English Propers for EVERY SUNDAY

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Is this true? That is indeed huge! This doesn’t apply to the processional or recessional right?
The recessional is after the Mass, so a hymn may still be sung there. The way I read it, I guess you could probably sing a hymn, then sing the introit, because the hymn would be before Mass (the beginning of the introit is the beginning of Mass), but we’ll see how everything plays out. There might be other things in the new GIRM that change things too.
 
:rotfl:
No offense, but I don’t think we are obligated to follow blogs. I think I will wait until a bishop speaks.
Of course. But it certainly seems like a new direction, musically, for the US church.
 
Of course. But it certainly seems like a new direction, musically, for the US church.
Don’t get me wrong. I am always ready to change if it is so ordered. In my parish, the change will probably have to be to go away from music. That would be a heck of a lot less work for me. But I am not going to make too much over the word “chant” as opposed to “song” in the translation. It is a deliberately more literal translation and is stilted in many ways. I agree with it, but we can not take the words at 21st Century English value if they are worded that way deliberately. Even the article notes that this is a change in the translation of the GIRM, not the GIRM. We will still be under the same GIRM as we were last year after the first of the year.
 
Don’t get me wrong. I am always ready to change if it is so ordered. In my parish, the change will probably have to be to go away from music. That would be a heck of a lot less work for me. But I am not going to make too much over the word “chant” as opposed to “song” in the translation. It is a deliberately more literal translation and is stilted in many ways. I agree with it, but we can not take the words at 21st Century English value if they are worded that way deliberately. Even the article notes that this is a change in the translation of the GIRM, not the GIRM. We will still be under the same GIRM as we were last year after the first of the year.
Good post. If there were a change in the GIRM, there would have to be a change in the Polish and Spanish Masses as well and I haven’t heard any rumors about it there. Besides someone can monotone a line, change the pitch on the last syllable, and call that a chant too.
 
These might become quite important, since hymns will now be not allowed at Mass. The Propers must be sung! THIS IS HUGE!!!
I tend to agree with this comment from that blog post:

"I think the only thing this clearly means is that whoever (re)translated the GIRM thought that “cantus” should be translated by “chant” – and given the new translation’s practice of almost always choosing an English cognate of the Latin word, this is hardly surprising. To my knowledge, there is nothing in the Latin word “cantus” itself that would restrict its meaning to the musical genre that we today identify as “chant.”

Of course, the choice of “chant” might be part of an agenda on the part of the translators, but until some further statement is forthcoming I wouldn’t read quite so much into the word choice."

The bottom line is, the GIRM isn’t being changed. We’re just getting a new English translation of it. The Latin text (the official, binding text, I believe) says cantus, which really isn’t limited to just chants properly so-called. The new English translation decided to translate cantus consistently using the cognate “chant.” That’s all. I’d say the naysayers are right and that hymns deemed appropriate by the priest/music director are still technically allowed. Whether or not you consider that unfortunate is a different matter.
 

The problem is that most Catholics today, including the musicians, don’t know neumes. Most have never seen neumes.​

Most Catholics don’t know regular western notation either. Neumes might even be easier for them. The average Catholic choir members have to have their parts played for them first anyway, and they basically learn by rote and repetition. The same goes for the congregation. Eventually, they catch on. That’s what they do now anyway.
 
Considering that a lot of people here know about music I would like to have a simple explanation on why in the US when people use the solfège syllables they use Ti instead of Si? 🙂
There are different systems of solfege. In the one I learned, “Si” is a sharped “Sol”…for instance, in the key of “C”, G would be “Sol” and G# would be “Si”. In the harmonic relative minor, it would be “la, ti, do, re, mi, fa, SI, la”. (In the system that I learned).
 
Yes, it is that hard to learn. I am with Cat on this. I think what we have here is a case of something seeming easier from the other side of knowledge.

It seems hard at first for us musicians, because we’re so used to other notation.
 
But to the topic at hand:

I have to say, I do in fact think implementation of this book in most parishes is an attainable goal, and I do think people can learn chant notation. I have personally witnessed high schoolers (with no prior notion of chant at all) taught to sing simple chants competently from the neumes in the span of an hour. No lie. I’m sure implementation of this book will take time, of course, but I picture something like this:

Stage 1: Musical director acquires a copy of SEP, speaks to the priest about beginning to save up money to buy copies for the whole congregation. Musical director’s best cantors learn the basics of the notations and begin singing just the Communion chant at their Masses. The congregation begins to get used to the sound of chant and the idea of a different but predetermined proper at every Mass (put a brief note in the bulletin about it).

Stage 2 (a few months later): Parish buys a few more copies. Musical director introduces the book to the rest of the cantors and the volunteer choir, who are familiar with the sound by now. The choir sings one of the chants for each of its Masses. Any cantors who can now handle it begin singing a proper per Mass. Ramp up number of chants learned as the choir becomes more familiar with the music and as time commitment permits.

Stage 3 (a year later): Choir Masses regularly have 2 of the proper chants now; the congregation is very used to the sound. Parish buys enough copies of the book to seed it with the congregation (doesn’t have to be enough for everyone to have one; that could take years). Put a very succinct note in the bulletin about how to read the notation (works a lot like regular notation, neumes are notes, when there are two squares right on top of one another sing the bottom one first. Boom, done.).

Stage 4 (another year later): The choir can now handle singing all the propers sometimes. There are more copies of SEP in the pews. A year of hearing the propers while matching them to the notation (and perhaps a few more short, simple, succinct notes in the bulletin about various aspects of the notation) have allowed many members of the congregation to follow along competently and sing.

Etc. etc.

Slow, but great.
 
So I’m in my way to Mass and I’m like shocked. I’m listening to my liturgy of the hours. Why are they chanting the Psalms?

I can’t believe they updated it already?

Hmm not sure if I like it. I miss the calming speaking voices of the lectors.

More later 🙂
 
So I’m in my way to Mass and I’m like shocked. I’m listening to my liturgy of the hours. Why are they chanting the Psalms?

I can’t believe they updated it already?

Hmm not sure if I like it. I miss the calming speaking voices of the lectors.

More later 🙂
I don’t entirely understand what you mean by “I can’t believe they updated it already?”, but as with the Mass, chanting the LOTH is the ideal, especially when praying in groups.
 
I don’t entirely understand what you mean by “I can’t believe they updated it already?”, but as with the Mass, chanting the LOTH is the ideal, especially when praying in groups.
For some reason, I thought the Divine Office App would be behind and that they would be reading the propers for a while. I was surprised to find the chanted propers.
 
I have never heard of neumes, “catholics should know neumes”???. Not this Catholic. I am quite sure I can learn.

I am looking forward to the changes, I hate the current music in 99% on the churches, not only do I not like the music, they sing it way tooo slooow and draggy.
But, I sure hope the music isn’t high pitched. I have a mid range voice (I don’t know enough about music to say what that is) and I am so tired of the sopranos up there leading us and no men at all and the few women that can keep up are the only ones singing. I had the idea that this music started with monks and male voices would be lower. Oh well, I can only hope…
 
I recently posted on another thread about the numerous resources for singing the propers, and I think it merits a repost on this thread.

Here’s the post:
TheMc said:
I often ask the same thing. With all the resources out there for singing them in english, there’s really no excuse not to sing them. (PS, out of all those links, I had a few more, but couldn’t fit them in.)
And here’s the expanded list of resources:

SEP
American Gradual
Simple Choral Gradual
Fr. Samuel Weber’s Works
Wiki on the Graduale Romanum
A blog post about the Graduale Simplex
Funeral propers set to metrical hymn tunes
Guam Propers
The Anglican Use Gradual
English Communion Antiphons with Accompinient
Document of communion propers
Rossini Psalm Tone Propers (1962 propers, but you could reuse many of them in the OF)
 
I recently posted on another thread about the numerous resources for singing the propers, and I think it merits a repost on this thread.

Here’s the post:
TheMc said:
I often ask the same thing. With all the resources out there for singing them in english, there’s really no excuse not to sing them. (PS, out of all those links, I had a few more, but couldn’t fit them in.)
While it sort of proves the point, it isn’t much practical help. Here’s the expanded list of resources that I refferenced above, for your practical use.
I hope this is helpful to many of you!!

Btw, many of these were found here, at the MusicaSacra website.
 
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