End of my rope--if the Church is no better than secular institutions then why bother?

  • Thread starter Thread starter jtavington
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Mboo said:
Doing the raprochement with Judas, is inappropriate in my opinion! Yes there was Judas, but on the other side there were virtues heroic practiced by all the other apostles. If the majority of bishops and priests who are not “Judas”, showed heroic virtues as all the other apostles did in the past, then believe me, one would observe a fervor faith generalized .
Click to expand...
Only 1 of remaining 11 apostles were with Jesus when he died so I wouldn’t call that heroic virtue
 
in my opinion, if this were the case then Catholics in general, and priests in particular in their great majority would have a holiness far above average. And such holiness would be noticed, as the holiness of the first Christians was noticed (“see how they love each other” said the pagans).
 
it was not yet confirmed Christians at the moment of passion
 
Last edited:
one is obliged to confess only when one has committed a mortal sin, otherwise one is in a state of grace and one can take communion with fruit.
We can very well spend a long time without committing mortal sins
 
Mboo said:
he was not yet confirmed Christians at the moment of passion
Click to expand...
Yeah they were. They were at the Last Supper weren’t they, and had been with Christ for years.

And speaking of the Last Supper and this idea that Holy Communion guarantees that one become holy, look at how His disciples scattered after receiving communion directly from Him. They scattered and ran, denied him, etc…, and as previously mentioned only one of them stood witness with His mother at His crucifixion. Yeah, they were works in progress alright, and one of them a devil. How is that different from today?
 
Last edited:
Mortal sin isn’t that hard to commit.
 
Last edited:
jtavington said:
The scandals of the last few months have finally taken their toll and I’m at a breaking point. I’ve heard again and again that priests commit child sexual abuse at a rate comparable or slightly lower than other organizations. That lots of organizations have had massive coverups. This is true. But if the Body of Christ is no better than the secular world, then how do we know that it is the Body of Christ? At least when I was a Protestant, I could claim that these monsters were not really Christians. I’ve never really had an emotional connection to my faith–I believe in Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular like I believe in the law of gravity so even my priest’s exhortation’s to take comfort in the Eucharist and my own prayers for faith seem to do nothing and I had no idea what to do now. Please help me.
Click to expand...
1Pt 1:63 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

1Pt 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: 13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
 
Last edited:
No, we are Christians confirmed when we received the sacrament of confirmation and the apostles had not yet had this sacrament, they had it on the day of Pentecost. I do not know how it happens in your parish, but in my country when an adult receives baptism the priest gives him at the same time confirmation, and the Eucharist.
 
Last edited:
Nigel7 said:
Yeah, they were works in progress alright, and one of them a devil. How is that different from today?
Click to expand...
I have already told you, the apostles had not received confirmation, whereas today all priests and bishops are confirmed, and in my country all adult Christians (ie from 7 years old ) are confirmed, for example I got my confirmation at 8 years old.
And if you find that someone who communicates every day for 10 years, 20 years and more should not have a holiness above the common, I think it is abnormal, somewhere there is a serious problem.
 
I do not believe, the rich young man who asked Jesus how go to Heaven, had never committed mortal sins since his youth
 
Mboo said:
And if you find that someone who communicates every day for 10 years, 20 years and more should not have a holiness above the common, I think it is abnormal, somewhere there is a serious problem.
Click to expand...
We agree. The problem is those few who aren’t living according to the faith, but deceive the flock and are living in sacrilege. Many of these holding high offices, apparently. A serious problem indeed.
 
Last edited:
I do not speak particularly of pedophile priests, but from my point of view, the practicing Christian (whose priests are one) should have a virtuous life far above the average, and such a virtuous life is remarkable, as there was the case for the first Christians
Is this the case nowadays? may be yes, but I’m not too convinced
 
@Mboo Agreed.

People have always been people though, and that includes Christians among that fallen human race. People were never angels, including most ‘Christians’ then, and certainly now.
 
Last edited:
Zurf said:
So, let’s just finish this nonsense. You have no evidence for your claim. And you have no courage to admit that. As expected, of course.
Click to expand...
So we fools have no evidence to satisfy you, and are cowardly fools at that, and you do not believe, and think it’s all nonsense.

Yet here you are, wasting a huge amount of time and effort with what you believe is nonsense.
Can you provide us evidence as to why your beliefs should be considered?
A look in the mirror might be in order for you.
 
Last edited:
www.ncregister.com

Archbishop Sheen’s Warning of a Crisis in Christendom

With a saintly long-ranging spiritual vision, Ven. Fulton J. Sheen saw the roots of today’s crisis firmly planted and growing in 1974, but he gave us an antidote.
www.ncregister.com www.ncregister.com

Archbishop Sheen’s warning

The good bishop noted we were living in the fourth 500-year period of Church history, explaining “the Church is not a continuing thing — it dies and rises again. It proceeds on the principle of Christ himself as priest and victim.

“And there comes the defeat, the seeming decay, we are put in the grave, and then we rise again. We have had four deaths in our Christian history.”

First Three Falls and Rises The first time the Church was in dire straits was in the fall of Rome, the first 500-year period. It had a rebirth when great saint missionaries like Augustine in England and Patrick in Ireland spread the faith.

Then came a second “decay” around the year 1,000 with the Moslem invasions and the split of the Church with a schism in Constantinople. “It seemed to be the end of everything. And then we came to life again,” Sheen said.

In the third 500-year period he said the Church became “rotten” as nuns and priests were defecting. Then came the reformers who “almost always reform the wrong things. And they began reforming the faith, and there was nothing wrong with faith — it was the morals that needed to be reformed. It’s not renewal — it’s really a moral reformation that is needed today, too.” Remember, that was 44 years ago.

All the more so in our day. On just one point, how many listened to, and took to heart, Humanae Vitae ? Even theologians defected from it.

After that period the Church came to life again, Sheen said. “And now we’re at the fourth period, and we’re rotting — we’re spoiled — no great zeal, no great learning, no great fire.” Yet there’s hope because “anyone who knows history is not particularly disturbed.”

Church’s Enemies “But the enemy in each of the 500-year periods has been separate and distinct,” he continued. “We had, and here I am speaking generally of enemies within the Church, in the first 500 years, false doctrine centering around the person of Christ…the Christological heresies. So the Church was just split open, and that was one of the reasons that made it possible for the Moslems to develop.”

The next period saw attacks on the head of the Church, leading to the Eastern Church breaking away.

By the 16th century the attack was on “the body of Christ, the mystical body, the Church.” It was Reformation time. Today’s 4th Enemy “Our enemy today is the world — the spirit of the world,” Sheen made clear.

“Today we have to conform to the world or we’re branded” he said. Must be politically correct. “Our Lord said, I have taken you out of the world . We say, ‘No we have to win the world, and to win it you have to be one with it.
 
Last edited:
“Eucharistic Miracles”

https://www.amazon.com/Eucharistic-Miracles-Catalogue-International-Exhibition/dp/1931101027

This book contains over 100 brief accounts of Eucharistic Miracles around the world. It has forwards by Cardinal Raymond Burke, Msgr. Martinelli and Fr. John Hardon, which give catechetical explanations into the Church’s teaching on these miracles and private revelations. From there the book is divided into sections based on country.

This book is not an apologetical work; for those looking for documentation and sources should probably refer to Joan Carroll Cruz’s book on Eucharistic Miracles, which deals with specific cases more in depth. The book here gives only a page or two to each miracle, containing brief descriptions and very helpful pictures. These stories were presented as an Exhibition, each having its own posterboard, which have been condensed to book format. In the process of condensing the book, some of the photos are a bit too small to see, and others are quite fuzzy, which points to a bit of poor editing. Other than that, this book is an excellent resource to see how many wonderful ways Our Lord has given Himself to us in the Eucharist!

https://www.amazon.com/Eucharistic-..._rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=N5PDZW6CN41QPQBY3T6T

In her book , Eucharistic Miracles, Joan Carroll Cruz documents 36 such miracles which occurred from 800 AD to the present day. This book tells of consecrated Hosts which have visibly turned to human flesh, have bled, levitated, and which have become hard as flint when received by a person in mortal sin. It details the official investigations that have been made into these miracles by scientists throughout the world, and where some can still be venerated today. Eucharistic Miracles also recounts miraculous Eucharistic phenomena in the lives of saints: saints who lived with only the Eucharist for sustenance, received Communication miraculously, or experienced raptures, ecstasies, levitations, visions, locutions, and more.

Pictures and photographs of the miracles, the churches they took place in, and the people involved are also included, adding the final touch to a comprehensive, detailed, and extraordinary overview of these miraculous happenings.

Eucharistic Miracles is a superb compilation of God’s visible testimony of the truth of the Catholic Faith, proving the reality of one of its loftiest mysteries — the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist.
 
Last edited:
What troubles me is since the Boston abuse scandal nothing has changed . The church needs to be pro active in protecting people from predators. People are sinners but the church needs be above reproach if it is to have credibility. The sin rate in the church should be no where near the World.

Parents and grandparents need to be vigilant to protect their loved ones until this is resolved.
 
I get ya… I’d already been considering returning to the Episcopal Church after 10 years as a Catholic which only saw my faith deteriorate over reasons that had nothing to do with the scandals (though they didn’t help)… but now I feel if I stay, going to church where nobody talks about it, everyone acts as if nothing is different, as if that news is “out there”… I feel I’m enabling this culture, saying it’s ok, I’ll be a nice little Catholic no matter what happens… Well no. Not happening. That is saying to the victims, church life goes on in spite of you… I’m leaving for other reasons but this is the catalyst to make me say enough is enough.
 
Last edited:
jericho777 said:
What troubles me is since the Boston abuse scandal nothing has changed . The church needs to be pro active in protecting people from predators.
Click to expand...
With all due respect, you’re very mistaken on that point. Since the Boston scandal broke, the Church in America has done a lot ! They commissioned the John Jay report to gain insights on the situation (you can find the report at the USCCB site), and they met to discuss what standards and procedures should be instituted to address any future instances of claims of abuse. What resulted from these meetings is what’s commonly called the “Dallas Charter”. Among other things, it instituted a set of procedures for screening volunteers, mandated training for Church employees and volunteers (so that they could recognize abuse when it occurred), set policies for reporting abuse, and instituted processes for screening prospective seminarians. If memory serves, it also set up procedures for how dioceses would deal with allegations of abuse.

Much has been accomplished in the Church in America over the past 16 years. I don’t want to make the claim that the problem has been completely resolved, but we are well on the way to addressing the issue. We have to continue our diligence, though, to ensure that we minimize the possibility of future abuse, and also recognize and report it when it does occur.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top