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joe370
Guest
Is it okay for a sola scriptura advocate to create a new church just because he/she does not agree with the teachings of the church to which he/she belongs?
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po18guy
Well-known member
The World Christian Encyclopedia lists thousands of them. With a bible, you can be pope of your own church!
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benidict
Guest
They would believe so yes. there is no Authority. Even in the earliest days of the “Reformation” there was a sense of Authority. For the past 200 years or so, we have seen more and more, a decline into Spiritual Anarchy. 
Kind of like the book of Judges says. Each man did what was right in his own eyes…Peace 
Kind of like the book of Judges says. Each man did what was right in his own eyes…Peace
po18guy
Well-known member
When asking “bible Christians” for the source of their authority, I usually receive only slurs against the Catholic faith. A simple answer would have been nice.They would believe so yes. there is no Authority. Even in the earliest days of the “Reformation” there was a sense of Authority. For the past 200 years or so, we have seen more and more, a decline into Spiritual Anarchy.
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benidict
Guest
It does become kind of muddled once this quesiton is asked. I never received any slurs against Catholicism, but I have had them attempt to side step, or hem and haw. there really is not good answer for this, on their part. Its so obviously glaring, that I dont see how they miss it. It really amazes me. Peace
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Esdra
Guest
I think it depends what you mean under “New Church”.
I am living in Austria, Europe, as some of you know.
There, of course, “Bible-Christians” are the very minority. (Cathlocism is state religion! - over 80% Catholics!).
So, would you say, if you start as a missioner your “own” Baptist Church in another town, would this be then a “New Church”?
Here in Austria, Pentecostals, Mennonites ( and Anabaptists; meanining no real Mennonites, but also Anabaptists, living all together in Bruderhofs, similar to the Hutterites in Canada and the US; that’s btw. a rather new movement here! since the 20th century maybe; The idea, just to mention that also, stems from Europe!
But they were cast out by Catholics and “higher Evangelicals” meaning Lutherans and some Reformed/Presbyterians in the 16th and 19th century.) and Baptists (and the so called “Free Evangelical Churches” which are de facto also Baptists) live together in great harmony.They are all “different Churches” - but on the other hand belong all together as “Bible-Christians”.
I think the phenomenon like in the US, that you just start your own “Bible Christian Church” doesn’t exist in that form here.
But, IMO, if they accept the “principles of the Bible” (which, also IMO, do all the ones mentioned above), they are, at least for me, not a “New Church”.
LDS are a New Church or Oneness Pentecostals or JWs, to some extant SDA as well; but not, as they are called in the US, non-denominationals or Baptists or similar ones (cf. my list above!).
Yours,
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SteveVH
Guest
I remember attending a fourth of July party with some of my employees soon after I had bought the company. No one really knew, at that point, that I was Catholic. There was a very involved conversation by some of the employee’s spouses about a mission that some of them were about to go on in Mexico. The topic of the conversation was those poor Catholics down there that needed to hear about Jesus. What was so funny was that they were a break-away group from the local Baptist church that had splintered into four different churches in the four years I had been in the community (they would be the fifth). But there was no doubt in their minds that they were the church with the truth. For the first time in my life, I think, I kept my mouth shut in deference to my poor wife.It does become kind of muddled once this quesiton is asked. I never received any slurs against Catholicism, but I have had them attempt to side step, or hem and haw. there really is not good answer for this, on their part. Its so obviously glaring, that I dont see how they miss it. It really amazes me. Peace
po18guy
Well-known member
What elephant in the living room? The stock argument/justification is that the bible is “God’s Holy Word” and that, somehow, the book is a living, breathing authority. Sounds to me like idolatry, frankly.It does become kind of muddled once this quesiton is asked. I never received any slurs against Catholicism, but I have had them attempt to side step, or hem and haw. there really is not good answer for this, on their part. Its so obviously glaring, that I dont see how they miss it. It really amazes me. Peace
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joe370
Guest
Do you think it would be OK for me to start a church and teach, basing my teachings on my understanding of the bible?
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jericho777
Guest
You ask an interesting question. It made think about some of the catholic folks here and how they post serious problems about their parish priest. They will say for example he is teaching something completely contrary to what church teaching is. Every time the response is go to another parish in their locale. Now what if there is no other catholic church in their area what are they to do? What kind of response can they expect from their local diocese and how long should they have to wait for the problem to be solved? Will it ever be resolved?
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Nicea325
Guest
Well I do not think it is an issue in every parish.Secondly, those making the claim or charge that a particular parish priest is teaching something false or contrary to CC teachings better be sure themselves of the teaching in question. As a Director of Cathesis I have been told on a few occasions that such and such priest are teaching something false. Half of the time I find out they misunderstood the priest.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
I was in a situation similar to what you’ve described above. I was attending a Bible study when a nun made statements that were not according to what the Church teaches. When I tried to argue the point, the priest seemed to side with the nun. A few weeks later He gave a homily teaching something that I thought was against Church teaching. I wrote the diocese and explained the situation as best as I could. Within a couple of weeks the priest revisited the subject again, and without drawing attention to the first inaccurate teaching, he gave a new teaching exactly how the Church teaches.
I didn’t have to go to another Church, much less start another Church. God set a hierarchy in His Church and sometimes it’s worth the effort to go up the ‘chain of command’.
If I had gone to another parish, I would have been leaving others to the inaccuracies and they may not have known the difference. Do you think I should have just left them in that position?
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joe370
Guest
Perhaps you can start a thread and ask that question. Anyway, what is your response to post #1?
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Usbek_de_Perse
Guest
It’s not against the law, and if it is OK for him/her, then it’s OK with everyone who cares (oh, and he/she better consult his/her spouse. I know for a fact that my wife would not let me found a church).
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benidict
Guest
I remember attending a fourth of July party with some of my employees soon after I had bought the company. No one really knew, at that point, that I was Catholic. There was a very involved conversation by some of the employee’s spouses about a mission that some of them were about to go on in Mexico. The topic of the conversation was those poor Catholics down there that needed to hear about Jesus. What was so funny was that they were a break-away group from the local Baptist church that had splintered into four different churches in the four years I had been in the community (they would be the fifth). But there was no doubt in their minds that they were the church with the truth. For the first time in my life, I think, I kept my mouth shut in deference to my poor wife.
that is funny! and I think you made a very wise decision to remain silent. Im sure your wife appreciated it. 
I sometimes just have to remain silent too, some of the things I have heard are just too ignorant to answer. I really dont fault them. They really are not taught what Catholicism teaches. Now if its one of their pastors or leadership spouting off stuff that they should know is not true, then I feel I have to stand up. Peace
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benidict
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If it is not idolatry my Dear Brother, then it is awful close…Peace
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Zenas
Guest
Concerning the O.P., I can tell you from up close and personal observation over many years that the issue of “authority” isn’t even on the radar of those who engage in church planting. They don’t try to claim authority from anyone and no one ever protests over lack of authority. It just isn’t an issue because they just assume that anyone who wants to start a church can do so.
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Esdra
Guest
Yes, as I think that,if there are the “basic prinicples” taught, that’s no other Church.
“the Characteristics of Bible-Churches”
- **Believe in the Trinity **(in an undoubtful way. benedict and I have been discussing that in his Thread “Is Adventism Christian?”)
- **sola scriptura **- The Bible is the only Authority when teaching the word. (Guided by the Holy Spirit)
- **solus Iesus **- Jesus is our Saviour. He died for us on the cross and therefore we can have again a relationship to His and our Father in Heaven. We need to grap that this is a gift and ACCEPT it.
- **solo fide **- We are saved through the believe in the name of Jesus. → Baptism is an outward sign that we belong to Him. That we are children of God.
- **sola gratia **- We are saved through God’s grace only. We don’t deserve salvation, for all have sinned! But God loves us so that gave us the chance to be saved through believe in His Son who has died for us on the cross - instead of us.
And good works are not necessary for Salvation. But they are a side effect if you really love Jesus and are His disciple and are trying to do everything He commanded us to do.
And I also think in this light there are far less “different Protestant denominations” than 14,000 as some claim here that there were.
Yours, in Christ,
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Bible Churches? Could you please show me in scriptures where it states we only have to adhere to ‘basic principles’? I believe that’s what some refer to as, ‘essentials’.
Can you give an example of someone in the Bible starting a Church that proclaimed only basic principles? Please show us someone who was not chosen and appointed by Christ, or ordained by the men He annointed.
Let’s say there are only 500 different denominations, with slight to great differences in teachings/doctrines. Isn’t that too many?
You listed Holy Spirit guided, for sola scriptura. How is it that there are different truths being taught by the Holy Spirit?
Is serving Him designed to be similar to a shopping mall, where people can shop for a Church to serve Him that they are comfortable with, or willing to do? I thought it was supposed to be His will and not individual wills.
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Esdra
Guest
I think I confused words here: I think you are right that I meant essentials and not “basic principles”.
Sometimes I’m just lacking words…
Bible Churches are IMO Churches with credo-baptism, like Anabaptists, Baptists, Pentecostals and similar ones. I’d say they differ VERY LITTLE in doctrine.
See above.
Let’s say there are only 500 different denominations, with slight to great differences in teachings/doctrines. Isn’t that too many?
I think we all are united in Christ. And the hick-hack around these doctrinal differences are not really that important…
Well, I still believe that the “Bible Churches” as I called them, don’t have different truths…
Is serving Him designed to be similar to a shopping mall, where people can shop for a Church to serve Him that they are comfortable with, or willing to do? I thought it was supposed to be His will and not individual wills.
His will IS to be worshipped. To worship Him in Spirit and Truth. [23 But the hour cometh, and now is, **when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.]
It’s not about one’s individual will. It’s about the will of God. See above.
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