End Times Speculation XXIII (ver. 2.0)

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My understanding is that the Great Monarch will begin his rule by conquest. Europe will be in its worst crisis ever (worse then the fall of the Roman Empire or the pleasure), and the Great Monarch will come and restore order. So it is really independent from the current political system.
 
What of Saint Malachi’s prophecy of the last Pope’s? The last one is said to be Peter the Roman. any idea on who this is?
I would suggest that it would be better to refer to this as “The Prophecy of the Popes” since it has been proven that St. Malachi did not write it. The attribution of the Prophecy to him was a subterfuge by its actual author, Fr. Arnold Wion for the purpose of avoiding the attention of the Roman Inquisition.

In my opinion the phrase, "Petrus Romanus, qui pascet oves . … " is a reference to St. Peter who, after the passing of the two present Popes, will be resurrected to serve once again as Bishop of Rome. His bones were discovered buried underneath the Vatican and are now displayed there.
 
The unlikely fulfillment of the motto, “Religio depopulata,”(1914-1921) for one thing. The referencing of different mottoes by Popes Pius X, Pius XII, and Benedict XVI for another.
 
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This article uses the edited version of the motto list that was published by Fr. Messingham in 1624 which contains only 112 mottoes. Fr. Arnold Wion’s list published in 1595 in the LIGNUM VITAE has 113 papal mottoes. Of course the prophecy is invalid based on the list of 112 because that would cast Pope Francis as Petrus Romanus, an idea that makes no sense.

The article says the the mottoes for popes prior to 1590 are forgeries. Yes, we know that. It was proved by Fr. M.J. O’Brien’s research which was published in 1880. Fr. O’Brien found that the list of popes in Wion’s LIGNUM VITAE corresponded “a little too closely” to a papal history published by Panvinius in 1557. Every error that Panvinius made was mirrored in Wion’s list of popes, so the prophecy could not have been written prior to 1557. That fact together with the fact that Fr. Wion had a political motivation for making a motto tor the 1590 papal election indicates that Fr. Wion himself was the author. The hidden benefit here is that we now know that we have what many analysts wanted to see: the original version of the prophecy, and that version is there for all to see in the LIGNUM VITAE, book II, pages 307 to 311.

The question is, “Are the mottoes from 1590 onward valid?” Here it makes no sense to compare the accuracy of the post 1590 mottoes to the ones that are known to have been made after the fact. Of course these would be more accurate. Rather we should look for an unlikely motto (such as “Religio depopulata”) and see if it has been fulfilled.

The article tries to say that a motto can only apply directly to a pope and not to an event that occurred during that pope’s reign. But that idea is belied by the motto for Francis which specifically states: “He will reign in the final persection of the Holy Roman Church.” So a motto can apply to what is happening during a pope’s reign. Motto number 113 for Petrus Romanus is much the same.

The article accuses the list of mottoes as " . .trying to predict the time of the end…" But the mottoes do not point to any specific day or even year. They simply say that the church will have only one more pope after Francis.

In his article Mr. Akins talks about Pope Pius XII and his associated motto, “Pastor angelicus,” but he studiously avoids mentioning the Pope’s autobiographical film and its title of “Pastor Angelicus.” Pius XII’s choice of his Prophecy of the Popes motto constitutes a tacit endorsement. Furthermore, the list of mottoes occurred in a book that was written by a Benedictine monk and approved for publication by the Catholic Church. And in over 400 years time the Church has never disavowed
The article makes the rediculous and desperate claim that the motto “Religio depopulata” is not an indication of validity, but rather is an unfulfilled motto. In 1880 Fr. O’Brien (a critic) wrote about Religio depopulata: “Troubled times are foretold by this. The blood of the martyrs will flow.” One wonders that, if Fr. O’Brien had lived to see the carnage of WW I and the rise of communism, he would have taken a different view of the prophecy.
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I have discussed the many shortcomings of Mr. Akins’ article on the Prophecy of the Popes. He does not even seem to know that Pope Pius XII chose his motto of “Pastor Angelicus” for the title of his autobiographical film in 1942.
 
  1. That’s just one pope out of the list.
  2. and has nothing to do with the questions about it’s origin.
I don’t think this thread should be turned into a debate about this list (there have been plenty of those). But I have the right to say it should not be taken as gospel.
 
  1. That’s just one pope out of the list.
  2. and has nothing to do with the questions about it’s origin.
I don’t think this thread should be turned into a debate about this list (there have been plenty of those). But I have the right to say it should not be taken as gospel.
No one is saying that The Prophecy of the Popes should be taken as Gospel. It is controversial and subject to debate. But It should not simply be dismissed out of hand on invalid arguments as Mr. Akins seems to want to do.

The question about its origin has been conclusively answered (did you even bother to read my previous post about this?) Fr. Arnold Wion, a Benedictine monk wrote the list of mottoes sometime after 1557. St Malachy had absolutely nothing to do with it.

You say “That’s just one Pope out of the list,” referring, I assume to Pope Pius XII and his motto of “Pastor angelicus.” If so, you missed the point completely, and that point is not that the motto “Pastor angelicus” applied in any particular way to Pius XII, but that Pius XII chose his Prophecy of the Popes motto for the title of his autobiographical film on 1943. That choice on his part constitutes a tacit endorsement of the Prophecy by a Catholic Pope.
 
Just want to throw this link out there. It’s from the blog “A Catholic Jew Pontificates”.

Mind you, the content of that link consititutes an unapproved apparition, so we can’t discuss details here, but I thought some of you might find it interesting. In addition, as a convert from Judaism with an interest in Jewish mysticism, I’ve found he frequently has insights into Catholic teaching, particularly Mariology, that I find very interesting.
 
I used to live in Iowa City, the home of the University of Iowa and also the home of Iowa’s longest running abortion clinic. When I was a student there I went to a Thursday night mass at the Catholic Student Center, and in the middle of the homily some drunk cursed and threw a can of beer at the building. In that place where there was so much anti-Catholic feeling, the church a block away from the CSC had confession every Saturday from 9:30 to 11. During that period, there was ALWAYS someone waiting in line. Sometimes the priest had to send someone over to the rectory to get another priest so both confessionals were operating. If for some reason I couldn’t make it Sat. morning, I’d go across town to another church where confessions were held at 3PM and Mass at 4. I soon learned that if I didn’t get there by 2 I may not get inside the confessional before the priest had to stop hearing confessions so he could prepare for Mass.
I know this post is from quite awhile ago, but I just saw it and couldn’t help but reply at how odd it is that I knew exactly all the places you spoke of…the Catholic student center always struck me the wrong way too. Is it normal to have no kneelers and a large projection screen in front of the church? And the church where confession was from 9:30 to 11…is that St. Mary’s you’re talking about? Most beautiful church I’ve ever been to. Went to confession there awhile ago and was surprised at the amount of reverence I felt in that church, from the priest, the awe inspiring statues, architecture, and the students.
 
I know this post is from quite awhile ago, but I just saw it and couldn’t help but reply at how odd it is that I knew exactly all the places you spoke of…the Catholic student center always struck me the wrong way too. Is it normal to have no kneelers and a large projection screen in front of the church? And the church where confession was from 9:30 to 11…is that St. Mary’s you’re talking about? Most beautiful church I’ve ever been to. Went to confession there awhile ago and was surprised at the amount of reverence I felt in that church, from the priest, the awe inspiring statues, architecture, and the students.
The Newman Center is just that – a center for Catholic students. They weren’t going to make something like a chapel, not with St. Mary’s just two blocks away. It’s designed to be multipurpose, as both a space for concerts and lectures, and a space for Mass. For that reason the tabernacle is in an adjoining room, which has space for people to sit and pray.
 
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undead_rat:
The question about its origin has been conclusively answered (did you even bother to read my previous post about this?)
I can read quite well, thank you.
Then please allow me to refer you to Fr. M.J. O’Brien’s well researched analysis:

AN HISTORICAL AND CRITICAL ACCOUNT OF THE S0-CALLED PROPHECY OF ST. MALACHY

Published in 1880, this treatise proves that the list of mottoes could not have been written prior to 1557. O’Brien doesn’t point his finger at Fr. Wion as the author, but I think that he is just being reluctant to indict a fellow priest on the count of falsely attributing a prophecy to St. Malachy.

Since it was Fr. Wion who claimed to have “discovered” the list of mottoes, and since Fr. Wion had a known political motive in noising these mottoes around the Vatican prior to the 1590 papal election, it seems more than likely to me that he was the actual author. That supposition means that the list published in the LIGNUM VITAE in 1595 is the original list. Therefore, we do not need to hunt for or wonder about any “original” list. This is it.

And that leads to to conclusion that it is Fr. Wion’s list of 113 mottoes that we should go by in attempting to analyze this prophecy since it is the original. But Mr. Akins (and everyone else for that matter) attempts to understand the using the edited version that was published by Fr. Thomas Messingham in 1624.* That list would cast Pope Francis as “Petrus Romanus,” something he clearly is not.

*FLORILEGIUM INSULAE SANCTORUM, Messingham, 1624
 
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undead_rat, please give it up. You have a hobby horse that you can’t give up. You ask how you can take seriously a detractor from your conviction that the Prophecy of the Popes is true. That in itself speaks volumes about your tone on this thread–everyone is stupid and you can’t accept anything they say if they contradict you. That’s not good argumentation, and you are defeating yourself.
Good luck in trying to convince others!
 
The Prophecy itself will convince when its prediction of the fulfillment of the terrible visions of Giuseppe Sarto during the lifetime of Joseph Ratzinger comes true.

My apologies about my “tone.” I suppose that I am a little frustrated by the same old tired arguments that have been refuted so many times already.
 
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everyone is stupid and you can’t accept anything they say if they contradict you. That’s not good argumentation, and you are defeating yourself.

Good luck in trying to convince others!
There are a lot of people, myself included, who automatically tune out anyone with that attitude. It’s very counterproductive. But that’s OK, saves me reading anymore of that person’s posts.
 
There are a lot of questions about it. I think it has to be taken with a grain (at the very least!) of salt. Here’s what Jimmy Akin wrote about it. You can google and get a lot of other articles as well.
How Reliable Is the St. Malachy Prophecy? – Jimmy Akin
Mr. Akin referred to the motto, “Religio depopulata,” in his attempt to show a prediction that was not fulfilled. Here is what proponents of the Prophecy have to say about that motto:

Benedict XV
9/3/1914 to 1/22/1922
Religio depopulata “Religion depopulated”

"This is the kind of prediction we like because it was easily falsifiable. For instance, his reign could have been marked by a revival in the Church. It was a risky prediction and, according to Popper, ‘Confirmations should count only if they are the result of risky predictions.’ If Roman Catholicism had grown or even stayed the same this would have been necessarily falsified. Yet, in a remarkable fulfillment, this was the time when Catholicism lost more adherents in one short period than at any other time in history.

World war I was devastating to the Roman Catholic Church, and then to add insult to injury, some 200 million left the Russian Orthodox fold to join the Bolshevik revolution or were killed by the communists. A papal historian confirms, ‘Lenin declared war on religion and on assuming power was immediately to subject both the Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Churches in Russia to a murderous persecution.’ . . .Religion was heavily depopulated during this period. Indeed, the prophecy demonstates breathtaking accuracy here."

pg. 46, PETRUS ROMANUS, Horn/Putnam, 2012
 
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Do you believe that the two photos of Sister Lucia are the same person ? Dr. Peter Chojnowski, a guest on ’ Trad Cat Knight ’ says that the pre 1958 and post 1958 photos of Sister Lucia are not the same person. 1958 is also the year that Pope Pius 12th died , and he knew a lot about Fatima .
 
Bulletin of Atomic Scientists set the Doomsday Clock at 2 minutes to midnight.
 
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