End of Altar Girls?

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katherine2:
I have appointed myself pope of progressive Catholicism. Actually, not appointed, its a coup d’etate. 👋
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What is your definition of a “progressive Catholic?” I am curious.:confused:
 
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katherine2:
me. whatever I say is progresive!!!:cool:
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Why do you avoid the question? I truly want to know what a 'progressive Catholic" is. What does that phrase mean? Or is it devoid of meaning like other phases like liberal, conservative and enlightened?

Peace
 
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dennisknapp:
Why do you avoid the question? I truly want to know what a 'progressive Catholic" is. What does that phrase mean? Or is it devoid of meaning like other phases like liberal, conservative and enlightened?

Peace
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yes. its devoid of meaning.
 
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katherine2:
yes. its devoid of meaning.
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Then why did you us it? And why do I feel you are not giving me a straight answer? I asked a clear question. What’s the deal?
 
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Franciscum:
Originally Posted by jimmy
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Although that would be ideal, I do not think it is possible to both make it only available to boys and to make the age requirement seventh grade. There would be no where near enough altar servers.

I do agree that they should return it to being only boys. Like you said, it should foster an interest in the preisthood.

Yes, this had the added constraint of age, but rest assured those parishes that had 120 altar boys or Page/Knight of the Altar programs would have no problem is recruting and training more than anough altar boys. (I have to admit however the low number using this excuse. On a place like Beliefnet.com, this is by far the most common excuse offered.)

I think it bothers you a great deal to see some parishes still have such programs and levels of participation by boys. Look back on your posts. You have struggled to make your argument using the handicapped and everything else you can think of, all to no avail. You need to begin to realize that God and not sexism/feminism/progressivism are what’s important.
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What are you talking about? Did you even read my post? What posts am I supposed to go back and look over? I only posted one post in this thread. What does sexism/feminism/progressivism have to do with my post?

I have not tried to make much of an arguement. I made one statement that there would not be enough altar servers if you restricted it to 7th graders and older and only boys. I would be happy to see alot of participation in the mass by many boys, but that is not the way it currently is. I agree that only boys should be altar servers(read my post that you quoted), but I don’t think you should make the age requirement 7th grade.

If you are going to make accusations about me make sure they are founded on fact.
 
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katherine2:
Re read jimmy’s post. His is not a posting that says we should have altar girls because there are too few boys. He says we should not put an age restriction on boys because of need and then goes to post that "I do agree that they should return it to being only boys. Like you said, it should foster an interest in the preisthood."

So I will stand by my previous post. Not a singler poster here has said there wouldn’t be enough servers if girls did not serve, contrary to your false claim.
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Thankyou Katherine.
 
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rayne89:
I disagree we have a large group of altar boys (about 120). When the young ones serve (some look as young as 6) the older boys also serve with them. We have between 2 and 20 servers at at any given Mass. We average about 8 to 10 servers per Mass. I am absolutely amazed at the ability of the young ones to sit quiet and attentive away from their parents. The young ones usually hold the patens (I believe that’s what their called) under the chin of communicants as they recieve. They also ring the bells. We also have alter servers as old as 18, and many go off to seminary every year.

Our priest has told us he approaches every boy in the parish to serve if he feels the child is disciplined enough at whatever age the child may be.
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**May I ask what parish you belong to? It sounds wonderful…I have only seen a lot of servers at one Mass at a Tridentine Mass. It was wonderful to see the discipline and reverence these boys displayed. **
Catholic Heart
 
The Vatican will say anything now days not to appear to be against the Jews, the Moslems, the Orthodox, the Homosexuals, the Protestants, the Woman, the Hindus, the Buddhists, the Masons, Heretics as John Kerry (wont even deny him communion), Catholic politicians in favor of abortion…so to keep their streak alive and not be deemed anti"fill in the blank", hey altar girls are a great thing.

Wasnt it great reading in your history books when you were a kid and seeing the Catholic Crusader with a large Cross on his chest fighting off the Moores in Spain, the Moslems in the East and Middle East who were imprisioning our Faithful as they went to worship, and how we all united and could care less what the world really thought as we knew we were correct and fighting for our Lord and our right to practice our faith for once? Did it not make you proud to be a Catholic and that people like that only 500 yrs ago would be willing to die , as our Lord died for us, for the faith?

We have Christians in Iraq getting killed and in the Phillipeans and other East asian countries, India also, China also, and the Pope could care less, just as long as we play kissy kissy with these false religions.
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Catholic2003:
The Church has said that female altar servers are allowed. I guess this makes your argument false as well. You can’t have it both ways.
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The Holy Father is a man of compassion, tolerance, kindness, and love towards other Christians and those of other faiths. And for that we love him.
 
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Franciscum:
ALL the available altar serving positions should go to males for the purpose of fostering vocations.
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so what happens when there aren’t enough boys/men?

I live in Salt Lake City and I thought Mormons went overboard in their zeal to keep women in “their place”. Y’know, the women didn’t run from the Crucifixion–the Apostles did-- Peter, James, Andrew, Matthew,…
 
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deborah1313:
so what happens when there aren’t enough boys/men?
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This is the reason why girls are allowed, even though preference is given to boys.
 
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CrusaderNY:
The Vatican will say anything now days not to appear to be against the Jews, the Moslems, the Orthodox, the Homosexuals, the Protestants, the Woman, the Hindus, the Buddhists, the Masons, Heretics as John Kerry (wont even deny him communion), Catholic politicians in favor of abortion…so to keep their streak alive and not be deemed anti"fill in the blank", hey altar girls are a great thing.

Wasnt it great reading in your history books when you were a kid and seeing the Catholic Crusader with a large Cross on his chest fighting off the Moores in Spain, the Moslems in the East and Middle East who were imprisioning our Faithful as they went to worship, and how we all united and could care less what the world really thought as we knew we were correct and fighting for our Lord and our right to practice our faith for once? Did it not make you proud to be a Catholic and that people like that only 500 yrs ago would be willing to die , as our Lord died for us, for the faith?

We have Christians in Iraq getting killed and in the Phillipeans and other East asian countries, India also, China also, and the Pope could care less, just as long as we play kissy kissy with these false religions.
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What a vicious, untrue, vitriolic, dangerously false and totally unsubstantiated diatribe you begin this letter with. Do you realize whom you are damning with that sweeping, hate-filled statement?

Do you know that most of the Crusaders violently murdered all Moslems? Children, women, pregnant women, the old? Did you know they slaughtered soldiers who surrendered? Did you know that most Moslems did not? Did you know that they gave medical treatment to wounded crusaders and treated them decently? Did you know that a great many of the Crusaders were more interested in plunder and battle for battle’s sake?

Did you know that Pope John Paul II risked his life for the Church repeatedly during the Nazi occupation of Poland? Do you realize that Pope John Paul II is a bulwark against those who would destroy true orthodoxy? Do you realize that your condemnation of this saintly, reverent, faithful, faith-filled, humble, zealous vicar of Christ who wears the Shoes of the Fisherman and is devoted to the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of Our Lord Jesus, is scandalous libel worse than that of many anti-Catholics? How dare you!
 
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katolik:
what in the world are you talking about? The altar boy represents the congregation at the altar. D’uh
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I respectfully disagree. The faithful worship actively together around the altar - there is no more need for ‘representation’, except the priest, who represents Christ. Prior to Vatican II, the altar server represented the congregation, because the Mass was said in Latin (I know, I was a server for ten years - age 6 through 10 - from 1952 to 1962. Now the server simply assists the priest during Mass. By the way, I see no reason why girls shouldn’t be altar servers … the arguement that the role should be reserved for boys ‘because it fosters vocations for the priesthood’ is poor at best. After all, both boys (those interested in ordination or not) and girls (those interested in a religious vocation, or not) should be able to serve. The only requirement should be that altar servers are baptized Catholics. Personally I prefer adult lay persons (of either gender) to assist the priest as server. After all, the young ones have so little to do, they get bored and restless and start misbehaving in such a way as to cause distractions and disrespect to sacred actions happening in the Sanctuary.
 
deborah1313 said:
so what happens when there aren’t enough boys/men?

I live in Salt Lake City and I thought Mormons went overboard in their zeal to keep women in “their place”. Y’know, the women didn’t run from the Crucifixion–the Apostles did-- Peter, James, Andrew, Matthew,…
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You raise a hypothetical that is impossible (given sufficient effort in recruiting males) – outside of a convent chapel or women’s prison.

PS1: Did I just hear katherine2’s head explode?

PS2: How come I have never seen an altar girl/lady serving at St. Pete’s during televised Masses on EWTN?
 
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rcballi46:
I respectfully disagree. The faithful worship actively together around the altar - there is no more need for ‘representation’, except the priest, who represents Christ. Prior to Vatican II, the altar server represented the congregation, because the Mass was said in Latin (I know, I was a server for ten years - age 6 through 10 - from 1952 to 1962. Now the server simply assists the priest during Mass. By the way, I see no reason why girls shouldn’t be altar servers … the arguement that the role should be reserved for boys ‘because it fosters vocations for the priesthood’ is poor at best. After all, both boys (those interested in ordination or not) and girls (those interested in a religious vocation, or not) should be able to serve. The only requirement should be that altar servers are baptized Catholics. Personally I prefer adult lay persons (of either gender) to assist the priest as server. After all, the young ones have so little to do, they get bored and restless and start misbehaving in such a way as to cause distractions and disrespect to sacred actions happening in the Sanctuary.
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Says your opinion and nothing more…
 
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Franciscum:
You raise a hypothetical that is impossible (given sufficient effort in recruiting males) – outside of a convent chapel of women’s prison.
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Rome has left such judgements to the priest and bishops.

In a volutary organization, it is not a hypothetical impossibility (unless you abadon all logic) because no on could volunteer, and surely to few could volunteer.

Unless one is a priest or bishop, his judgement in this matter is irrelevant.
 
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deborah1313:
What a vicious, untrue, vitriolic, dangerously false and totally unsubstantiated diatribe you begin this letter with. Do you realize whom you are damning with that sweeping, hate-filled statement?

Do you know that most of the Crusaders violently murdered all Moslems? Children, women, pregnant women, the old? Did you know they slaughtered soldiers who surrendered? Did you know that most Moslems did not? Did you know that they gave medical treatment to wounded crusaders and treated them decently? Did you know that a great many of the Crusaders were more interested in plunder and battle for battle’s sake?

Did you know that Pope John Paul II risked his life for the Church repeatedly during the Nazi occupation of Poland? Do you realize that Pope John Paul II is a bulwark against those who would destroy true orthodoxy? Do you realize that your condemnation of this saintly, reverent, faithful, faith-filled, humble, zealous vicar of Christ who wears the Shoes of the Fisherman and is devoted to the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of Our Lord Jesus, is scandalous libel worse than that of many anti-Catholics? How dare you!
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Please don’t bring that sewage in here. I suggest Harry Crocker’s book (“Triumph:” I believe) on the history of the Church as a starting point in learning about the Church’s history…

While I don’t care for the posting you were replying to, I get darned tired of people unfairly vilifying the Church simply because they lack an understanding of history.
 
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