Any Catholic man has no business having parties with strippers before his wedding night or other wise. My husband was not Catholic at the time of our wedding and did not have a bachelor party. Looking at nearly naked women right before your about to marry the woman you supposedly love is an insult to your fiance and the sacredness of marriage.I do have another question for the women here - mainly the married ones. It is somewhat related to this problem.
Considering that a good portion of males have bachelor parties prior to the wedding and they involve strippers, if your fiancee had a stripper at his bachelor party, would you consider that cheating? Or would it depend on what your fiancee did with the stripper (like the fiancee did here)?
The reason I ask is that how many of you would forgive or have forgiven your fiancee and why, and if so what are the criteria? I’m not trying to start an argument here, but the OP is looking for advice on what to do, and comparing rhses two situations may help shed some light on her options.
I’ve noted that there is definitely a bias on this forum when it comes to these types of discussions. I’m not implying anyone is wrong in regards to this thread but, I have certainly seen two different measuring sticks used for male vs. female in the past.Just sort of reading through this thread and had a thought. What happens when a woman has had so much to drink that she is practically passed out and her date takes advantage of that situation? Depending on the circumstances, we might call it date rape. We definitely though would think badly of the man who took advantage of her intoxication.
However, when the shoe is on the other foot, and the man is in a strange situation and has had so much to drink he physically is not capable of doing the act…for a 23 year old male this has to be extremely intoxicated…we hold him totally accountable and brand him as not marriage material.
Now I am definitely not saying that being drunk is something that gets him off the hook…but I think that we have to understand that this situation is not as simple as a lot of people who would like to wrap it up in a neat little package and stamp it “discard” would like to believe.
I do think that this kind of binge drinking in and of itself should be cause for real concern. I just really wonder about being so quick to totally condemn him as unworthy of rehabilitation.
I don’t know, maybe I have too forgiving a heart and am too open to the possibilities in people…I do have a track record for being too optimistic and too forgiving, but I just think we should be careful about branding someone in such an absolute way. I do think that there are huge issues here that need to be fully addressed, but the fact that he takes responsibility for his actions and that he is willing to address this in counseling gives me a lot of hope that someday he could be a good husband if the OP had it in her heart to give him the chance to earn back her trust.
Just sort of reading through this thread and had a thought. What happens when a woman has had so much to drink that she is practically passed out and her date takes advantage of that situation? Depending on the circumstances, we might call it date rape. We definitely though would think badly of the man who took advantage of her intoxication.
There is a bias thanks to the feminization of society. Women, it seems, no matter how poor their choices, can do no wrong, while men are always beasts.I’ve noted that there is definitely a bias on this forum when it comes to these types of discussions. I’m not implying anyone is wrong in regards to this thread but, I have certainly seen two different measuring sticks used for male vs. female in the past.
While I might agree with this argument in a philosophical way, I disagree that it should be reflected in our laws.There is a bias thanks to the feminization of society. Women, it seems, no matter how poor their choices, can do no wrong, while men are always beasts.
To answer dulcissima, the girl in question was incredibly stupid and got herself into a situation that made her vulnerable. The Air Force Academy rape problem was largely about this…young women breaking the rules, engaging in underage drinking and being in men’s dorm rooms when that was expressly forbidden. They end up raped, which is of course despicable, but they want only the men punished. They think they should be immune from punishment for their infractions and call it “retaliation.” When the whole point is that they would not have been raped had they not made themselves available and vulnerable by engaging in illegal and forbidden behaviors in the first place.
You won’t hear the “soft on women” double standard from me, but it is very prevalent. Which is unfortunate, because if women want true equality, then we have to live up to the same standards, take the consequences for our behavior, and not cry about how vulnerable we are when our own choices are what make us at risk! If one of my daughters did what the OP’s fiance did, I would tell her boyfriend to run and not look back, with appropriate embarrassment and shame at having raised someone with no self-control or moral fiber.
I agree with the final statement here, whether you forgive him completely or not, as a human you’re going to wonder these things when he goes on trips or it might even turn into when he goes to work. You can’t build a family on this type of doubt.When someone goes (sober) into a bar to drink, they know that there is the possibility of getting drunk. It’s not like we’re talking about a great mystery here. He opened himself up to temptations when he knew he would likely be drunk. I think that shows us a deeply flawed character. Our family now is watching the terrible aftermath of a relative’s lack of fidelity, and it is tearing up everyone around her. I strongly recommend that you avoid marriage with regards to people who can’t remain true to you in the engagement. I’d recommend to drop him like a hot potato. Every time he would go on a trip, you would wonder. Have you thought about that?
Is it not arguable that leaving my doors unlocked is a confusing signal?The point was, why is drunk behavior by females excused, but drunk behavior by males is punishable by law? If they are both drunk, and he has sex with her when she doesn’t want it, he can be prosecuted for rape. No matter how many signals she sent or how he confused them. He can be thrown in jail. But she is seen as having no responsibility. That is not fair.
And it’s way different from entering someone’s house, where you absolutely KNOW you are not welcome…
I didn’t start this argument. I responded to a question.If you argue for legislation criminalizing sexual or flirty behavior when drunk in a bar, then you have an argument to stand on.
Heck, I think she shouldn’t marry the guy, period. And she needs to get tested for STDs asap.I didn’t start this argument. I responded to a question.
I am not advocating legislation, I am talking about moral equivalency. You seem dead set against females taking any blame for their stupid behavior.
And I still think the OP should not marry her fiance until he has had years of therapy and learned not to make destructive choices.
No, my fiance does not have a drinking problem. He has already given it up as a result of this act. There was an open bar at dinner, and all the co-workers he was with went to the bars afterwards. He was around new people and drank way too much. This is not a typical behavior of his.To the OP.
Question: Does your fiance have a drinking problem?
In my DH’s business career, he has gone on many trips. (We never expected his career would lead him to travel) On some of these trips the gathering managers, et al, head for bars and some times, strip clubs. Many times my Dh wouldn’t know the destination until the cab arrived. He would then politley say goodnight, remain in the cab, and return to his hotel room (and then give me a call!).No, my fiance does not have a drinking problem. He has already given it up as a result of this act. There was an open bar at dinner, and all the co-workers he was with went to the bars afterwards. He was around new people and drank way too much. This is not a typical behavior of his.
If he does not have a drinking problem then why the need to give it up?No, my fiance does not have a drinking problem. He has already given it up as a result of this act. There was an open bar at dinner, and all the co-workers he was with went to the bars afterwards. He was around new people and drank way too much. This is not a typical behavior of his.
Thank you, MomaMary8! It is possible for a man to stand up against peer pressure and choose to live his values! Like my husband when he was in Korea and I was in California. He could have chosen anything, yet he chose to immerse himself in the base parish and exercise himself into the best shape of his life. The only time he entered the bars or saw the “juicy girls” was to roust other servicemembers from places they were not supposed to be. He was 26 at the time… not much older than the OP’s fiance.In my DH’s business career, he has gone on many trips. (We never expected his career would lead him to travel) On some of these trips the gathering managers, et al, head for bars and some times, strip clubs. Many times my Dh wouldn’t know the destination until the cab arrived. He would then politley say goodnight, remain in the cab, and return to his hotel room (and then give me a call!).
Thank you duskyjewel. We have a couple of wonderful men! (my guy is a vet as well) By the way, one of my prayers for service men is for Courage in Faith. They are surrounded by so many tempatations and situations that would make it easy for their Spiritual Life to go to the wayside. They truly need the strength of the Holy Spirit!Thank you, MomaMary8! It is possible for a man to stand up against peer pressure and choose to live his values! Like my husband when he was in Korea and I was in California. He could have chosen anything, yet he chose to immerse himself in the base parish and exercise himself into the best shape of his life. The only time he entered the bars or saw the “juicy girls” was to roust other servicemembers from places they were not supposed to be. He was 26 at the time… not much older than the OP’s fiance.
An585, if you want to have a stable, happy, committed life with your man, you need to hold out for a MAN. One who makes good choices regardless of what is going on around him. You can either move on and find one, or wait to see if your current fiance becomes one. And that wait should be no less than 3 or 4 years. He needs to show a continued pattern of reliable behavior before you trust him with your life, your future, and your babies.