Episcopal Parish Petitions to Join the Ordinariate

[Adam_Warlock]

What is a Calvinist hippie anyway?

Peace, love, no war, man…oh, and total human depravity with a heavy dose of predestination, can yuh dig it man?

hahahahahaha

Good thing I’m an Anglo-catholic. That leaves things so nebulous that there’s no point in even *trying * to describe or defend it. A Calvinist-Evangelical-Hippy, on the other hand, is so precise that it is truly a scary thought. Sounds like something that would have killed all the red-shirted guys in Kirk’s landing party!

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

There she is! There she is! Ah… not so wounded as we were led to believe. So much the better!–st2

hahahahahaha

Good thing I’m an Anglo-catholic. That leaves things so nebulous that there’s no point in even *trying * to describe or defend it. A Calvinist-Evangelical-Hippy, on the other hand, is so precise that it is truly a scary thought. Sounds like something that would have killed all the red-shirted guys in Kirk’s landing party!

 

[Bluegoat]

There she is! There she is! Ah… not so wounded as we were led to believe. So much the better!–st2

My nerd-o-meter keeps lighting up for some reason…

So, A Calvinist-Evangelical is kind of like a Baptist who thinks that when we accept Christ an d get baptized it was pre-ordained and so not, in the normal sense of the word, free; the hippie comes in by eating a lot of granola, recycling diligently, adding sunflower seeds to rice, and so on.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Listening to a lot of Janis Joplin and Grateful Dead, driving a Prius, experience living in a commune, and having most of your household products made out of hemp are also tell-tale signs!

My nerd-o-meter keeps lighting up for some reason…

So, A Calvinist-Evangelical is kind of like a Baptist who thinks that when we accept Christ an d get baptized it was pre-ordained and so not, in the normal sense of the word, free; the hippie comes in by eating a lot of granola, recycling diligently, adding sunflower seeds to rice, and so on.

 

[zdon011]

…This sounds like typical Anglican fears of one who doesn’t like the papacy and wants to be under no authority. It is obvious you have never spoken to any Anglican Use priests or anyone who is involved with the Cardinals or CDF in charge on the Ordinariates.

…[It] is wise not to make comments unless you have the facts. As a former Anglo Catholic I have found so many Anglicans that are very anti Catholic although claiming to be Anglo Catholic and even praying for the Pope in their liturgy.

No one who is going to enter the Ordinariate is pushing any other Anglicans to join and further more I would prefer that unless they accept the Catholic Faith fully they continue on as Anglicans. The Church doesn’t need more division than we have already seen…

Dear Bernadette,

If you are going to address and refute the claims I made, I would thank you to stick to the facts of the matter. I do not appreciate complete strangers making assumptive, patronizing speculations on my personal attitude or ‘ignorance’ regarding the Ordinariates, as you seem to have done in your above-quoted comments.

Regards,
z

 

[BernadetteM]

Dear Bernadette,

If you are going to address and refute the claims I made, I would thank you to stick to the facts of the matter. I do not appreciate complete strangers making assumptive, patronizing speculations on my personal attitude or ‘ignorance’ regarding the Ordinariates, as you seem to have done in your above-quoted comments.

Regards,
z

My only comment is that you made statements that are not fact. The Ordinariate is set up to protect those Anglicans coming into the Church. They will keep their patrimony and the “treasures” they are bringing into the Church. Yes they will be under the Latin Rite, meaning they will be Catholic and the rite they use is considered Latin Rite, not an Eastern Rite, but will have their own Ordinary who deals directly with the CDF and Rome. The Ordinary will be on par with bishops, not the title at at this point. Pope Benedict has shown his fondness for the incoming Anglicans and has set up safeguards for them.

I understand that Continuing Anglicans in many cases are against this and some have put out as many fears possible to keep them from coming into the Church. You can read this type of stuff on different websites.

The Anglicans, including priests and Bishops I know have nothing against Anglicans who choose to stay Anglican. Neither do I. The established Anglican Use parishes for the past 28 years although under the local bishop have had no problems of interference from the bishops. They came in under the Pastoral Provision and had no promises made to them about changes in their liturgy etc. The Ordinariate is another story.

I haven’t read on any website favoring the Ordinariates of posters slamming Anglicans who choose to stay. They just wish them the best and that the Lord will be with them.

I feel that I stuck to the issues you raised and understand that many Anglicans do not trust Rome. If you want to really know the facts, not just read from the point of view of non interested Anglicans who are so against this please contact one of the Anglican Use priests. Since they have been in the Church, some for over 28 years, I believe they would be most helpful to answer your questions. You are the one who said they would have to assimulate into the local diocese, which is completely incorrect.

I have no fight in this issue, as I really don’t have a problem with another’s choice of which denomination they choose to belong to. Hopefully the Continuing Anglicans can get together as one. There are so many different groups and bishops that can’t seem to get along with one another. I guess you could say they are small scattered groups just as might be the case with the ones in the Ordinarites. Although one AU parish has 2000 members. Who knows the future for the Anglicans who stay Anglican or the ones who move on to Rome.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[RevDrNorth]

I imagine the “coming” together will not happen in the continuum. They cannot even manage to agree on ACNA. I think the coming together will happen with the Anglican Communion itself which dwarfs the continuum. Within the Anglican Communion it is possible to see the conservative and growing global South come together with conservative Anglicans in the West and then the other part of the communion being the dying liberal Western Church (coming together and shrinking together).

The other place of unity will of course be the Anglicans of both the Anglican Communion and the continuum who row across the Tiber. It is unknown how large the group will be but those voicing their decisions so far seem very excited and I suspect that excitement will carry over to a dynamic influence with the RCC.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Assuming that Anglicans are willing to throw away their protestant heritage of faith alone, disgust toward indulgences and purgatory, beliefs that papal supremacy and infallibility as well as universal jurisdiction are corrupt and ahistorical, widespread emphasis on faith alone and often imputation, belief in married clergy, focus on Christ alone and not saintly intercession, penitential views of “all may, some should, none must,” a vestry, their church polity, Reformation principles, and on and on and on, then everyone would start the Tiber trip. But to think that’s going to happen, IMO, is not realistic. Not every Anglican is chomping at the bit to be a Catholic just waiting for that excuse to swim I’m afraid. My Anglican parish has no such aspirations nor does my very Anglo-Catholic bishop or the diocese in general nor do many ACNA parishes. Evangelical sectors of Anglicanism are more apt to go to Evangelical alternatives or other mainline protestant churches, not Catholicism.

I imagine the “coming” together will not happen in the continuum. They cannot even manage to agree on ACNA. I think the coming together will happen with the Anglican Communion itself which dwarfs the continuum. Within the Anglican Communion it is possible to see the conservative and growing global South come together with conservative Anglicans in the West and then the other part of the communion being the dying liberal Western Church (coming together and shrinking together).

The other place of unity will of course be the Anglicans of both the Anglican Communion and the continuum who row across the Tiber. It is unknown how large the group will be but those voicing their decisions so far seem very excited and I suspect that excitement will carry over to a dynamic influence with the RCC.

 

[RevDrNorth]

Assuming that Anglicans are willing to throw away their protestant heritage of faith alone, disgust toward indulgences and purgatory, beliefs that papal supremacy and infallibility as well as universal jurisdiction are corrupt and ahistorical, widespread emphasis on faith alone and often imputation, belief in married clergy, focus on Christ alone and not saintly intercession, penitential views of “all may, some should, none must,” a vestry, their church polity, Reformation principles, and on and on and on, then everyone would start the Tiber trip. But to think that’s going to happen, IMO, is not realistic. Not every Anglican is chomping at the bit to be a Catholic just waiting for that excuse to swim I’m afraid. My Anglican parish has no such aspirations nor does my very Anglo-Catholic bishop or the diocese in general nor do many ACNA parishes. Evangelical sectors of Anglicanism are more apt to go to Evangelical alternatives or other mainline protestant churches, not Catholicism.

However, Evangelicals and Anglo Catholics (non Papalist) seem to get along relatively well. They may be more likely as I mentioned to find cohesion with the conservative global South within the Anglican Communion (as has already been happening).

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

The problem is the Global South is now embracing women’s ordination and I think it’s a sign that they have the stench of irrelevance looming in their basements as they adopt such innovations and heterodoxy.

However, Evangelicals and Anglo Catholics (non Papalist) seem to get along relatively well. They may be more likely as I mentioned to find cohesion with the conservative global South within the Anglican Communion (as has already been happening).

 

[zdon011]

The problem is the Global South is now embracing women’s ordination and I think it’s a sign that they have the stench of irrelevance looming in their basements as they adopt such innovations and heterodoxy.

It’s a mixed bag. The Province of Southeast Asia and some of the African provinces are pretty solid and orthodox (at most they have separate orders of ‘deaconesses’: I’ve heard that even Forward in Faith admit deaconesses). The Anglicans in the Sudan, on the other hand, are under the wing of ECUSA, and recently got a new woman Dean.

Pax,
z

P.S. I’m very excited at the moment. I’m about to start learning to be thurifer!

 

[GKC]

The problem is the Global South is now embracing women’s ordination and I think it’s a sign that they have the stench of irrelevance looming in their basements as they adopt such innovations and heterodoxy.

The problem is the global south is still part of the Anglican Communion. Can’t go there.

GKC

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Why do you think I’m so frustrated? I tend to believe in a lot of Anglican precepts and theology. It has a place in my heart, no doubt. And I LIKE my local parish whereas I can’t stand (pinching nose) any of the local Catholic parishes one bit. But like you, I see the Anglican Communion as the weirdest-tasting fruit salad I’ve ever tasted. W.O. is the foremost concern I have but the sexually-liberal and more heavily-evangelical nature of much of it bugs me, too. The archbishop of canterbury, in my opinion, is an utter waste and meaningless. I asked my rector why the ACNA and our diocese thinks it so important that the ABC recognizes us? He gave me the typical ‘despite his liberal beliefs and how lame he is, it’s a traditional polity and sign of unity for Anglicanism’ and I wanted to vomit . I agree more with the continuum approach.

But I think ACNA is going down the highway of being quasi-TEC with just a touch of conservatism. Groups like Christ Church Plano drive me NUTS with their W.O. stuff and yet it’s churches like Plano that have more influence than anyone in ACNA. Roseberry and his crowd are the “church planting” folks who are getting the most press and love. sigh

The problem is the global south is still part of the Anglican Communion. Can’t go there.

GKC

 

[JohnnyReb]

It’s a mixed bag. The Province of Southeast Asia and some of the African provinces are pretty solid and orthodox (at most they have separate orders of ‘deaconesses’: I’ve heard that even Forward in Faith admit deaconesses). The Anglicans in the Sudan, on the other hand, are under the wing of ECUSA, and recently got a new woman Dean.

Pax,
z

P.S. I’m very excited at the moment. I’m about to start learning to be thurifer!

And what I heard about the Nigerians, even though they do not want any funding from TEC in the USA, because of how liberal they have become on sexuality, they then turn around and ordain women, without thinking twice.

Now when it comes to women, I tend to take the approach that they only place they cannot serve is in the sacramental priesthood. Women should be affirmed and encouraged to serve in all other roles-pastoral counselors/chaplains, lectors, eucharistic ministers, hospital visitations, works of mercy and charity, youth leaders/directors, Christian education directors, search committees, etc…just no women priests.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I’m in complete and utter agreement with everything said here. Dittos bigtime…

And what I heard about the Nigerians, even though they do not want any funding from TEC in the USA, because of how liberal they have become on sexuality, they then turn around and ordain women, without thinking twice.

Now when it comes to women, I tend to take the approach that they only place they cannot serve is in the sacramental priesthood. Women should be affirmed and encouraged to serve in all other roles-pastoral counselors/chaplains, lectors, eucharistic ministers, hospital visitations, works of mercy and charity, youth leaders/directors, Christian education directors, search committees, etc…just no women priests.

 

[GKC]

Why do you think I’m so frustrated? I tend to believe in a lot of Anglican precepts and theology. It has a place in my heart, no doubt. And I LIKE my local parish whereas I can’t stand (pinching nose) any of the local Catholic parishes one bit. But like you, I see the Anglican Communion as the weirdest-tasting fruit salad I’ve ever tasted. W.O. is the foremost concern I have but the sexually-liberal and more heavily-evangelical nature of much of it bugs me, too. The archbishop of canterbury, in my opinion, is an utter waste and meaningless. I asked my rector why the ACNA and our diocese thinks it so important that the ABC recognizes us? He gave me the typical ‘despite his liberal beliefs and how lame he is, it’s a traditional polity and sign of unity for Anglicanism’ and I wanted to vomit . I agree more with the continuum approach.

But I think ACNA is going down the highway of being quasi-TEC with just a touch of conservatism. Groups like Christ Church Plano drive me NUTS with their W.O. stuff and yet it’s churches like Plano that have more influence than anyone in ACNA. Roseberry and his crowd are the “church planting” folks who are getting the most press and love. sigh

I agree with the Continuum approach, too. Except for the bad parts.

GKC

*posterus traditus Anglicanus

 

[zdon011]

And what I heard about the Nigerians, even though they do not want any funding from TEC in the USA, because of how liberal they have become on sexuality, they then turn around and ordain women, without thinking twice.

So far they’ve only allowed women deacons, but it’s still a worrying development:
virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=12736

Based on their comments, I’m afraid most Anglican bishops (especially in Africa) have taken the wrong-headed view that women’s ordination is a matter of male/female ‘equality’, which it is not:
observer.ug/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9899&Itemid=59

Now when it comes to women, I tend to take the approach that they only place they cannot serve is in the sacramental priesthood. Women should be affirmed and encouraged to serve in all other roles-pastoral counselors/chaplains, lectors, eucharistic ministers, hospital visitations, works of mercy and charity, youth leaders/directors, Christian education directors, search committees, etc…just no women priests.

If only those misguided ‘equal-rights’ activists saw it that way!

 

[Delta1]

But I think ACNA is going down the highway of being quasi-TEC with just a touch of conservatism. Groups like Christ Church Plano drive me NUTS with their W.O. stuff and yet it’s churches like Plano that have more influence than anyone in ACNA. Roseberry and his crowd are the “church planting” folks who are getting the most press and love. sigh

I can agree with that statement regarding the ACNA. They seem more like a moderate-evangelical version of TEC. I’m not a fan of churches like Christ Church Plano either. They are too evangelical for my taste. I’m an Ultra-Conservative Anglo-Catholic that is swimming the Tiber. My first RCIA meeting was last week and I am very excited to go through the process and be confirmed a Catholic in a few months.

I’ve always been more “Catholic” than “Protestant” anyway. i.e. Faith+Works, Against once saved always saved, literal real prescense of the body and blood during the Eucharist (Sadly I cannot say the Anglican Church has the literal real prescense in the Eucharist) believe in purgatory, papal authority, confessions, belief in the whole bible (Including the books Luther deleted) + sacred tradition, Apostolic Succession being necessary, ect.

I will post more later.

-Delta1

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Hi Delta…

Glad you found where you belong. A few of us on here are still praying about it, searching, not totally “there” again yet. Indulgences, Honorius I, infallibility, treasury of merit, that stuff bothers me. Then there’s NFP, wow, that is another issue and can of worms I’m not going to open up! LOL

I’m definitely more Catholic than anything. Certainly more Catholic than Orthodox. I have several issues with their theological views. I’m a Western-minded kinda guy. I’m not an evangelical fan either. Like you, Packer and Stott and the gang aren’t my “thing.”

I can agree with that statement regarding the ACNA. They seem more like a moderate-evangelical version of TEC. I’m not a fan of churches like Christ Church Plano either. They are too evangelical for my taste. I’m an Ultra-Conservative Anglo-Catholic that is swimming the Tiber. My first RCIA meeting was last week and I am very excited to go through the process and be confirmed a Catholic in a few months.

I’ve always been more “Catholic” than “Protestant” anyway. i.e. Faith+Works, Against once saved always saved, literal real prescense of the body and blood during the Eucharist (Sadly I cannot say the Anglican Church has the literal real prescense in the Eucharist) believe in purgatory, papal authority, confessions, belief in the whole bible (Including the books Luther deleted) + sacred tradition, Apostolic Succession being necessary, ect.

I will post more later.

-Delta1

 

[GKC]

I can agree with that statement regarding the ACNA. They seem more like a moderate-evangelical version of TEC. I’m not a fan of churches like Christ Church Plano either. They are too evangelical for my taste. I’m an Ultra-Conservative Anglo-Catholic that is swimming the Tiber. My first RCIA meeting was last week and I am very excited to go through the process and be confirmed a Catholic in a few months.

I’ve always been more “Catholic” than “Protestant” anyway. i.e. Faith+Works, Against once saved always saved, literal real prescense of the body and blood during the Eucharist (Sadly I cannot say the Anglican Church has the literal real prescense in the Eucharist) believe in purgatory, papal authority, confessions, belief in the whole bible (Including the books Luther deleted) + sacred tradition, Apostolic Succession being necessary, ect.

I will post more later.

-Delta1

If so, please expand on your views on the Anglican Eucharist.

GKC

Anglicanus-Catholicus