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WhiteDove
Guest
So what if folks brag? Just ignore them. No point in scolding. People brag because they feel insecure. Maybe they are compensating for an inferiority problem.
***Europe's debt to the U.S. (History's other great relief effort)
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Emmy
Guest
Just thinking it is good to be more humble…
Anyway am getting ready to work so God bless…
Emmy
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WhiteDove
Guest
Proverbs 12:16
The vexation of a fool is known at once, but the prudent man ignores an insult.
Proverbs 14:7
Leave the presence of a fool, for there you do not meet words of knowledge.
Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are pure in his own eyes, but the LORD weighs the spirit.
Proverbs 16:18
Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.
Proverbs 18:12
Before destruction a man’s heart is haughty, but humility goes before honor.
Proverbs 21:24
“Scoffer” is the name of the proud, haughty man who acts with arrogant pride.
The vexation of a fool is known at once, but the prudent man ignores an insult.
Proverbs 14:7
Leave the presence of a fool, for there you do not meet words of knowledge.
Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are pure in his own eyes, but the LORD weighs the spirit.
Proverbs 16:18
Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.
Proverbs 18:12
Before destruction a man’s heart is haughty, but humility goes before honor.
Proverbs 21:24
“Scoffer” is the name of the proud, haughty man who acts with arrogant pride.
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Francesco
Guest
Aye, dear Emmy;Sorry don´t know the expression chip off my shoulder.
And I know the rest of the world gives voluntairly tonly I will never brag: We are the best… We are the most this… we are the most that… will leave that up to you guys. I think being more humble wouldn´t do any harm.
Emmy
You might not brag (debateable) but you seem to have no qualms about judging others. As you are free to give and give freely to the causes of YOUR choice, so should you accept the rights of others to do so on both counts.
It is no brag to state the obvious that in both WWI and WWII, it was the indirect and direct aid by the USA that forced the outcomes in both to be beneficial to most of Europe and as a result, detrimental to the Germans (with their Allies). Readings of neutral historical analysis generally illustrate this contention.
Why is a simple “Thank you!” so hard to say? Is it really necessary to look for something negative to say about citizens of the USA, no matter what the context of the discussion?
Peace to you and may our Lord grant you a future in which you are freed from the requirement of ever needing our help.
Francesco
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jsk
Guest
Reading through this thread, it reminds me too much of some of the venomous threads in the “Politics” forum during the last presidential election.
A couple of years ago, I made a friend from Bremen, Germany. My father had been a flight engineer in a B-17 bombing Germany, his father had been a Luftwaffe pilot who flew most aircraft the Germans had at the time, including the Me262 jet, an aircraft which shot down my father’s aircraft.
Wolfgang talked about his early childhood memories, being 4 years old and having to move with his mother to stay ahead of the Russian advance, the return of his father 7 months after the war, the poverty in post war Germany, and also of the Marshall Plan Packages he received and the generosity of the Americans and other allies which kept them alive.
Because of generosity, Wolfgang and I were able to become good friends only one generation after a bitter war between our nations.
We all need to be grateful for assistance we receive when we need it, and willing to give assistance when someone else needs it. These are not debts to be repaid, these are acts of generosity to be passed on to the next party in need. Remember, we once received aid from France during the American Revolution, and I am grateful to France for that aid.
One of the things that has really impressed me is how cheap charity is compared to war. How much money has been spent on Tsunami relief compared to the Gulf War? Unfortunately, war is sometimes justified. Wolfgang said even his father stated that the Nazi’s needed to be destroyed, and was greateful that the allies destroyed the Nazis and brought freedom to Germany. But how many wars could be avoided with a policy which emphasized more charity and less malice?
We need to stop livining the past. We need to learn from the past, and make the future better.
A couple of years ago, I made a friend from Bremen, Germany. My father had been a flight engineer in a B-17 bombing Germany, his father had been a Luftwaffe pilot who flew most aircraft the Germans had at the time, including the Me262 jet, an aircraft which shot down my father’s aircraft.
Wolfgang talked about his early childhood memories, being 4 years old and having to move with his mother to stay ahead of the Russian advance, the return of his father 7 months after the war, the poverty in post war Germany, and also of the Marshall Plan Packages he received and the generosity of the Americans and other allies which kept them alive.
Because of generosity, Wolfgang and I were able to become good friends only one generation after a bitter war between our nations.
We all need to be grateful for assistance we receive when we need it, and willing to give assistance when someone else needs it. These are not debts to be repaid, these are acts of generosity to be passed on to the next party in need. Remember, we once received aid from France during the American Revolution, and I am grateful to France for that aid.
One of the things that has really impressed me is how cheap charity is compared to war. How much money has been spent on Tsunami relief compared to the Gulf War? Unfortunately, war is sometimes justified. Wolfgang said even his father stated that the Nazi’s needed to be destroyed, and was greateful that the allies destroyed the Nazis and brought freedom to Germany. But how many wars could be avoided with a policy which emphasized more charity and less malice?
We need to stop livining the past. We need to learn from the past, and make the future better.
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Faustina
Guest
Emmy-
It comes across to me as well.
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Faustina
Guest
Yes, it generally is better to be humble. However, when a country is bashed by other countries for being “stingy” then it does bear a reminder of what the people of the that country has done in the past.
I got this recently in an email. For those out there not familar with the term “redneck” think rural American:
About those REDNECKS…
We have enjoyed the redneck jokes for years. It’s time
to take a reflective look at the core beliefs of a
culture that values home, family, country and God. If
I had to stand before a dozen terrorists who threaten
my life, I’d choose a half dozen or so rednecks to
back me up. Tire irons, squirrel guns and grit –
that’s what rednecks are made of. I hope I am one of
those. If you feel the same, pass this on to your
redneck friends. Ya’ll know who ya’ are…
You might be a redneck if:
Ø It never occurred to you to be offended by the
phrase, “One nation, under God.”
Ø You’ve never protested about seeing the 10
Commandments posted in public places.
Ø You still say “Christmas” instead of “Winter
Festival.”
Ø You bow your head when someone prays.
Ø You stand and place your hand over your heart
when they play the National Anthem.
Ø You treat Viet Nam vets with great respect, and
always have.
Ø You’ve never burned an American flag.
Ø You know what you believe and you aren’t afraid
to say so, no matter who is listening.
Ø You respect your elders and expect your kids to
do the same.
Ø **You’d give your last dollar to a friend. **
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Emmy
Guest
Ofcourse I am gratefull to the US, UK, Canada etc. who set us free, but that doesn´t mean I have to agree with everything the US does.
Emmy
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Emmy
Guest
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Norwich
Guest
And therein lie the problem. What the people on this site want is not a simple thank you. That’s been said so many times over the last 60 years (yes it was 60 years ago). Not yesterday, not the day before but 60 years ago. What they seem to want, (or at least a fair number of them) is for everyone to keep patting them on the back and tell them what wonderful people they are and how everyone should be grateful for what they have done. But what they have done is no more or less than anyone else in the world. They talk about how much was raised for the Tsunami relief fund but ALL developed nations raised monies and if you look at the relative values some raised more per head of population than others. America was not the highest. Some also raised it quicker, America was not the fastest, BUT EVERYBODY DID RAISE MONIES!!!
Now, if history is good enough that the world must keep saying thank you for the assistance in two world wars how about acknowledging the debt America owes to all the countries of the world that sent their sons and daughters to America in the first place. Thank Britain for starting the first colonies, the people who landed on Plymouth Rock came from the UK, or the Italian communities that formed the first parts of New York. Or the Irish for inhabiting the New York police for many years, or the Chinese for building the trans continental railroad through the mountains.
The problem of course, is it becomes a nonsense and all this self congratulations gets in the way of being honest with both yourself and others. Now on this forum I continually get accused of being anti American, mainly because I question the self adulation that goes on and point out that the rest of the world does not always agree with EVERYTHING America does. Some things, in fact many things are very good about America and Europe could learn from them, but equally so America could learn many things from Europe not least being diplomacy and patience. Unfortunately a lack of patience is the enemy of learning and this is often the crux of the problems between Americans and Europeans.
Another of my little stories.
Roosevelt, Stalin and Churchill were in conference beside a fish pond. Someone looked at the fish in the pond and asked how to catch them effectively and eat then afterwards.
Stalin pulled out his gun and started shooting, but because of the difraction of light he couldn’t hit them.
Roosvelt suugested throwing a bomb into the water, but they pointed out that would probably spread this fish all over the countryside.
Churchill took up a spoon and started emptying the pond a spoon at a time, “it may take a long time he said but eventually the pond will be empty and the fish can be picked up by hand”.
Patience you see is a wonderful tool, especialy when dealing with diplomats and politicians.
(ps. what the difference between a diplomat and a politician?
A diplomay is a man with an ever open mind,
A politician is a man with an ever open mouth!! )
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YesORno
Guest
Maybe Emmy and Norwich can find a European themed message board where they can feel free bash America and Americans.
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Norwich
Guest
Now theres someone who either Speed Reads, or cant.
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aimee
Guest
Well, Well, Well…it seems bad pennies do turn up
See your back, Norwich.
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Norwich
Guest
Yup, the little needle that likes to prick conciences, bubbles and ego’s. Thats me.Well, Well, Well…it seems bad pennies do turn up
See your back, Norwich.
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Emmy
Guest
I thought this was open for everybody. And I am not here to bash America or Americans. But if you can criticize Europe why can´t we criticize America. Maybe measuring with double standards here?
Emmy
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Trelow
Guest
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YesORno
Guest
And I am not here to bash America or Americans.
yes, you have American friends? Right?? Sounds like a person who says, but I have black friends!
Norwich, I can read. I simply know when I see someone who is intent on bashing America and Americans.
yes, you have American friends? Right?? Sounds like a person who says, but I have black friends!
Norwich, I can read. I simply know when I see someone who is intent on bashing America and Americans.
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Pious_Redeemer
Guest
I guess this very interesting thread has ‘died’ so to speak already, but I’m quite new here, and I just wanted to say, as a young European: this person here really hit ‘the nail on the head’, IMHO.
I’d like to add that the efforts of the allies during both WW’s are not forgotten over here. Remember ‘Flanders Fields’? Every year, we commemorate the liberating efforts of our allies that took place during WW I, and allied War Veterans are most welcomed and respected to join the humble commemorations that are held here in tiny Belgium. Another commemoration known among Americans that is being held here is the commemoration of ‘The Battle of the Ardens - The Battle of the Bulge’ during december 1944. Many American, British, Canadian, … War Veterans come over here to remember and share their memories with each other and with local Europeans with whom they have established an eternal mutual friendship.
We will never forget the efforts of yourselves, your fathers, grandfathers, etc… in order to liberate Europe from “anti-life” ideological regimes! I hope our nations, as President Bush pointed out just yesterday (during his three day visit to Belgium) can see past our differences and stand quote: “as one voice” against agressive regimes that take innocent lives - granted we ourselves will not be tempted to do the same -, because, as he rightfully pointed out, Americans and Europeans do share many same values and goals (allthough we might have a difference of opinion on the means to implement these values and to reach our common goals).
I myself am a dictionary ‘late descendant’ - I was born when my mother was 40. My parents were about 8 and 12 in 1940. My father used to say to me when I was a little boy, that the Germans had a fierce and very disciplined army during our occupation - you could hear their army boots hit the ground in one single, massive ‘drum sound’. The Canadians and Americans were more relaxed soldiers, much more humane, but in his adolescent imagination during the occupation, my father thought they would never be able to defeat that ‘one voice/drum beat’ - Nazi Army. But he always added this: “after the war, I realized what kind of deceptive fascination the German army had on us occupied youngsters. But don’t you ever forget this my son: the people over the small water (meaning the North Sea, thus the British) and the people over the big pond (Americans, Canadians, New Zealanders, Australians …) have brought us peace and freedom for which they have paid dearly with their lives, as we have done. Freedom from tyranny never comes for free. Hold our liberators in high regards!”. This was a perhaps simplistic but very strong emotional view of my father on the war. One I will never forget nor cease to respect!
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Fitz
Guest
Pious Redeemer:
I thank you for your post. I know that this thread had lapsed, but your view is welcome. I just read a book written by a Luxembourg woman about the occupation of Luxembourg during WWII by the Germans, and then their liberation by Americans. It was also an insightful look back on what happened. My own Mother in Law is Luxembourg and she told us of the occupation during the war. She and her realatives are also grateful for the liberation. I went to a WWII museum on one of my visits to Luxembourg. When we arrived they called a local townsman to come in and give us a tour in English. He immediately thanked us for the liberation, and then spent two hours of his personal time showing us every room of the museum. It was very impressive.
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Pious_Redeemer
Guest
Thanks, Fitz! God bless you all!
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