Europe Slding Down the Slippery Slope at Top Speed

[Marie]

Correct Lisa. The problem is that todays society, does not know what is Moral and acceptable, from what is Murder and Sin.

Evangelium vitae

Abortion and euthanasia have become preeminent threats to human dignity because they directly attack life itself, the most fundamental human good and the condition for all others. They are committed against those who are weakest and most defenseless, those who are genuinely “the poorest of the poor.” They are endorsed increasingly without the veil of euphemism, as supporters of abortion and euthanasia freely concede these are killing even as they promote them. Sadly, they are practiced in those communities which ordinarily provide a safe haven for the weak – the family and the healing professions. Such direct attacks on human life, once crimes, are today legitimized by governments sworn to protect the weak and marginalized.

Living the Gospel of Life:

 

[maklavan]

No need for Europe to worry, they will always find the USA underneath to give them a soft landing!

 

[Lance]

Stephen-Maguire:

Yes, saw this on the news yesterday,pretty diabolicial one of the reasons why I resent Brussels, they have too much power.
I didn’t have a vote when we joined the EEC, still at school, all this will do is draw down the wrath of God on us, and we deserve it, pity the innocent have to suffer too.

It’s not just Europe that is sick, this planet is in a bad mess.

Stephen, I congratulate you. You are one of the very few Europeans who will admit that the EU is not perfect, yet they seem very willing to throw stones at the US. In our last phone conversation with my wife’s relatives in Italy when they found that we are conservative Republicans who voted for Bush the conversation was cut short and they implied that we were thinking like Neanderthals. When it comes to European policy the US should either agree or shut up but they have a perfect right to criticize and correct us.

 

[HagiaSophia]

Marie:

No thanks! I prefer to Bloom where I am Planted. In my younger days, I might have been interested, but had no money and too many responsibilities. Now, I just don’t care for travel.

As to health care. I think it may be a mixed bag. It depends on where in Europe you might travel. I have heard some good things and some bad things on that one. Insurance Companies usually have a list of places to avoid and places which are good for Health Care issues.

My favorite travel advice is the paperwork we rec’d prior to our arrival in a nation (which I shall not name) don’t buy shoes and if you become ill, go to another nation for medical care. We laughed so hard.

 

[Zoot]

Lisa N:

The article referred to a paralyzed man whose mother attempted to help him commit suicide. When the attempt failed and the man was left in a coma, the doctors basically unplugged life support and he died. This was apparently a catalyst for the new law.

I think the issue is that the PATIENT did not request that treatment cease. One might ASSUME that was his wish but in taking away the patient’s right to speak or make a directive, that act stepped over the line. Although the letter of the law says a patient must give the directive, it’s clear that the letter is not being followed. This brings the “slippery slope” argument into play.

I spoke to a Catholic ethicist regarding “heroic measures.” For example when my father was dying of metastatic lung cancer, he had a DNR directive. IOW he gave EXPLICIT instructions that should his heart cease they were not to ressusitate. The ethicist said that was perfectly OK. Also pallative care without continuing active treatment such as with a cancer patient who has run out of options, is also fine. IOW there is no point in continuing to aggressively treat a patient if the treatment is not having any effect and may have painful side effects. However not aggressively treating is much different than active “assistance” in dying or withholding food, water or pain medication.

Lisa N

While we know little about either the law or the paralyzed guy, it’s arguable that this type of law moves away from the slippery slope.

The danger at the bottom of the slippery slope is that the individual is not in control of his treatment. This gives someone else the authority to direct the death of a patient. The more we entrench the notion that the individual is in control, not someone else, the safer we will be from involuntary euthanasia.

No system that relies on individual control will be perfect, and there always will be cases where the individual’s wish is unknown. However, we can move as close to the ideal as possible.

 

[Emmy]

Lisa N:

I spoke to a Catholic ethicist regarding “heroic measures.” For example when my father was dying of metastatic lung cancer, he had a DNR directive. IOW he gave EXPLICIT instructions that should his heart cease they were not to ressusitate. The ethicist said that was perfectly OK. Also pallative care without continuing active treatment such as with a cancer patient who has run out of options, is also fine. IOW there is no point in continuing to aggressively treat a patient if the treatment is not having any effect and may have painful side effects. Lisa N

Isn´t this called passive euthanasia?
At least with these reasons I can live with.

Emmy

 

[Stephen-Maguire]

Lance:

Stephen, I congratulate you. You are one of the very few Europeans who will admit that the EU is not perfect, yet they seem very willing to throw stones at the US. In our last phone conversation with my wife’s relatives in Italy when they found that we are conservative Republicans who voted for Bush the conversation was cut short and they implied that we were thinking like Neanderthals. When it comes to European policy the US should either agree or shut up but they have a perfect right to criticize and correct us.

Thanks, but I would go further and say this whole European thing is a part of the antichrist’s plan to bring in all kinds of things.
Abortion, Euthenasia, stem cell research, and I was reading about trade in organs taken from street children, in many parts of the world.
This is pure evil, homeless children probably injected there and then to put them to sleep, then they steal their kidneys, heart, liver, and whatever else. eamosspromotions.co.uk/globe.html

Anyway I don’t see this as being a USA against the world thing, on this forum there is a lot of stone throwing, but after we’ve finished throwing stones, the problem is still there.
I see it from a Catholic point of view, we should be united in our condemanation from whatever part of the globe evil comes from.
I don’t single out the USA or any othe part of the world, I see it as a global problem, that we would be far better off uniting against Abortion etc: from wherever it comes from.
What would we think if the Pope only spoke out about problems in Italy or his beloved Poland, he speaks out about it from no-matter where it takes place in the world, and I think as Catholics & Christians we should too.
It doesn’t look too good to onlookers when we have in- fighting, like what happened carolmarie last week, it surley doesn’t give an impression of unity.
I’m concerned about the human rights abuse in China too, some dreadful stories coming out of there too.
I’m also wondering what can be done about it, I hate to think that we are buying Chinese products, when all that is going on.
And a lot of Americian jobs are dissappearing to China, seems like money is the root of all evil, and some people have no scruples when it comes to buying these dictators products.

eamosspromotions.co.uk/china.html

The pictures in this link are not nice, you’ve been warned.
(Question) Can anyone tell me what is the position of world leaders with regard to doing trade with China, in light of it’s human rights abuses ? IE: who is trading with China ?
Thanks Stephen

 

[Zoot]

Stephen-Maguire:

Thanks, but I would go further and say this whole European thing is a part of the antichrist’s plan to bring in all kinds of things.
Abortion, Euthenasia, stem cell research, and I was reading about trade in organs taken from street children, in many parts of the world.
This is pure evil, homeless children probably injected there and then to put them to sleep, then they steal their kidneys, heart, liver, and whatever else. eamosspromotions.co.uk/globe.html

Anyway I don’t see this as being a USA against the world thing, on this forum there is a lot of stone throwing, but after we’ve finished throwing stones, the problem is still there.
I see it from a Catholic point of view, we should be united in our condemanation from whatever part of the globe evil comes from.
I don’t single out the USA or any othe part of the world, I see it as a global problem, that we would be far better off uniting against Abortion etc: from wherever it comes from.
What would we think if the Pope only spoke out about problems in Italy or his beloved Poland, he speaks out about it from no-matter where it takes place in the world, and I think as Catholics & Christians we should too.
It doesn’t look too good to onlookers when we have in- fighting, like what happened carolmarie last week, it surley doesn’t give an impression of unity.
I’m concerned about the human rights abuse in China too, some dreadful stories coming out of there too.
I’m also wondering what can be done about it, I hate to think that we are buying Chinese products, when all that is going on.
And a lot of Americian jobs are dissappearing to China, seems like money is the root of all evil, and some people have no scruples when it comes to buying these dictators products.

eamosspromotions.co.uk/china.html

The pictures in this link are not nice, you’ve been warned.
(Question) Can anyone tell me what is the position of world leaders with regard to doing trade with China, in light of it’s human rights abuses ? IE: who is trading with China ?

Thanks Stephen

Who is the Anti-Christ? What’s his name? Where does he live?

 

[Stephen-Maguire]

Zoot:

Who is the Anti-Christ? What’s his name? Where does he live?

Anyone that is against Christ is Anti Christ.

 

[Zoot]

Stephen-Maguire:

Anyone that is against Christ is Anti Christ.

Does that mean there are many anti-Christs? Can you name one?

 

[Brendan]

Lance:

Stephen, I congratulate you. You are one of the very few Europeans who will admit that the EU is not perfect, yet they seem very willing to throw stones at the US. In our last phone conversation with my wife’s relatives in Italy when they found that we are conservative Republicans who voted for Bush the conversation was cut short and they implied that we were thinking like Neanderthals. When it comes to European policy the US should either agree or shut up but they have a perfect right to criticize and correct us.

My Irish cousins were all pretty pleased with my vote for Bush; I did have to tell them earlier in campaign that Kerry was pro-choice (and not Irish )

 

[Lance]

Zoot:

Does that mean there are many anti-Christs? Can you name one?

Timothy McVeigh, Osama bin Laden, Yasser Arafat, Sadam Hussein and anyother suicide bomber.

 

[Lisa_N]

Zoot:

No system that relies on individual control will be perfect, and there always will be cases where the individual’s wish is unknown. However, we can move as close to the ideal as possible.

Unfortunately I believe that even if the individual is in charge by law, this assumes the individual has capacity to make a decision. The Dutch baby euthanasia as well as the situation with the man in a coma by definition take the decision away from the individual as he has no capacity to act or make a decision.

The ideal would be that if an individual doesn’t or cannot make a directive then no “passive euthanasia” under the guise that is what the person would have wanted should he have been able to make the decision.

Lisa N

 

[Brendan]

Lance:

Timothy McVeigh, Osama bin Laden, Yasser Arafat, Sadam Hussein and anyother suicide bomber.

Actually, it’s pretty probable that McVeigh went straight to heaven at his death.

A priest heard his confession right before the execution. He also received Viticatum and Last Rites, which includes the Apostolic Blessing (a plenary indulgence)

 

[Fitz]

Steph700:

Europe is great, I love all the travels I have had here. My only wish is that more than 15% of the American population would have a passport- and use it!!

I love travelling in Europe also, but have been reluctant to go lately as you can imagine. However, just what do you mean that you wish 15% of all Americans should use a passport? Not getting your intention here…

 

[Fitz]

maklavan:

No need for Europe to worry, they will always find the USA underneath to give them a soft landing!

What?

 

[Brendan]

Fitz:

I love travelling in Europe also, but have been reluctant to go lately as you can imagine. However, just what do you mean that you wish 15% of all Americans should use a passport? Not getting your intention here…

About 15% of American Citizens have a passport. I believe she is hoping that more of those citizens actually use it and travel abroad.

( I’ve got both Irish and US passports , really handy for going through the EU line at customs when everyone else on the plane is stuck going through the ‘Foreign’ line. My wife is Canadian, so my kids have Irish, US and Canadian passports )

 

[Fitz]

Brendan:

About 15% of American Citizens have a passport. I believe she is hoping that more of those citizens actually use it and travel abroad.

( I’ve got both Irish and US passports , really handy for going through the EU line at customs when everyone else on the plane is stuck going through the ‘Foreign’ line. My wife is Canadian, so my kids have Irish, US and Canadian passports )

Yeah, I would like to skip the lines too. They are oppressive! I just took my daughter down to the Spanish counselate to get a visa since she will be studying there for 6 months. I am jealous and a little nervous for her.

 

[Stephen-Maguire]

Zoot:

Does that mean there are many anti-Christs? Can you name one?

Yes, the Maitreya, shareintl.org/maitreya/Ma_main.htm He will decieve many, “Who is like the Beast” ?

Don’t try to catch me out, because you know what ?

You won’t.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Zoot:

Does that mean there are many anti-Christs? Can you name one?

Anyone who works for the ACLU, Ted Turner, Rosie O’Donnell, the mayor of San Fransisco, the Massechussets Supreme Court, anyone who considers themselves a communist. Thats my incredibly short list of people who just popped into my head.