EU Unveils 'Shocking' Border Force Plan

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Just to play counter advocate… the San Bernardino shooter was a woman. And many of these terror groups are utilizing women more and more because they got overlooked by the west (maybe westerners can’t fathom that someone who we see as being so repressed by groups like Daesh, would actually support that lot in life).
Yes, but these groups suppress and threaten their women. Who knows what the men said they’d do behind the scenes if she didn’t do whatever it was she was told to carry out. This is a man-led group where women do what they’re told or else.
 
Yes, but these groups suppress and threaten their women. Who knows what the men said they’d do behind the scenes if she didn’t do whatever it was she was told to carry out. This is a man-led group where women do what they’re told or else.
While that is true, it is also true that at least some women have bought into the idea that their role is to be subservient to men. When dealing with terrorist groups you have to keep in mind that these people do not think the way we do. Large groups in Islam do not accept reason as a guiding principle in life. The Allies had the same problem dealing with the Japanese in WWII. We never learned to understand the kamikazes, we just had to kill as many of them as we could before they killed us.
 
Yes, but these groups suppress and threaten their women. Who knows what the men said they’d do behind the scenes if she didn’t do whatever it was she was told to carry out. This is a man-led group where women do what they’re told or else.
That’s not what it sounded like with the San Bernardino shooter. By all accounts the wife may have been the more radicalized of the two and the driving force behind the attack. Now maybe someone back home was driving her to this before she came to the US, but that doesn’t negate that she was a big threat even if something outside, say back in Pakistan, was also driving her.

And frankly I think it’s very simplistic to say that this is a man led group where women do simply as they’ve been told. Many women in these places buy into it as much as their men do. They don’t see their situation in life as westerners do. For example we’d see Saudi women as being severely oppressed, but many of them don’t seem much of what we’d consider oppression (such as being forced to cover up completely in public) as repressive at all. They accept that as part of their role in the world and their religion. Many Daesh supporting women take this same mentality to the same extreme their men do.
 
Its situations like this that prove how much we need our state militias now more than ever.
 
Its situations like this that prove how much we need our state militias now more than ever.
How so? What would a state militia accomplish in a situation like this that local law enforcement and if needed the national guard, don’t already cover?
 
The big difference between the United States of America and the possible United States of Europe is that one had a common culture and the other does not. When peoples speak different languages, with different established religions, and different values, everyone is going to have to give up some of those differences to get along. The USA has a history of assimilation where immigrants want to change and blend into a common culture, at least until multiculturalism became trendy, but European countries lack that history. They tend to have immigrants form separate sub-cultures rather than evolve a common culture.
Not all states have monolithic cultures or one homogenous culture. Canada, for instance, is a multi-cultural and multi-lingual federation. The Quebecois are a distinct cultural group of French-speakers within that nation.

The UK is another characteristic example. It is a nation comprised of between 4 and 5 countries (5 if you include the Cornish) with distinct cultures, languages and even legal systems: Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Cornwall. I studied and became qualified in Scots law. To practise as an English lawyer, I need to do a conversion course and another traineeship, just to relocate my practice to somewhere else in my own state because Scotland and England have different systems. Scots Law has different sources from English law.

Scotland has a proud and distinct culture from England. We are not the same, yet we have full political unity as regions within the UK.

In terms of Europe, there certainly is a shared heritage anchored in medieval Christendom, the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, the Holy Roman Empire, the Scientific Revolution et al. Nazism, Communism and the Iron Curtain were also shared experiences.

And there is a powerful foundation narrative for the EU as coming out of the carnage and bloodletting of WWII.

Read:

euperspectives.blogactiv.eu/2014/06/13/a-reflection-on-european-unity-the-eu-and-the-memory-of-christendom/
But what makes Europe what it is? Is there a generic “European”? Or is it all an empty abstraction?
History in fact provides us with a clear answer. As British historian Christopher Dawson wrote:
“For Europe is not a political creation. It is a society of peoples who shared the same faith and the same moral values. The European nations are parts of a wider spiritual society, and it is only by studying the nature of the whole, that we can understand the functions of the parts.”( Christopher Dawson. Understanding Europe)
Europe in short is a historic-cultural reality – one which emerges from the idea of Christendom. It is true of course that the term “Europe”(Gr. Ευρωπη) as a geographic designator goes back at least to the ancient Greek historian Herodotus and Hecataeus of Miletus. It is also true that the pre-Christian civilizations – above all the classical Greek and Roman – contributed enormously to Europe’s intellectual, artistic, and political inheritance. But it was Christianity which forged the disparate tribes of Europe – the Latin Spaniard, the Irish Celt, the Teutonic Scandinavian, the Hungarian Magyar – into one community united by a common faith in Jesus Christ. The medieval unity of European Christendom is the historical matrix from which the separate nation-states arose.
This long memory of Christendom was dear to the principal founding fathers of the European Union – Konrad Adenauer, chancellor of post-war Germany, Robert Schumman prime minister of France, Alcide di Gasperi prime minister of Italy. Behind the unimaginable destruction wrought by two fratricidal world wars they intuited a forgetfulness of Europe’s Christian roots. This manifested in a tribal nationalism which trumped any sense of obligation to the Europe as a whole. Furthermore, totalitarian ideologies with their denial of Christian charity and human dignity led to the inhumanity of war and genocide. The EU’s founders did not believe returning to medieval Christendom was possible or desirable. But they did believe a renewal of Christian values in a way fully compatible with modern democracy and personal freedoms could be a great force for healing the self-inflicted wounds of a battered continent. As Robert Schumann stated:
“We are called to bethink ourselves of the Christian basics of Europe by forming a democratic model of governance which through reconciliation develops into a ‘community of peoples’ in freedom, equality, solidarity and peace which is deeply rooted in Christian basic values.”
“Europe” is not an empty term. Before the nation-states of modern Europe existed, Medieval Christendom existed.

The unity preceded the divisions.
 
Not all states have monolithic cultures or one homogenous culture. Canada, for instance, is a multi-cultural and multi-lingual federation. The Quebecois are a distinct cultural group of French-speakers within that nation.

The UK is another characteristic example. It is a nation comprised of between 4 and 5 countries (5 if you include the Cornish) with distinct cultures, languages and even legal systems: Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Cornwall. I studied and became qualified in Scots law. To practise as an English lawyer, I need to do a conversion course and another traineeship, just to relocate my practice to somewhere else in my own state because Scotland and England have different systems. Scots Law has different sources from English law.

Scotland has a proud and distinct culture from England. We are not the same, yet we have full political unity as regions within the UK.

In terms of Europe, there certainly is a shared heritage anchored in medieval Christendom, the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, the Holy Roman Empire, the Scientific Revolution et al. Nazism, Communism and the Iron Curtain were also shared experiences.

And there is a powerful foundation narrative for the EU as coming out of the carnage and bloodletting of WWII.

Read:

euperspectives.blogactiv.eu/2014/06/13/a-reflection-on-european-unity-the-eu-and-the-memory-of-christendom/

“Europe” is not an empty term. Before the nation-states of modern Europe existed, Medieval Christendom existed.

The unity preceded the divisions.
England and Scotland are both part of the United Kingdom, so far. They did not unite easily from mutual consent, nor did French and English speaking Canada. Union required military conquest. There are periodic movements to separate in both countries, which I am sure you know.

The USA also gained territory from military conquest in the Southwest, but largely because English became the single dominant language, the prospects of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and California returning to Mexico are exactly zero.

I agree that a common Christian heritage could be a strong unifying force for Europe, but I see European nations fleeing from that heritage at breakneck speed into secularism. Pope Benedict was not the only one to notice that.
 
That’s not what it sounded like with the San Bernardino shooter. By all accounts the wife may have been the more radicalized of the two and the driving force behind the attack. Now maybe someone back home was driving her to this before she came to the US, but that doesn’t negate that she was a big threat even if something outside, say back in Pakistan, was also driving her.

And frankly I think it’s very simplistic to say that this is a man led group where women do simply as they’ve been told. Many women in these places buy into it as much as their men do. They don’t see their situation in life as westerners do. For example we’d see Saudi women as being severely oppressed, but many of them don’t seem much of what we’d consider oppression (such as being forced to cover up completely in public) as repressive at all. They accept that as part of their role in the world and their religion. Many Daesh supporting women take this same mentality to the same extreme their men do.
Exactly right and this was said somewhat in the debate last night, you have children that carry bombs, you have woman who carry out terrorist attacks and if a man tells them to do that, that really is beside the point.

As C. Cristie said, really, the first job of the government is to protect the people, we can worry about being charitable later.
 
While that is true, it is also true that at least some women have bought into the idea that their role is to be subservient to men. When dealing with terrorist groups you have to keep in mind that these people do not think the way we do. Large groups in Islam do not accept reason as a guiding principle in life. The Allies had the same problem dealing with the Japanese in WWII. We never learned to understand the kamikazes, we just had to kill as many of them as we could before they killed us.
A certain controversial Russian politician said recently to a bunch of journalists that ISIL were made up mainly of mercenaries - which is normally a male thing. There may be others who are part of the organisation that are theocratic radicals. The thing is, is that if people, especially women, have been surpressed and brain-washed throughout their lives since when very young then it can be difficult to unbrainwash so I think it is correct that you say a different mindset. That is for certain. How does one battle with anti-reason? A plague of the mind that runs deep to the point of murder - we are talking about psychopathic actions. So staggering that this mental disturbance can affect so many people at the same time. Makes me wonder whether many of these terrorists are mercenaries. Also, to butcher in such a barbaric way also gives rise to the idea that certain texts invigorate physical terror - like an evil rhythm. There are some very barbaric ‘customs’ that were the norm a few thousand years ago - such as stoning etc…though ISIL take things past that even…that it seems to me that certain cultures have been living in an ancient heathen (for want of a better word) ritualistic culture possibly thanks to texts that enslave by keeping them in such a static mindset.

But the people fleeing are the ones who obviously don’t partake of those evil actions and so I think putting them in the same basket is quite criminal on the part of wannabe politicians and politicians who think it is okay to do so.
 
That’s not what it sounded like with the San Bernardino shooter. By all accounts the wife may have been the more radicalized of the two and the driving force behind the attack. Now maybe someone back home was driving her to this before she came to the US, but that doesn’t negate that she was a big threat even if something outside, say back in Pakistan, was also driving her.

And frankly I think it’s very simplistic to say that this is a man led group where women do simply as they’ve been told. Many women in these places buy into it as much as their men do. They don’t see their situation in life as westerners do. For example we’d see Saudi women as being severely oppressed, but many of them don’t seem much of what we’d consider oppression (such as being forced to cover up completely in public) as repressive at all. They accept that as part of their role in the world and their religion. Many Daesh supporting women take this same mentality to the same extreme their men do.
Maybe some do. But the men set the example. If women didn’t want to do these things then they’d be the worse for it. No one is excusing evil action but it is most definitely a man-run organisation. Like AL-Q was. Respectfully, this is pretty well known. Women are and have been surpressed for years in such cultures. There are plenty of films and books about it that speak the truth. Everything is fear-based in such cultures. And the most vulnerable get hit the worst. No wonder refugees are treated so badly when men in the West (not saying you don’t; I mean generally speaking) can’t even feel some empathy for the women who suffer these ordeals and live under such extreme surpression. Let alone the children. I get that women can be devious and violent too, and it would be sexist to think otherwise, but the culture we speak of is one that is law-of-the-jungle, strongest first, and in these set-ups are almost inevitably run by power-seeking and violent bloody-minded men. You probably do get physically dangerous women but they are not the majority. Male Imams radicalise to extremes the young people by taking advantage of their sadness and bitterness at political oppression and invigorating their aspirations with manipulative dreams of having ‘brothers’ looking out for them. Women Imams would be unheard of in such radically theocratic cultures. Women are trapped, in an enslaving radically theocratic nightmare, from birth. Their second-class citizenship after men is fed into them as normal at such a young age that the risk is oneday they begin to feed from the enslavement without questioning their own personal reason for being.
 
England and Scotland are both part of the United Kingdom, so far. They did not unite easily from mutual consent, nor did French and English speaking Canada. Union required military conquest. There are periodic movements to separate in both countries, which I am sure you know.
I am Scottish. Coming from a small ethno-cultural group with its distinctive culture within a larger state, I should think I do know what I’m talking about 😉

The Nationalists were trounced in our referendum, as they were in Quebec.

Scotland was not militarily forced to join England in the union. The process of integration took 100 years from when King James assumed the separate thrones of England and Scotland, to 1707 when the Scottish Parliament voted by majority to dissolve itself and become one with England in the new “Kingdom of Great Britain”. One of the most imminent reasons was the failure of the Darien adventure. Scotland was bankrupt by its failed attempt to form an overseas colony and badly needed English gold. Burns, our national board, has a song about it. After the Union, Scotland witnesses the “Scottish Enlightenment”. Adam Smith and all that. It worked well for us. Hence why we voted to retain this over-300 year old union last year.
The USA also gained territory from military conquest in the Southwest, but largely because English became the single dominant language, the prospects of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and California returning to Mexico are exactly zero.
I agree that a common Christian heritage could be a strong unifying force for Europe, but I see European nations fleeing from that heritage at breakneck speed into secularism. Pope Benedict was not the only one to notice that.
I think it’s the “elephant in the room” of European integration. None can deny that a transnational society bound together by supranational canon law, ecclesiastical canon law, customs, pilgrimages, the Holy See (which acted as the highest court in Europe) and the Holy Roman Empire, existed throughout the Middle Ages and until the Treaty of Westphalia was signed in 1648, creating the modern international system of sovereign states.

It’s a fact. The Founding Fathers of the EU (with the exception of Winston Churchill) were all Catholics aware of this heritage.

You see, Europe started out from this state of unity. It is the continent’s “natural” state in some respects. Ever since this unity was broken and until the foundation of the EU post-WWII, the continent has witnessed more bloodshed than any other.

Read this from Servant of God Robert Schuman, the Father of the EU:

users.belgacombusiness.net/schuman/democracy.htm
Europe is the embodiment of a generalised democracy in the Christian sense of the word (from his book: Pour l’Europe).
These principles became part of the first democratic constitution, that of the United States where the bond between Christianity and democracy is deeply felt and manifest in everyday political life. The religious idea is a factor officially recognised in American public life.
The initiation of a vast programme of generalised democracy in the Christian sense of the word finds its fruition in the construction of Europe.
Already the Coal and Steel Community, Euratom and the Common market, with the free circulation of products, capital and people, are institutions which are modifying deeply and definitively the relationships between the associated States; they are becoming in some way the sectors or provinces of the same whole. This ensemble should not and must not remain an economic and technical enterprise: it needs a soul, the conscience of its historical affinities and its responsibilities present and future, a political will in the service of the same human ideal.
And:

booksandjournals.brillonline.com/content/journals/10.1163/23528230-08001008
Robert Schuman’s Commitment to European Unification:
The Inspiring Role of his Roman Catholic Faith
With the EU struggling to maintain itself, it is highly relevant to look into the drive for and original vision on European unification of its principal architect, Robert Schuman, then French Minister of Foreign Affairs. The Schuman Declaration (1950) gave birth to the EU and procured the longest period of peace among its member states since the Treaty of Verdun (843). This article shows how Schuman’s Catholic faith influenced his life and therefore his politics. His drive to be a faithful instrument of Providence, supported by his origins from Alsace-Lorraine, made him strive towards peace on the European continent. He envisaged a European political integration through economic cooperation at the service of man and his transcendence and rooted in the common European spiritual and cultural heritage. This implied reconciliation, effective solidarity, subsidiarity and supra-nationality for European common interests through an integration in small steps.
 
A certain controversial Russian politician said recently to a bunch of journalists that ISIL were made up mainly of mercenaries - which is normally a male thing. There may be others who are part of the organisation that are theocratic radicals. The thing is, is that if people, especially women, have been surpressed and brain-washed throughout their lives since when very young then it can be difficult to unbrainwash so I think it is correct that you say a different mindset. That is for certain. How does one battle with anti-reason? A plague of the mind that runs deep to the point of murder - we are talking about psychopathic actions. So staggering that this mental disturbance can affect so many people at the same time. Makes me wonder whether many of these terrorists are mercenaries. Also, to butcher in such a barbaric way also gives rise to the idea that certain texts invigorate physical terror - like an evil rhythm. There are some very barbaric ‘customs’ that were the norm a few thousand years ago - such as stoning etc…though ISIL take things past that even…that it seems to me that certain cultures have been living in an ancient heathen (for want of a better word) ritualistic culture possibly thanks to texts that enslave by keeping them in such a static mindset.

But the people fleeing are the ones who obviously don’t partake of those evil actions and so I think putting them in the same basket is quite criminal on the part of wannabe politicians and politicians who think it is okay to do so.
ISIS stated they would use the refugee system to infiltrate Europe, the Paris terrorists apparently at the very least, used the refugee system to move about.The Syrians who flee are mostly fleeing Assad and barrel bombs.

So one’s criticisms of “wannabe politicians” seem at odds with reality in the facts as stated in the above post.
 
Maybe some do. But the men set the example. If women didn’t want to do these things then they’d be the worse for it. No one is excusing evil action but it is most definitely a man-run organisation. Like AL-Q was. Respectfully, this is pretty well known. Women are and have been surpressed for years in such cultures. There are plenty of films and books about it that speak the truth. Everything is fear-based in such cultures. And the most vulnerable get hit the worst. No wonder refugees are treated so badly when men in the West (not saying you don’t; I mean generally speaking) can’t even feel some empathy for the women who suffer these ordeals and live under such extreme surpression. Let alone the children. I get that women can be devious and violent too, and it would be sexist to think otherwise, but the culture we speak of is one that is law-of-the-jungle, strongest first, and in these set-ups are almost inevitably run by power-seeking and violent bloody-minded men. You probably do get physically dangerous women but they are not the majority. Male Imams radicalise to extremes the young people by taking advantage of their sadness and bitterness at political oppression and invigorating their aspirations with manipulative dreams of having ‘brothers’ looking out for them. Women Imams would be unheard of in such radically theocratic cultures. Women are trapped, in an enslaving radically theocratic nightmare, from birth. Their second-class citizenship after men is fed into them as normal at such a young age that the risk is oneday they begin to feed from the enslavement without questioning their own personal reason for being.
Killing is killing, whether a man, woman, teenage girl did it. I doubt if we are as concerned with the social implications, it does not lessen the risk.
 
Hi. Thanks for the responses. I see in your pasted text that you’ve used Fox News; first, in relation to your source, I can think of more reliable ones.

The Paris attacks were by men who had obviously been drawn to radical ideals, as they came from Belgium, a very poor and multi-ethnic area. IOW, they were looking for trouble.

Fear is not a means to an end. Or a new beginning. Yes, it is terrible, and this is why such atrocities come under ‘terror’. But does this mean penalizing the innocent people too? If you were in the shoes of refugees would you be hoping for safe passage and a life for your children?

Whether from Assad’s side or the rebels, terror is wrong, and there are different forms of terror. This can be rebellious murder and this can be violence at the hands of dictatorships, and there is also mental terror. The last is more subtle sometimes and this is often the kind that slips into westernised thinking initiated by control-mad people in influential positions who understand that to make people scared will have the effect of keeping them where they are.

I think there is a good chance that a few ISIL members will slip in through the gates due to lack of intelligent border controls. From what I’ve heard, many border control units are run by official thugs. But there is also a good chance that the few brainwashed terrorist people who do get through might change when they come to realise that the West is not as bad as their ‘brothers’ made out. Of course, this is not likely, when certain wannabe politicians keep making prejudice remarks - not exactly setting a good tone or example.
 
Killing is killing, whether a man, woman, teenage girl did it. I doubt if we are as concerned with the social implications, it does not lessen the risk.
Hi again. Let’s not blow this way out of perspective. Take the number of people who have made it to other countries and look at how many terrorist activities have actually been committed by refugees. Considering the fact that most refugees are poor, starving, beaten, and ravaged by ill healthy, I hardly think they are in a fit state to commit horrid atrocities. Going by figures, you’ll probably find there are more shootings by people with severe mental issues who are born and bred Western, than ex-members of terrorist organisations. However,t he danger is real, true. So, instead of adding to the problem of divides and discord, why don’t (real) politicians talk about dialogue. Obama was right in that sense. He did want this. He wanted dialogue and education in certain communities. That was actually a good idea. Dialogue and room for people to express themselves constructively leads to happiness. Inner conflict combined with external pressures can lead many a man to an awful stage. This is not excusing terror but trying to find real remedial long-term action other than more hate, more divide, more ‘them and us’, more ’ we are right and they are wrong’. We need to see refugees as people not terrorists. With decent border controls and education etc…these things can be handled. Let’s not blame every facet of ill-thinking in the world on the Middle East. The problems are also evident in our own countries already. When we are able to be good example as leading countries THEN we can talk righteously, but until then, much of the stuff coming from political directions is self-righteous.

So, why not allow them safe passage, especially women and children and old people and disabled people, but with caution (“with caution” can be active and preventative rather than obstructive).

👍🙂
 
I absolutely love Europe. However the way the EU is structured between the Euro and the EU government being like a UN style organization, something has to give. Either the counties need to be further or less integrated.
Constitutional theorists debate ad nauseum precisely how the EU should be classed as an entity under international law. The rough consensus seems to be that it is presently in a category all of its own, the world’s only example of a “Supranational Union” that lies somewhere between a federal state and an international organization.

While the EU does have intergovernmental institutions (such as the Council of the European Union) the executive branch, known as the European Commission (in former times as the “High Authority”) has a ‘vertical’ relationship vis-à-vis the Member States and is set above them super partes as in a hierarchy.

The same occurs in the legal sphere. Under the principle of supremacy, European law overrides and nullifies any conflicting national law. It also has a “direct effect” in national legal systems. The precedent for this was laid down by the ECJ [European Court of Justice] in the famous Costa judgement of 1964:
"By contrast with ordinary international treaties, the EEC Treaty has created its own legal system which, on the entry into force of the Treaty, became an integral part of the legal systems of the Member States and which their courts are bound to apply.
By creating a Community [EU] of unlimited duration, having its own institutions, its own personality, its own legal capacity (…), the Member States have limited their sovereign rights and have thus created a body of law which binds both their nationals and themselves.
It follows from all these observations that the law stemming from the Treaty, an independent source of law, could not, because of its special and original nature, be overridden by domestic legal provisions, however framed, without being deprived of its character as Community [EU] law and without the legal basis of the Community [EU] itself being called into question. ***(Costa v. ENEL [1964] ECR 1141) ***
So the EU cannot usefully be compared with the UN. It is an entirely different “beast”, so to speak.
 
Constitutional theorists debate ad nauseum precisely how the EU should be classed as an entity under international law. The rough consensus seems to be that it is presently in a category all of its own, the world’s only example of a “Supranational Union” that lies somewhere between a federal state and an international organization.

While the EU does have intergovernmental institutions (such as the Council of the European Union) the executive branch, known as the European Commission (in former times as the “High Authority”) has a ‘vertical’ relationship vis-à-vis the Member States and is set above them super partes as in a hierarchy.

The same occurs in the legal sphere. Under the principle of supremacy, European law overrides and nullifies any conflicting national law. It also has a “direct effect” in national legal systems. The precedent for this was laid down by the ECJ [European Court of Justice] in the famous Costa judgement of 1964:

So the EU cannot usefully be compared with the UN. It is an entirely different “beast”, so to speak.
Does one actually have a comment on the Border Force Plan by the EU?
 
Hi. Thanks for the responses. I see in your pasted text that you’ve used Fox News; first, in relation to your source, I can think of more reliable ones.

The Paris attacks were by men who had obviously been drawn to radical ideals, as they came from Belgium, a very poor and multi-ethnic area. IOW, they were looking for trouble.

Fear is not a means to an end. Or a new beginning. Yes, it is terrible, and this is why such atrocities come under ‘terror’. But does this mean penalizing the innocent people too? If you were in the shoes of refugees would you be hoping for safe passage and a life for your children?

Whether from Assad’s side or the rebels, terror is wrong, and there are different forms of terror. This can be rebellious murder and this can be violence at the hands of dictatorships, and there is also mental terror. The last is more subtle sometimes and this is often the kind that slips into westernised thinking initiated by control-mad people in influential positions who understand that to make people scared will have the effect of keeping them where they are.

I think there is a good chance that a few ISIL members will slip in through the gates due to lack of intelligent border controls. From what I’ve heard, many border control units are run by official thugs. But there is also a good chance that the few brainwashed terrorist people who do get through might change when they come to realise that the West is not as bad as their ‘brothers’ made out. Of course, this is not likely, when certain wannabe politicians keep making prejudice remarks - not exactly setting a good tone or example.
Since you attack Fox News as reliable yet, seem to lack knowledge on basic details if not even engaging in the principle conversation, I do take offense at singling out a news source for this mudslinging and a deflection. Attack the message and not the messenger iow. Prove it wrong or maybe we can set up a thread somewhere else to debate if Fox is so much worse than other outlets. Let’s see the citations.
 
Does one actually have a comment on the Border Force Plan by the EU?
The border force plan is linked to the reach of the EU and the vexed question of member state sovereignty, hence why others have been discussing the constitutional nature of the EU’s structure and I have responded to their comments.

I am supportive of the Border Force. Frontex is worse than useless. That external border needs to be secured. Had it been so in the beginning, then the migrant crisis wouldn’t have become such a crisis in the first place and Schengen wouldn’t have been affected as it is.

The problem of course has always been “sovereignty” and the limits of EU power.

It’s nonsensical to have no borders internally within states yet have the same states decry their loss of sovereignty when the one external border needs secured IMHO.
 
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