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anon52328184
Guest
i think ed makes a good point. i don’t understand what you mean by it is somebody else’s turn.
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Augustine
Guest
I’ve been trying to understand the root of what happened in the 60’s, and although I cannot put my finger on it, I know for sure that it’s not in the 60’s itself, but in the 50’s and probably further in the past.
It just cannot be that babyboomers decided in their late teens to early 20’s to rebel just like that. I suspect that the general affluence in the post-WWII America nudged values down, followed by the remains of the scandal that WWII was itself, when the established authorities not only failed to avoid this human tragedy, but to a certain extent promoted it by their prepotence, arrogance and ambition, mining the general confidence in authority, including God’s.
I’ve never seen a history of beliefs in America after WWII, but I suspect that the scandal of WWII put many off with God Himself, probably coming from poor catechesis on the nature of evil.
Now, I find it interesting that even when affluence is not present, but desired, the same changes in values and mores can be observed, as is the case of much of the underdeveloped world. In essence, as the Lord said, love of money is the root of all evil.
Or so I muse…
It just cannot be that babyboomers decided in their late teens to early 20’s to rebel just like that. I suspect that the general affluence in the post-WWII America nudged values down, followed by the remains of the scandal that WWII was itself, when the established authorities not only failed to avoid this human tragedy, but to a certain extent promoted it by their prepotence, arrogance and ambition, mining the general confidence in authority, including God’s.
I’ve never seen a history of beliefs in America after WWII, but I suspect that the scandal of WWII put many off with God Himself, probably coming from poor catechesis on the nature of evil.
Now, I find it interesting that even when affluence is not present, but desired, the same changes in values and mores can be observed, as is the case of much of the underdeveloped world. In essence, as the Lord said, love of money is the root of all evil.
Or so I muse…
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Augustine
Guest
I disagree, Capitalism started in Catholic Flanders and Venice before the Reformation. Many doctors actually paved the way for Capitalist economics, especially through the defense of private property, interest and profits.
What perhaps the Protestants did to push Capitalism, perhaps to its current form devoid of moral principles, was the Calvinist idea almost equated wealth with holiness.
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Cinette
Guest
Jesus’ suffering on the cross is his great gift to us. We Christians, in turn, offer our sufferings to him and this has great redemptive power.My husband and I experienced suffering and today we have forgiven and have greatfull hearts. We are very happy. We have learned much.
I believe the Jewish people know much about suffering. Whether they have applied their suffering to improve their lives I do not know. I am close to a Jewish woman who has many problems and I help and pray for her as much as I can. The Jewish Board of Deputies help their people. Suffering focuses a person. Affluence can muddy the waters and one can get lost in materialism.
I woke up this morning very early and was thinking of the subject of this thread. Recently I was able to watch all the programmes on EWTN of the World Youth Day (WYD) in Australia. What an incredible experience. I know two young people who attended. This is something marvellous towards the formation of the youth! The previous WYD was held in Munich and I was able to watch this also. JPII’s idea of WYD over 20 years ago has yielded much fruit - many conversions, vocations, teachings. The youth are on fire.
The next WYD will be held in Madrid and I am going to begin to pray as from now for its success. Benedict XVI is a very special man, a great teacher and scholar, a fine example. Perhaps he will help ignite the youth of Europe. After all where else does our hope lie? In our children.
So I invite you all to also pray for the youth of the world, that through their formation they will be able to lead the next generation into a world revitalised in Faith and Morals.:byzsoc:
“Blue”]
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anon52328184
Guest
i guess you could look back to what they call the roaring 20’s here in america.
there was always that part of society that wanted to do what it wanted and not have to answer to any religion or moral code.
of course, there was the depression in the 30’s, and then the war in the 40’s,
then in the 50’s and 60’s life improved for everyone.
i don’t how long it took europe to rebuild after the war.
i think the generations born after the war knew more privilege. there was new technology, television, elvis, the beatles, the birth control pill, abortion and before long it was a generation that wanted to live by its own rules (and didn’t want to be identified with the previous generations), the hippies, make love not war. in the united states, the culture underwent many changes in the civil rights and feminist movements.
maybe as each century begins, there is a struggle and by the middle of each century there is the mid-century crisis, i don’t know, as the people go into the later half of the century. the 1950’s were very different than the 1900’s.
there had been a lot of advancement in 50 years.
these are just some of my thoughts. maybe it comes from wanting to be free of having to answer to a higher authority.
there was always that part of society that wanted to do what it wanted and not have to answer to any religion or moral code.
of course, there was the depression in the 30’s, and then the war in the 40’s,
then in the 50’s and 60’s life improved for everyone.
i don’t how long it took europe to rebuild after the war.
i think the generations born after the war knew more privilege. there was new technology, television, elvis, the beatles, the birth control pill, abortion and before long it was a generation that wanted to live by its own rules (and didn’t want to be identified with the previous generations), the hippies, make love not war. in the united states, the culture underwent many changes in the civil rights and feminist movements.
maybe as each century begins, there is a struggle and by the middle of each century there is the mid-century crisis, i don’t know, as the people go into the later half of the century. the 1950’s were very different than the 1900’s.
there had been a lot of advancement in 50 years.
these are just some of my thoughts. maybe it comes from wanting to be free of having to answer to a higher authority.
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anon52328184
Guest
i agree with all that you said. yes, the Jewish people have known suffering for thousands of years. i believe the word israel means struggle or conflict.Jesus’ suffering on the cross is his great gift to us. We Christians, in turn, offer our sufferings to him and this has great redemptive power.My husband and I experienced suffering and today we have forgiven and have greatfull hearts. We are very happy. We have learned much.
I believe the Jewish people know much about suffering. Whether they have applied their suffering to improve their lives I do not know. I am close to a Jewish woman who has many problems and I help and pray for her as much as I can. The Jewish Board of Deputies help their people. Suffering focuses a person. Affluence can muddy the waters and one can get lost in materialism.
I woke up this morning very early and was thinking of the subject of this thread. Recently I was able to watch all the programmes on EWTN of the World Youth Day (WYD) in Australia. What an incredible experience. I know two young people who attended. This is something marvellous towards the formation of the youth! The previous WYD was held in Munich and I was able to watch this also. JPII’s idea of WYD over 20 years ago has yielded much fruit - many conversions, vocations, teachings. The youth are on fire.
The next WYD will be held in Madrid and I am going to begin to pray as from now for its success. Benedict XVI is a very special man, a great teacher and scholar, a fine example. Perhaps he will help ignite the youth of Europe. After all where else does our hope lie? In our children.
So I invite you all to also pray for the youth of the world, that through their formation they will be able to lead the next generation into a world revitalised in Faith and Morals.:byzsoc:
i believe in the Jewish faith they face the same problem as many christian religions. there are many Jews who only go to synagogue on the high holidays just as there are many Christians who do not go to church except on Christmas and Easter.
trying to keep the religion revitalized. there are many different branches of judaism now and they are encouraged to raise their children to carry on the Jewish faith. just as we need to pray for the youth of europe and that the next WYD will
inspire more young people. i read that some are critical of the money spent on WYD, but when you see the impact it has on the lives of the youth. they are the ones we are passing the torch to.
i wonder what the world will be like by the time the WYD comes to Madrid!
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Ed_Rand
Guest
We all know that we sons of Abraham have each had our turn as oppressors, most often of eachother. Let’s not forget that there are Muslims who suffer much injustice at the hands of Jews at the moment.
True Christians have had their turn in the past–before we turned on eachother–and they will have it again. One day, the Body of Christ will be brought together and will again function as a whole. It will be our turn, and it will be our passion.
The chastisement will bring us together. This is the gift.
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Cinette
Guest
We have just witnessed the Olympics in China. This has been at great cost to China. People were exploited and abused in the process. HUGE sums of money were spent but even GREATER suffering and abuse where 1.4m people were forced to “volunteer” their services (without payment of course). There were men who had to wear diapers for 7 hours as they participated in some of the “events”. There are some really ugly stories.
Today the stadiums of football have become like great “cathedrals” to the masses of fans. If these people would adore God the way they adore football. If they were more God-centered what a world it would be!:extrahappy:
Certainly WWII brought a lot of suffering and then came so much destructive affluence. I hope we can LEARN from this.
I would like the people who manufacture arms and ammunition to think of the terrible harm they are doing. They will have much to answer for - there will be a day of reckoning for them.
Is there a list of companies who produce arms? Could we not obtain a list and pray for these people to turn attention to more constructive engagement - like food production and fighting global warming? Should they not try to PRESERVE instead of DESTROY? The massive destruction they contribute towards is inconceivable - never mind the weapons of mass destruction - just the machine guns and grenades do more than enough damage if not more:bigyikes:
:crying:
Today the stadiums of football have become like great “cathedrals” to the masses of fans. If these people would adore God the way they adore football. If they were more God-centered what a world it would be!:extrahappy:
Certainly WWII brought a lot of suffering and then came so much destructive affluence. I hope we can LEARN from this.
I would like the people who manufacture arms and ammunition to think of the terrible harm they are doing. They will have much to answer for - there will be a day of reckoning for them.
Is there a list of companies who produce arms? Could we not obtain a list and pray for these people to turn attention to more constructive engagement - like food production and fighting global warming? Should they not try to PRESERVE instead of DESTROY? The massive destruction they contribute towards is inconceivable - never mind the weapons of mass destruction - just the machine guns and grenades do more than enough damage if not more:bigyikes:
:crying:
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anon52328184
Guest
i agree with you cinette about the cathedrals which are the sports stadiums.We have just witnessed the Olympics in China. This has been at great cost to China. People were exploited and abused in the process. HUGE sums of money were spent but even GREATER suffering and abuse where 1.4m people were forced to “volunteer” their services (without payment of course). There were men who had to wear diapers for 7 hours as they participated in some of the “events”. There are some really ugly stories.
Today the stadiums of football have become like great “cathedrals” to the masses of fans. If these people would adore God the way they adore football. If they were more God-centered what a world it would be!:extrahappy:
Certainly WWII brought a lot of suffering and then came so much destructive affluence. I hope we can LEARN from this.
I would like the people who manufacture arms and ammunition to think of the terrible harm they are doing. They will have much to answer for - there will be a day of reckoning for them. The massive destruction they contribute towards is inconceivable - never mind the weapons of mass destruction - just the machine guns and grenades do more than enough damage if not more:bigyikes:
athletes, celebrities, politicians. they are all put on pedestals and lavished with gifts and attentions and huge salaries. they are distractions. the rest of us live mundane lives compared to them. we are worshipping idols more than worshipping God in the world today.
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Kaninchen
Guest
K
Kaninchen
Guest
I’m sure that you’ll always take every opportunity to present us with your ‘gift’.
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Cinette
Guest
You say mundane lives but would you really choose their lives?
When you look at a sunset I bet you see it in all its splendour and that your heart swells!
I know of a billionaire (I won’t mention his name) who was on business in south Africa and instead of taking in the beauty around him he was busy with his taptop and talking on his mobile while being driven around some stunning places. He was too busy making more money!
We experience God. We receive the Eucharist. We gain insight into our Faith which we can pass on to others and other generations. We have a treasure. Do they? We are spiritually enriched as we live out our Faith.
So Deborah let us give Praise to Him who loves us and think of the promises to come. Our lives here is just a journey.
:yup: :dancing: :bounce:
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Cinette
Guest
I am pleased to know that
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Isa_Almisry
Guest
Not to be nit picky, but there is an Eastern Europe, which is as European (actually more, as the term first applied there) as the West.The thread is focusing on Catholic Western European countries, as the thread title states.
You don’t have Western in the thread title.
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Cinette
Guest
Great - Eastern Europe. This is wonderful. We can learn a lot! But from which country? Your country is not reflected in th top corner of the page.
Please introduce yourself and tell us all you have on your mind and heart
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DAPDN
Guest
Very good! How could I possibly forget that! And let’s remind, too, that, in what concerns to one of the biggest and unexpendable triggers to capitalism and to free-market - the banking business - the first world’s banking institution was founded in Italy in the medieval ages, a very Catholic country at that time, and still in our days.I disagree, Capitalism started in Catholic Flanders and Venice before the Reformation. Many doctors actually paved the way for Capitalist economics, especially through the defense of private property, interest and profits.
What perhaps the Protestants did to push Capitalism, perhaps to its current form devoid of moral principles, was the Calvinist idea almost equated wealth with holiness.
Oh, and one of the world’s first schools of Economy started at the University of Salamanca, in the 16th Century - guiding the study of a new economic phenomenon, among many, the inflation, triggered by the coming of gold and plate from the Spanish colonies in the New World. So, yes! Great remark! We might as well say that Capitalism and Corporations were invented by the Catholic culture.
On the other hand, still, the more liberal (at the 16th Century) politcal environment that England and the United Provinces of the Netherlands provided to its inhabitants, providing freedom of establishment and freedom of economic initiative, was in fact what gave greater impulse to the Capitalist first global economy. And that is a fact, that later the Holy Mother Church came to recognize, too, by, for example, giving permission for lending money while charging interest rates.
So true. Amen to that!
I make Cinette’s words mine! Welcome! Let us all hear from you and also about the situation about Eastern Christianity! To start with it, let us now: are you a Eastern Catholic or an Orthodox Christian?
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anon52328184
Guest
i know there are many athletes who are very spiritual, there is jim caviezel who was Jesus in the mel gibson movie and is a devoted catholic, and i am sure there are some politicans out there who actually practice their faith and have a deep understanding about it, unlike nancy pelosi. yes, i would say that my life is mundane compared to theirs. there are some, that take for granted the athletic skills they have, definitely celebrities who have lost their way, and politicians who are corrupt, but i think there are many that realize that God blessed them in a special way and they have a chance to use it in order to help others. they can be spokespersons for various charities or medical organizations, they can help raise money, they want to give back to society in exchange for the way their lives have been blessed. granted, a lot of responsibility comes with their fame, but they get a lot of perks too. that doesn’t mean that they are any different to God, we are all His children.
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anon52328184
Guest
how are muslims suffering injustice at the hands of the Jews at the moment?
i don’t see where you are coming from there. I believe there are muslims suffering injustice because of the action of other muslims. i was also wondering if perhaps Christianity or Catholicism might be stronger in eastern europe and if there is the spread of Islam in eastern europe as there is in western europe.
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anon52328184
Guest
i have to admit that my knowledge of geography and current affairs of eastern europe is not very good.
i did think that there were some countries which were muslim. albania and i am not sure if chechnya is a country yet, but i know the muslim extremists from chechnya have caused many problems in russia.
so we must pray for the revitalization of catholicism and christianity in eastern europe as well as western europe and also russia and china.
it seems wherever christians and muslims reside in close proximity, there are tensions, unfortunately.
i did think that there were some countries which were muslim. albania and i am not sure if chechnya is a country yet, but i know the muslim extremists from chechnya have caused many problems in russia.
so we must pray for the revitalization of catholicism and christianity in eastern europe as well as western europe and also russia and china.
it seems wherever christians and muslims reside in close proximity, there are tensions, unfortunately.
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DAPDN
Guest
True, but still, there are a few Eastern Catholic Churches. And I’d like to know about the situation there - if it is as bad as in Western and Central Europe, in what concerns to Western Catholicism.
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