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Contra_Mundum_1
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I agree, more as a general principle rather than just as a Scottish question at this moment.
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FollowChrist34
Guest
Ok then Jim Murphy is my kind of guy. Catholicism is about the common good, not sectarianism. Thomas Aquinas, not Gerry Adams. People get their politics so mixed up with their religion it chokes the life out of their faith and they become monsters. Doesn’t just happened with Irish descendants either.
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FollowChrist34
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I am not surprised to hear that Catholics are divided. And I do know about radicalized Irish Republican supporters; we actually have a little bit of that in Irish Americans – mostly in New York City and Boston during the troubles. I have Irish from my mother’s side – and my maternal grandmother had nothing to do with any of that. My dad (English/Scottish descent; Protestant (Anglican); short time Catholic convert/atheist) sympathized with the IRA. I used to get lectures about how the Irish in the North didn’t have an army, they were occupied and oppressed, the IRA was all they had, thus a just war. I feel like the key is to clear your head of that – your Catholic faith helps here tremendously once it’s actually authentically applied - but not go too far the other way and become a maniac of the opposite stripe, blind to what are real injustices. You have to develop a truly open, responsible perspective not only on that conflict or Scottish independence, but everything.The Catholic community is as divided as the rest of the country. In my family, which is evenly split between Presbyterian Protestants and Roman Catholics, not one of my Catholic cousins or aunts and uncles is voting “yes”. Interestingly, it is the Protestant part of my family that supports independence.
There is a contingent of Catholics, especially amongst those who call themselves “The Green Brigade” and are a sort of fundamentalist faction of supporters of Celtic Football Club, who are avid Nationalists. The ‘Green Brigade’ hate Britain, Israel and the USA; call themselves “rebels”, glorify the IRA and espouse Marxist Socialism on internet forums. Then many of them go to Mass on a Sunday. Go figure
I wish you luck.
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marymary1975
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The question to me is would Scotland be able to keep itself as an independent country. Is not that easy and I am not sure if from an economical perspective they would be able to. Does someone knows???
Now as to Cataluna (which BTW does have all the means to become an independent nation) I can say that Spain will never ever in its history will allow the independence of either Cataluna or the Basque Country, so in that sense whatever happens in Scotland I can assure everyone that it will not happen in Spain. Spain would start a war first before allowing Cataluna or the Basques go. Spain would be doomed if that ever were to happen
Now as to Cataluna (which BTW does have all the means to become an independent nation) I can say that Spain will never ever in its history will allow the independence of either Cataluna or the Basque Country, so in that sense whatever happens in Scotland I can assure everyone that it will not happen in Spain. Spain would start a war first before allowing Cataluna or the Basques go. Spain would be doomed if that ever were to happen
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GEddie
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Not so much when they become a pretext for fighting and dying.I respectfully disagree.
There can never be too many flags.
Flags are kewl.
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GEddie
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What is so admirable about decentralization?
Most of the technology we love and the infrastructure we rely on to live came about via centralized authorities and economics.
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Darryl1958
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I don’t think it will happen, but that hardly makes it ludicrous.
NATO serves that role now, so it is not as if there isn’t precedent.
And if the trend of American withdrawal continues, Europe will be more responsible for her own defense. Without some kind of European greater defense, the country of ‘Flyspeck’ will not be able to provide defense for itself alone.
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GEddie
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While what you say is true, it is also true that we are not in the 1700s nor the 1900s any more.
Colonialism is gone.
And while it is arguable whether or not resisting colonialism merits an armed struggle (the Tories did have somewhat of a point in 1700s NA), IMNAAHO, in the 2000s, ethnic pride does not in itself merit the formation of another national sovereignty (which is a priori a war-fighting entity) in a world already burdened by too many of them.
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Colonialism is gone.
And while it is arguable whether or not resisting colonialism merits an armed struggle (the Tories did have somewhat of a point in 1700s NA), IMNAAHO, in the 2000s, ethnic pride does not in itself merit the formation of another national sovereignty (which is a priori a war-fighting entity) in a world already burdened by too many of them.
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Vouthon
Guest
Very well spoken my friend and I agree completely. I thank your for your wishes and prayers on behalf of Scotland, as we make this monumental decision
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OrdinaryMelkite
Guest
As long as we have no Scots parading around with pictures of Mel Gibson in a kilt and the Scots shouting “They will never take…our FREEEEEDDDOOOOMMM!!!,” I basically have no stake in this matter or problem with this.
LOL.
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freeRadical
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Why do you assume Scottish independence would lead to a war?
Britain has long oppressed the Scots and Irish. I think they deserve to be free.
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freeRadical
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Some things are worth fighting and dying for. What would you fight and die for?
But I still don’t understand why you think Scottish independence will lead to wars?
Europe doesn’t fear Scottish independence, the EU does. If Scotland become independent, its only a matter of time before Britain withdraws from the EU. I doubt the EU will last much longer seeing as they don’t understand a thing about economics and they have driven the economies of EU member nations into the ground.
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freeRadical
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Why do you want more centralization of power? Hasn’t history taught us the danger of centralized power?
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LoyalViews
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You know, that’s something that crossed my mind a while ago. People tend to forget it because Scotland is attached to England and Wales by land, whereas Eire is not. But even then, that’s right.
I also agree that colonialism is very much with us today.
I also agree that colonialism is very much with us today.
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John_Lazarus
Guest
Well, no, natch.
If you are going to separate a country, this is the way to do it. Like the Czech Republic and Slovakia.
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FollowChrist34
Guest
I am obviously not there in Britain right now; I can only imagine what the tension is like. But I kind of wish the English politicians would take their foot off the pedal a little bit. Even to me it feels a little patronizing. Maybe they should just give the Scots some breathing room from now to the vote. Cast your bread on the waters…
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Pat_Albertson
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Over-reaching politicians have been making decisions which greatly impacted ordinary people and all without giving them any say whatsoever. No votes were taken on policies of great moment, and thus, the rise of independence movements is not in the least surprising.
Independence movements are the only way many people see that they can have any influence at all over their own futures and over unaccountable politicians.
Unaccountable politicians will be less likely to have a malign influence over your future if they are no longer in the same country as you.
Breaking up countries is a way to get back some of the influence you should have had by virtue of exercising your vote within the ordinary political process if policies were able to be put to a vote, which they most often aren’t.
Many ordinary people think that democracy is broken, and that it can’t be fixed within the regular system.
If politicians weren’t so high-handed, these movements probably wouldn’t exist, but it’s too late now. Promises by politicians that they will behave differently in the future are too little too late. Nobody believes them any more.
Independence movements are the only way many people see that they can have any influence at all over their own futures and over unaccountable politicians.
Unaccountable politicians will be less likely to have a malign influence over your future if they are no longer in the same country as you.
Breaking up countries is a way to get back some of the influence you should have had by virtue of exercising your vote within the ordinary political process if policies were able to be put to a vote, which they most often aren’t.
Many ordinary people think that democracy is broken, and that it can’t be fixed within the regular system.
If politicians weren’t so high-handed, these movements probably wouldn’t exist, but it’s too late now. Promises by politicians that they will behave differently in the future are too little too late. Nobody believes them any more.
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GEddie
Guest
So the solution is a new cabal of unaccountable politicians in the new, smaller country?
Which, because it will be smaller, will exert an even greater burden on everybody just to maintain its sovereignty?
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Trader
Guest
Scotland has a smaller population than Indiana. I can’t see us as an independent country unless Obama changes the constitution to get a third term.
If that is what they want, and it can be done peacefully, they can always seek reunion if it does not work out.
If that is what they want, and it can be done peacefully, they can always seek reunion if it does not work out.
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Contra_Mundum_1
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I’m extremely suspicious of the general trend of mega-states that have more and more control over the individual.
I’m not saying that a small country equals direct democracy but at least there is hope for more decision-making by the citizens. In big countries that is simply impossible. I think this is the only way democracy can actually work, when peoples’ votes actually make a difference. The versions of democracy in the US and a number of other western countries is a joke imho.
I see the independence referendum in Scotland as exactly that: an exercise in democracy. I think this is how it should be, people having the freedom to decide, although I personally hope that they vote to stay in the union. I don’t think this is an unreasonable position to hold.
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