Ending the Slavery Blame-Game

[jamanne]

Does the world forget about the Scottish clearances of the Hghlands how many thousands of Scots were sent into slavery in the Carolinas or the thousands of orphan children sent to Canada ,Ausrtalia to work in coalmines and brick factories with no advocacy whatsoever .Yes “Mans in humanity to Man” knows no bounds when theres money to be made., slavery is as old as the world itself ,we are all descendants of someone who was sold to it,maybe our energy would be better spent ensuring the universal laws are in place to prevent it in the future.

 

[MinkBDavenport]

Interestingly, columnist Thomas Sowell also recently wrote an Op-Ed piece about slavery - which I read in a local newspaper, and found here, online.

townhall.com/Common/PrintPage.aspx?g=f77c642a-eb7f-4847-aadf-73a075a79d69&t=c

I should say that I think his point in that column is well made.

In deference toward both men and their opinions, I probably have differences of opinions on several topics with both, and equal agreements with them on others.

 

[stanmaxkolbe]

Interestingly, columnist Thomas Sowell also recently wrote an Op-Ed piece about slavery - which I read in a local newspaper, and found here, online.

townhall.com/Common/PrintPage.aspx?g=f77c642a-eb7f-4847-aadf-73a075a79d69&t=c

I should say that I think his point in that column is well made.

In deference toward both men and their opinions, I probably have differences of opinions on several topics with both, and equal agreements with them on others.

You have to love Thomas Sowell he is just so over my head man. When you read his stuff its like, “Wow I never thought of that?”

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

Does the world forget about the Scottish clearances of the Hghlands how many thousands of Scots were sent into slavery in the Carolinas …

Nope. I am descended from the Black Watch, whose tartan I wear. At least, that’s my story.
http://www.albanach.org/blackwatch.jpg

“Mans in humanity to Man” knows no bounds when theres money to be made., slavery is as old as the world itself ,we are all descendants of someone who was sold to it,maybe our energy would be better spent ensuring the universal laws are in place to prevent it in the future.

Very true. We could extend my thesis to America making money off foreign countries, but we’re talking here about the US.

 

[Phil_Stone]

I know that Brown v Board of Education was decided not many years before I was born, but the fight to retain segregation continued throughout my youth.

I know Emmit Till was murdered around the time I was born, and he wasn’t the last.

I know that my dad attended a high school and college where there were no blacks. It goes without saying that no blacks lived in his childhood neighborhood.

I know his position in the Army was not shared with blacks, even though the Army had begun desegregation. And that position certainly helped him later on.

I know most of the firms he worked for did not hire blacks at his level for another decade at least. One firm was run by a family of Mormons, who would never have hired him if he were black.

I know that as a child we moved to a town where the only black family was that of an NFL star.

I know that my family came to this country long after slavery ended, but long before Jim Crow was even questioned by most of white America.

Did my father and I benefit from being white? Undoubtedly. Would he admit that? Never in a million years.

 

[jamanne]

Nope. I am descended from the Black Watch, whose tartan I wear. At least, that’s my story.
http://www.albanach.org/blackwatch.jpg

Very true. We could extend my thesis to America making money off foreign countries, but we’re talking here about the US.

Hello I’m also a descendant of the Black Watch My father and three brothers all belonged to that regiment.Just a little incident uncovered in my home town a mining village in Scoltand ,in the county of Lanarkshire .Recently from an old mine shaft some bodies were unearthed and it was the remains of families who had been sent to the coalmines.They had been chained together at the neck, included small children .estimates say within the last 100 years .DNA proved they were families

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

Why would families be chained together in coalmines within the last 100 years? I’d like to find out more about why that happened.

More recently in history, my father was a member of the 369th Armored, the ‘Harlem Hellfighters’ of WWII. Patton’s tanks did not run on water.

 

[Morgan_Hiver]

Jamanne,
I don’t think people forgot, I think it’s that people do not know. School never taught us about how the Irish and Scottish were the first slaves sent to the Americas packed on boats like sardines. Many more Irish and Scots died on the journey than any black slave did. It’s well documented by the British. Read the book “White Freight”. It is all historically accurate and no biases at all.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

I don’t think people forgot, I think it’s that people do not know. School never taught us about how the Irish and Scottish were the first slaves sent to the Americas packed on boats like sardines. Many more Irish and Scots died on the journey than any black slave did.

Nonsense. They were indentured and intermarried with the colonists. African slaves during the ‘middle passage’ had far worse fatality rates. Further, African slaves were imported throughout the Americas, unlike the European bondsmen.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

so what happens to those of us who are shall we say Multiracial? I am native American should I be placed in Vermont or Washington state? I am also Basque, so should I be taken back to France and before that my ancestors escaped from the Programs in Germany so should I not be taken back there? How about the Irish side of my family, why not transport me back to Ireland, not mentioning the part of who I am who is part African or a black Irishman, should I not be deported back to Africa or Ireland?

I don’t remember any of the nationalities you cited as being enslaved, unless perhaps they worked for Joe Kennedy in his New England sweat-shops. As for the Native Americans, they are doing quite well at getting back at the conquerers through their casinos!

 

[Via_Dolorosa]

You know Beau you sound like the majority of my friends who I hang which, of course we’re all retired/active military when this comes up in the news, I say I think there should be some type of compensation you know like even maybe a tax write off because your families have been screwed over; I don’t know, I think something should be done?

Now when this conversation [rarely] comes up it’s usually at a barbeque and we’re slamming some brews—the attitude is; it’s over let’s move on.

Some I thought were hardcore conservatives until they voted for Obama!!!

Bro,
Were you drunk when you posted? It doesn’t make any sense to me.

I ask “Hey want up with that”? I was told, “Come on bro, we needed a brother in Whitehouse.”

It was too funny; I guess you had to be there.

 

[jamanne]

The children sent from the UK were not indentured servants.They were sent to help farmers colliers ,and whatever under the guise of a new life .Thousands were abused .This action took the embarrassment of having poor kids running the streets of cities barefooted while the aristocracy filled the churches and heralded what a great Christian country the UK was.the unknown facts about the coal mines in Scotland and England was that many families were pushed into working in the mines or being transported,some on the flimsiest of evidence.Mine owners took advantage of fear and chained them together to stop them from running away.Remember there were no human rights groups then or children’s aid societies checking up on the labour laws.Those kind of societies were post WW11.By the way did you know that when the great influx of immigrants to US in the last century ,because of disease there were many orphans abandoned and the US dealt with this problem by packing the kids on trains and sending them out across America.Wherever the train stopped the locals could come aboard the train and choose which kids suited their needs .there are reports of babies and toddlers who were seen as just another mouth to feed crossing the continent ,back and forwards for months or years until they were “ADOPTED” GIVES YOU THE SHUDDERS DOESN’T IT ?I have heard of a group who are trying to trace their ancestors in the US back to these children because so many written accounts were left by them, but the government denies it and refuse to release any info

 

[Dale_M]

Read the book “White Freight”. It is all historically accurate and no biases at all.

Do you have any additional information about this book? I searched Amazon at its US and its UK websites and turned up nothing, not even out of print books.

Like Beau Ouiville, however, I admit to being skeptical of the claim that the mortality rates of Scottish and Irish who were transported as prisoners was higher than among black slaves during the Middle Passage. In the slave ships, people were packed together shoulder to shoulder and chained into place. If you got sick with diarrhea or vomiting, you lived in the filth, with no way and no one, to clean it up. Slaves being transported tried to starve themselves to death, or if freed for some reason, to jump overboard and drown.

 

[Zooey]

There was a program on PBS which ran about 10 years ago re. the slave trade in western Africia. Blacks in America tracing their roots can visit the forts where the slave traders waited for the slaves, captured in the interior by other blacks. After a selection process and spending time in the fort, they were packed onto ships for the Americas.

The spokespersons on the program were Africians who also did the tours for visiting black Americans. The spokespersons reported on how often they witnessed the visitors becoming so overcome by emotion that they had to leave the discussions. Why? Because they had never heard that it was fellow black Africians who had, during tribal wars or raids, captured their forefathers and sent them into bondage.

Liberia, on the west coast of Africa, was founded as a homeland for freed slaves. Many came from the US. Some ended up owning slaves in Liberia.

It’s also necessary to bring to light that Muslims were also involved in the slave trade in Africia. They did not cease until 1962 in Saudi Arabia. They were involved in Liberia and Ethopia into the 20th century. **I’ve always found it strange that American blacks would become Muslims. **

africanhistory.about.com/od/slavery/a/IslamRoleSlavery01.htm

I saw that program, too. And I have thought the same as you (bolded part): Why on earth would you join the religion of the people that sold your ancestors into slavery? When I watched that, I realized: They didn’t know. They had no idea that the Muslims & other Africans were the ones running the slave trade on the African end.

Maybe we could just return the descendants of all the slaves back to their ancestral homes.

Abraham Lincoln tried that. Frederick Douglass told him where he (Lincoln) could go with that idea.
Quite rightly, too!

The children sent from the UK were not indentured servants.They were sent to help farmers colliers ,and whatever under the guise of a new life .Thousands were abused .This action took the embarrassment of having poor kids running the streets of cities barefooted while the aristocracy filled the churches and heralded what a great Christian country the UK was.the unknown facts about the coal mines in Scotland and England was that many families were pushed into working in the mines or being transported,some on the flimsiest of evidence.Mine owners took advantage of fear and chained them together to stop them from running away.Remember there were no human rights groups then or children’s aid societies checking up on the labour laws.Those kind of societies were post WW11.By the way did you know that when the great influx of immigrants to US in the last century ,because of disease there were many orphans abandoned and the US dealt with this problem by packing the kids on trains and sending them out across America.Wherever the train stopped the locals could come aboard the train and choose which kids suited their needs .there are reports of babies and toddlers who were seen as just another mouth to feed crossing the continent ,back and forwards for months or years until they were “ADOPTED” GIVES YOU THE SHUDDERS DOESN’T IT ?I have heard of a group who are trying to trace their ancestors in the US back to these children because so many written accounts were left by them, but the government denies it and refuse to release any info

:sad_yes: There were poor children, there were families from the Celtic countries that England had taken over, & there were all kinds of “undesirable” immigrants.
And, yes, it was slavery.

 

[Zooey]

I know some people will disagree with me but I think some type of reparations should happen how and what I don’t know but as Americans we have to admit Americans who happen to be born black were pretty much screwed over in this country.

Then you start to think should reparations be given to descendants of free blacks that fought for the Confederacy; yes Virginia there was all blacks units in the CSA! Then you think what about the free blacks in the south that owned land that was taken away by the Union and given to whites.

.

And let us not forget the Confederacy had the Choctaw regiment: It was just what it sounds like. It was a regiment of all Native Americans, led by a wealthy Choctaw slaveowner. (Meaning: NOT a guy who owned Choctaw slaves; he was a Choctaw Indian who owned African-American slaves).

(Anybody want to start a move to collect money from the Choctaws? Maybe it could be used to pay reparations to the Plains Indians who were slaughtered by the US Army…including some of those Buffalo Soldiers you were talking about, Stan.):hypno::hypno::hypno:

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

The children sent from the UK were not indentured servants.They were sent to help farmers colliers ,and whatever under the guise of a new life.

Did you know that foundlings were sent west in the US under the same guise up until about WWI?

"From 1854 to 1929, orphan trains from New York “placed out” 150,000 to 200,000 destitute children, mainly to homes in the farming communities of the Midwest. "

42explore2.com/orphan.htm

Remember there were no human rights groups then or children’s aid societies checking up on the labour laws.Those kind of societies were post WW11.

The first federal child labor laws were in 1916.

 

[LookAWayDixieLd]

We should all know the truth about human slavery, who long African slavery went on? How did the Africans get from the native home to the USA? Who and what companies profited the most from human trafficking. What societies were the major culprits how long did those societies engage in African Slavery and how much did they profit? What percentage of Slaves out of African actually came to the US shores?

How is it, there were so many Africans captured into slavery across a huge ocean when there were thousands and thousands of native people within a few hundred miles who could theoretically been captured and turned into indentured servants? These are the pertinent points everyone should understand.

 

[aicirt]

I saw that program, too. And I have thought the same as you (bolded part): Why on earth would you join the religion of the people that sold your ancestors into slavery? When I watched that, I realized: They didn’t know. They had no idea that the Muslims & other Africans were the ones running the slave trade on the African end.

Apparently, there are about 2 million Muslims or .06% in the US. There are 1209 mosques. It is estimated one quarter belong to the Nation of Islam. Stats are vague.

Oddly enough, the Mormon Church’s biggest area of converts is in Africa. That Church excluded blacks until 1980 and in 1997 could become members of the priesthood.

 

[aicirt]

Irish Immigration…“The Great Hunger” about the potato famine of 1845-49 and the novel “Away” are worth reading. The blight hit the western counties. Most, at the time, relied on the potato for their principal source of food. Starvation ensued. Some Irish were found dead in boats having failed in their attempts to save themselves by fishing. And the waters were loaded with fish. England imported corn from the US and distributed it but the people did not know how to cook it. Finally, the Irish were shipped off to the US in what was then called coffin ships. The conditions were so bad, many knew they would not survive.

Those landing in the US were predominately Catholic. Because of the penal laws in British Ireland, they were uneducated having been forbidden to attend school, from speaking the native language, and owning property. They came to this country wearing rags and were penniless. They were looked down upon. In some cases, if it was a choice between choosing an Irish immigrant or a slave to do a particularly nasty job, the Irish got it. Why? Because he was of no value while the slave had value.

 

[Morgan_Hiver]

The book is actually called White Cargo: The Forgotten History of Britain’s White Slaves.
amazon.com/White-Cargo-Forgotten-History-Britains/dp/0814742963

As for the children slaves…they were actually kidnapped. That’s where we have the term kidnapped. Families would be travel to the larger cities to run errands and they’d turn around only to see that their child was missing. When slavery was abolished the children were still in the sweat shops forced to work. They’d go blind, develop terrible arthritis and other stress injuries caused by hard labour.

As for the middle passage…yes that was the worst point for the Africans BUT the slave owners learned how not to ship over the African slaves based off of their own experience with the Irish and Scottish. Let’s just say that a ship would hold 200 slaves…well, they would pack 500 Irish and Scottish. By the time they got to the Americas they would only have 150 Irish/Scottish left a live. So, by the time the African slaves were in transit, they packed 350 and would only lose about a 100 and that was still profitable to them.

In fact, I know this will sound terrible of me, but this has been proven (hence “in fact”), the whites were treated much worse than the African slaves. You see, the Irish/Scottish were coinsidered far less valuable than the Africans. So, even though the Africans were treated like animals, the Irish/Scots were considered to be more trouble than their worth. In that book there is a section where they describe the working conditions. The Africans were on the dock throwing heavy sacks onto the boat’s deck and the Irish/Scots were there to catch those heavy sacks. One nobleman questioned the slave owner about this…asked why the whites were catching back breaking cargo (literally back breaking) and the owner said how he paid good money for the Africans and didn’t want them to get hurt.

Slavery is terrible no matter what. Look at the Chinese that were forced into building the railroads. They did not receive anything from that.