End times current or near current?

[mikekle]

At death, we are judged. We know at that time whether we will be in heaven, or hell for all eternity, or temporarily in purgatory (which is a gurantee of heaven after purification). After death of the body, There is no waiting for the soul for the big end of the world event to find out what the conclusion is. The literal end of the world event could be tomorrow or a billion years from now. When THAT day occurs,

• all the dead (bodies) who have ever lived, rise,
• souls that are in heaven or hell, are reunited with their resurrected bodies in heaven or hell.
• souls in purgatory at that time, are then in heaven with their resurrected body, and purgatory ceases to exist.

So a person who dies before the second coming actually stands before God twice? Once at their death and once at the time when everyone is judged? This would imply that God will send some of those previously in hell to heaven, otherwise, why would 2 judgements be needed?

However it is my opinion that anyone who dies, has the chance to ask God for forgiveness, I do not believe once we die, our options end, as some believe. If that were true, it would mean God ONLY loves us while we are alive on earth and after we die, we no longer are important to him. Our souls are eternal anyway, our bodies are essentially just ‘meat suits’ for our souls, so the soul/spirit is the portion that goes before God, and it is said Gods love is eternal…which means death means nothing in these regards, one could ask Gods forgiveness at ANY time and he would accept, as long as the request is sincere.

 

[JamesTheJust]

So a person who dies before the second coming actually stands before God twice? Once at their death and once at the time when everyone is judged? This would imply that God will send some of those previously in hell to heaven, otherwise, why would 2 judgements be needed?

However it is my opinion that anyone who dies, has the chance to ask God for forgiveness, I do not believe once we die, our options end, as some believe. If that were true, it would mean God ONLY loves us while we are alive on earth and after we die, we no longer are important to him. Our souls are eternal anyway, our bodies are essentially just ‘meat suits’ for our souls, so the soul/spirit is the portion that goes before God, and it is said Gods love is eternal…which means death means nothing in these regards, one could ask Gods forgiveness at ANY time and he would accept, as long as the request is sincere.

As Verbum says, the first judgement is “private” the second “public”, at the second, final judgement, all will know who was saved and who was damned.

Also, we will be united with our resurrected bodies, and those in Heaven will populate the New Earth.

 

[spina1953]

It seems to me that when one dies, that is the imediate judgment as to whether or not one goes to heaven or hell, or purgutory. When the final judgment comes those in heaven will not be judged again as they are in heaven and those in hell likewise will not be judged again. Only those who are still alive at the final judgment when Christ returns will either inter heaven or hell as the case maybe, along with their bodies will be the ones who will be judged at that time of Christs return. Those who are already either in heaven or hell or purgatory will unite with their bodies. At least that is my understanding.

 

[steve_b]

So a person who dies before the second coming actually stands before God twice? Once at their death and once at the time when everyone is judged? This would imply that God will send some of those previously in hell to heaven, otherwise, why would 2 judgements be needed?

The dead have already been judged at their death. They are Not judged twice. The 2nd coming, is the resurrection of all the dead who have ever lived, + the assembly of all those still alive at the 2nd coming.

Souls in heaven or hell at the 2nd coming, won’t be rejudged. There is no chance of a reversal of judgement for them at the 2nd coming. These souls are given their resurrected bodies in either heaven or hell. Purgatory ceases to exist.

Those still alive at the 2nd coming, are judged and seperated as Matthew 25:31-46 shows.
m:

However it is my opinion that anyone who dies, has the chance to ask God for forgiveness, I do not believe once we die, our options end, as some believe. If that were true, it would mean God ONLY loves us while we are alive on earth and after we die, we no longer are important to him. Our souls are eternal anyway, our bodies are essentially just ‘meat suits’ for our souls, so the soul/spirit is the portion that goes before God, and it is said Gods love is eternal…which means death means nothing in these regards, one could ask Gods forgiveness at ANY time and he would accept, as long as the request is sincere.

Here’s 2 examples

1. 
   ]Galatians 5:19-21 look at the sins mentioned. Then look at the consequences for those sins if one dies in them. This warning and consequence isn’t coming from just Paul. The Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write that. Which means that warning and consequence ultimately came from Jesus John 16:12-15 so Jesus the judge, is telling us in advance, through the HS, through Paul, how He will judge those sins if one dies in them. The soul won’t be going to heaven. I personally won’t question that warning or the consequence. But that’s just me
   ]Speaking of love. God loves us more than we can possibly imagine, but He qualifies how He judges our love for Him. John 14:15 , **John 14:23-24
   
   On this side of eternity, we have ample opportunity to ask Him for His forgiveness & mercy. Once a person dies in the flesh, this life is over, the next life begins.
   
   It’s like the example of those bridesmaids who didn’t think ahead, and got caught because they were not prepared when the groom came. Always be prepared. No need to make that warning if it means nothing. Matthew 25:1-13

 

[Kittylover777]

Does anyone remember all of the dire predictions for the Millenium? Wha’ hoppen to all of the predictors.
This “End Times” thing seems to be the product of “Fire and Brimstone” preachers who earn their livings by scaring the living poo out of their congregations. I do not know of any Clergyman of prominence, Protestent or othewise, who has promulgated this latest fad. I predict the same thing will happen for all of these “End Times” people that happened to the Millenium predictors.
The danger of all of this is that when the End Times does happen, the mass of the people will not believe it (to the peril of their souls), thinking that it is just the blather of charlatans.

I so agree. Many Fundamentalists seem to be obsessed with the End Times so much that, I suspect, that if they find a spider in their bath tub they see it as a sure sign of the imminent Apocalypse!!! I remember one such board where when the Israeli/Lebanon conflict was going on during the Summer of 2006 they were convinced that World War 3 was about to break out at any second and they would all be Raptured then. Then when the conflict ended they were saying that Iran was about to nuke Israel or the US or both then it would lead to WW3/Rapture blah blah blah. Of course the date for the supposed Iran nuke came and went without anything out of the ordinary happening which I suspect was a bit of a disappointment to many Fundies. It sounds silly now but I was really scared back then and as I already struggle with anxiety this sort of thing does not help my mental health at all. Plus if you visit YouTube you will find any number of videos made by supposed prophets/prophetesses claiming the Lord told them the Rapture is about to happen. Many of these videos were made some years back I may add. If I had a £ for every time I heard somebody say The End is Nigh I 'd be one rich woman!!! I suspect a lot of it is attention seeking and/or the desire to control people by putting them in a state of fear. Having said that I’m inclined to believe we are not far off the Lord’s Return but only He knows when that will be.

 

[mikekle]

*]Speaking of love. God loves us more than we can possibly imagine, but He qualifies how He judges our love for Him.

Well…that is not true love then, it would be similar to a person determining ‘how much’ they will love, based on the other persons level of feeling for them, Im sorry, but that shows a jealous, selfish person LOL

Unlike a parents love for their child, that is TRULY eternal and true love, as the parent loves their children more than anything else, NO MATTER how the child feels about them, and also will ALWAYS love them, no matter if they are killers, rapists, child molesters, etc…point is, their love does not change, not even upon their death, they still love them the same amount.

If what you say is true, then it seems to me, Gods love really only applies to those who live life with him in it, or else they risk ending up in hell, so a person who lives life without God in it only has Gods love for the time they are alive and once they die, that love is over and done with, and God will no longer accept anyone asking forgiveness…what kind of God is this? LOL

 

[mikekle]

I so agree. Many Fundamentalists seem to be obsessed with the End Times so much that, I suspect, that if they find a spider in their bath tub they see it as a sure sign of the imminent Apocalypse!!! I remember one such board where when the Israeli/Lebanon conflict was going on during the Summer of 2006 they were convinced that World War 3 was about to break out at any second and they would all be Raptured then. Then when the conflict ended they were saying that Iran was about to nuke Israel or the US or both then it would lead to WW3/Rapture blah blah blah. Of course the date for the supposed Iran nuke came and went without anything out of the ordinary happening which I suspect was a bit of a disappointment to many Fundies. It sounds silly now but I was really scared back then and as I already struggle with anxiety this sort of thing does not help my mental health at all. Plus if you visit YouTube you will find any number of videos made by supposed prophets/prophetesses claiming the Lord told them the Rapture is about to happen. Many of these videos were made some years back I may add. If I had a £ for every time I heard somebody say The End is Nigh I 'd be one rich woman!!! I suspect a lot of it is attention seeking and/or the desire to control people by putting them in a state of fear. Having said that I’m inclined to believe we are not far off the Lord’s Return but only He knows when that will be.

How do you explain the bible verses that tell mankind exactly what to look for in terms of world events, when we will know when the end is getting close? If you look at all these, there are only a few that our society has not reached yet, this is not coming from someones opinion, this is directly from the bible itself.

If you are not familiar with these warnings,I can try to find a list of them and post here, although Im fairly sure they are posted somewhere in one of these threads.

 

[thistle]

How do you explain the bible verses that tell mankind exactly what to look for in terms of world events, when we will know when the end is getting close? If you look at all these, there are only a few that our society has not reached yet, this is not coming from someones opinion, this is directly from the bible itself.

If you are not familiar with these warnings,I can try to find a list of them and post here, although Im fairly sure they are posted somewhere in one of these threads.

There is nothing happening today that hasn’t taken place over the past 2000 years.

 

[spina1953]

I became interested and started reading about the end of the world in the mid 1960’s. I read Hal Lindsey’s the late great planet earth as well as a great many other books. I also read the left behind books. What they all have in comon is that for thousands of years people have been predicting the worlds end and nothing has so far happened. The years 200,380,838,1000,1533, 1844, 1914, 1988, and 2000 are all years where predictions made concerning the end of the world was predicted and nothing happened. While I found them to be in some way fasinating in the end I could not believe what they all had written about the end of the world. It all seemed to me to be sci-fi and nothing more. Yet, the problem is that none is really Bibical but just false interpretations and spectulations being propugated and promulated to scare others into believing something that is not true, based on personal interprettions and personal revelations. Jesus said that terible things like wars etc. would happen and take place before the world ends and that it is not yet the end. These things have been happening since time imortal and will continue, but as to when the world will end no one knows. Why worry about what might happen? or what could happen? Is it not better to live as Jesus taught than to worry about things that may never happen in the way some people with big imaginations try to convience us of? Is it not better to believe what the Catholic Church teaches then worry about what not be? Ithink so. My advice is not to believe in all these end of the world prediction and believe in what the Catholic Church teaches.

 

[Kittylover777]

How do you explain the bible verses that tell mankind exactly what to look for in terms of world events, when we will know when the end is getting close? If you look at all these, there are only a few that our society has not reached yet, this is not coming from someones opinion, this is directly from the bible itself.

If you are not familiar with these warnings,I can try to find a list of them and post here, although Im fairly sure they are posted somewhere in one of these threads.

FYI I know the Bible pretty well and am familiar with all those signs of the End prophesied there so, thanks but no thanks. Maybe I didn’t make myself clear in my post but what I was criticising was not belief that the End is near. In fact, like I said, there seems to be a lot of things happening now that the Bible prophesied would happen so you’ll get no argument from me there. What my post was dealing with was the unhealthy obsession some Fundamentalists have with the End Times. Again there is nothing wrong with being interested in Eschatology, far from it but while interest is good obsession is IMHO unhealthy. Yes I know Jesus told us to be ready for His Return but I don’t believe He meant trying to fit every little thing you see in the news into the Book of Revelation!!! I’ve had it up to here with that sort of thing and quite frankly it has turned me off a lot. So let’s leave it at that .:hug1:

 

[steve_b]

Well…that is not true love then, it would be similar to a person determining ‘how much’ they will love, based on the other persons level of feeling for them, Im sorry, but that shows a jealous, selfish person LOL

Unlike a parents love for their child, that is TRULY eternal and true love, as the parent loves their children more than anything else, NO MATTER how the child feels about them, and also will ALWAYS love them, no matter if they are killers, rapists, child molesters, etc…point is, their love does not change, not even upon their death, they still love them the same amount.

If what you say is true, then it seems to me, Gods love really only applies to those who live life with him in it, or else they risk ending up in hell, so a person who lives life without God in it only has Gods love for the time they are alive and once they die, that love is over and done with, and God will no longer accept anyone asking forgiveness…what kind of God is this? LOL

As scripture says nothing can separate us from the love of God Romans 8:38-39 . Scripture does NOT say nothing can separate us from God. Do you see the difference in the 2 statements?

And God tells us how we are to love Him. John 14:15** , **John 14:23-24 . It can’t be just a said love.

If one chooses not to obey God, and dies in that state, where’s the argument against consequences for that? The warnings are there. It’s not like God blind sides a person at the end.

 

[Kittylover777]

Mikele I know the Bible pretty well and am familiar with all those signs of the End prophesied there. Maybe I didn’t make myself clear in my post but what I was criticising was not belief that the End is near. In fact, like I said, there seems to be a lot of things happening now that the Bible prophesied would happen so you’ll get no argument from me there. What my post was dealing with was the unhealthy obsession some Fundamentalists have with the End Times. Again there is nothing wrong with being interested in Eschatology, far from it but while interest is good obsession is IMHO unhealthy. Yes I know Jesus told us to be ready for His Return but I don’t believe He meant trying to fit every little thing you see in the news into the Book of Revelation!!! Of course we all should be ready to meet the Lord at any time because even if He doesn’t return in our lifetime none of us are guaranteed another day on this earth.:getholy:

 

[Kittylover777]

Btw everyone sorry if I sound a bit harsh and angry but I have had some bad experiences with Fundamentalist Christians who talk constantly about the End Times so it is a bit of a sore subject for me.:coolinoff:

 

[thistle]

Btw everyone sorry if I sound a bit harsh and angry but I have had some bad experiences with Fundamentalist Christians who talk constantly about the End Times so it is a bit of a sore subject for me.:coolinoff:

Don’t worry. I know what you mean.

 

[brierpatch1974]

Am I wrong in my thinking? I believe thinking about or worrying about the end of time is pointless. We should be ready everyday because we have no idea if it is our last. The final end is irrelevant. The end could be next week but that doesn’t mean we couldn’t die today before it even happens. Prepare for personal end everyday and not worry about the end of everything. Why worry about what you can not change to begin with?

 

[tafan]

I may have missed it, but I do not believe the question in the thread title has been answered.

The Church teaches that we are definitively in the end times. The end times started when the last apostle died. The will be no future divine revelation, no future event speperating “times” in the salvation history. We are in the end times and are waiting for the second coming on the last day.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

John Paul II said that the “gospel would be preached to all nations” sometime in this the Third millenium which has to happen before the end.

I DO think that the end will come before the year 3,000 but I could be wrong.

The main thing is we should live each day like it will be our last. We should also live each day like the second coming of Christ will be this very day.

In the creed it says "We look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come.

So “work out your salvation with fear and trembling” but also “look forward to the life of the world to come”.

It is OK to study eschatology but it should be a small part of what we study if we aren’t seminary professors teaching the subject.

We should love the Lord with our entire minds–a small part of that will be learning about the end times.

Maranatha! Come Lord Jesus!

 

[tafan]

There are three things which must occur before the second coming:

1. the Gospel must be preached to all nations
2. the Jews must make a final decision if acceptance of Jesus
3. the Church must pass through a great tribulation

 

[livingwordunity]

There is nothing happening today that hasn’t taken place over the past 2000 years.

A key characteristic of the End Times events is that they are global. And, I personally believe that the End Times events have been taking place one by one over a span of hundreds of years and that now most of these events have taken place. When St. Paul says that Jesus’ Second Coming will come like a thief in the night he’s talking about how it will be a total shock to the non-believers. This could also just as well be true for the lukewarm among Christians. But a couple of verses after, St. Paul contrasts that by saying about the righteous, “but you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief.” (1 Thess 5:4). We can’t know for sure the exact time such as day, month, year, or decade that Jesus’ Second Coming will happen. But Jesus suggests that those who know the prophecies in Sacred Scripture can tell when the time could be drawing near. “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.” (Matt. 24:32-33)

There is an unprecedented global event relating to wars that changed the world and that can’t be undone by anything less than the Second Coming of Christ. That is the invention and utilization of the nuclear bomb. This event was so significant that the history of mankind can be divided based on it to before the bomb and after. And when in human history was homosexuality and abortion aggressively promoted on a global scale to the extent that it is today? What other time in human history was homosexuality called ‘marriage’? The only powerful nation not going along with the ‘gay’ lobby is Russia. But even they are feeling the pressure from all the other big player countries. All the rest of the most powerful nations on earth are aggressively pushing the ‘gay’ lobby agenda in their own countries while trying to pressure all other countries to accept it. Homosexuality has existed since the time of Sodom and Gomorrah. But it wasn’t global, and it wasn’t called ‘marriage’ until now.

End times will bring greater persecution to Christians, Pope says

These worldly powers which seek to destroy God, noted the Pope, also manifest in the contemporary desire to keep religion as “a private thing,” alluding to the fact that today many religious symbols have become taboo.

“You must obey the orders which come from worldly powers. You can do many things, beautiful things, but not adore God. Worship is prohibited. This is at the center of the end of time.”

Once we “reach the fullness of this pagan attitude,” the Pope continued, “then yes, he will come…’ truly the Son of Man will come in a cloud with great power and glory.’”

And from our previous Pope:

Pope Benedict XVI, 11 October 2010

And there is also a final word in Psalm 81, “movebuntur omnia fundamenta terrae” (Ps 81: 5), the foundations of the earth are shaken. We see this today, with the climatic problems, how the foundations of the earth are shaken, how they are threatened by our behavior. The external foundations are shaken because the internal foundations are shaken, the moral and religious foundations, the faith that follows the right way of living. And we know that faith is the foundation, and, undoubtedly, the foundations of the earth cannot be shaken if they remain close to the faith, to true wisdom.

Then the Psalm says: “Arise, God, judge the world” (Ps 81: 8). Thus we say to the Lord: “Arise at this moment, take the world in your hands, protect your Church, protect humanity, protect the earth”. And we once again entrust ourselves to the Mother of God, Mary, and pray: “You, the great believer, you who have opened the earth to the heavens, help us, open the doors today as well, that truth may win, the will of God, which is the true good, the true salvation of the world”. Amen.

 

[mikekle]

A key characteristic of the End Times events is that they are global. And, I personally believe that the End Times events have been taking place one by one over a span of hundreds of years and that now most of these events have taken place. When St. Paul says that Jesus’ Second Coming will come like a thief in the night he’s talking about how it will be a total shock to the non-believers. This could also just as well be true for the lukewarm among Christians. But a couple of verses after, St. Paul contrasts that by saying about the righteous, “but you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief.” (1 Thess 5:4). We can’t know for sure the exact time such as day, month, year, or decade that Jesus’ Second Coming will happen. But Jesus suggests that those who know the prophecies in Sacred Scripture can tell when the time could be drawing near. “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.” (Matt. 24:32-33)

There is an unprecedented global event relating to wars that changed the world and that can’t be undone by anything less than the Second Coming of Christ. That is the invention and utilization of the nuclear bomb. This event was so significant that the history of mankind can be divided based on it to before the bomb and after. And when in human history was homosexuality and abortion aggressively promoted on a global scale to the extent that it is today? What other time in human history was homosexuality called ‘marriage’? The only powerful nation not going along with the ‘gay’ lobby is Russia. But even they are feeling the pressure from all the other big player countries. All the rest of the most powerful nations on earth are aggressively pushing the ‘gay’ lobby agenda in their own countries while trying to pressure all other countries to accept it. Homosexuality has existed since the time of Sodom and Gomorrah. But it wasn’t global, and it wasn’t called ‘marriage’ until now.

End times will bring greater persecution to Christians, Pope says

And from our previous Pope:

Pope Benedict XVI, 11 October 2010

Very good post, good points!

With all these things going on, I simply cannot understand why the catholic church is not seeing this??? It seems when the second coming does happen, they will be in equal shock as the non-believers are!