Evangelical Prophetic Dance has become the RC Liturgical dance!

[Auriel]

I also heard a few weeks ago that there are people using You Tube to profane the Eucharist.

Could have been part of the Blasphemy Challenge. But it has been going on for almost 3 years now. Thousands have taken it up.

 

[elts1956]

That maybe so i hear it much is it a bible quote? I know G-d helps us to help him.
I dont see you tube as helping i see it as negative action to bring change by negative public humiliation to the whole body.

I am saying IMO you tube is not legitimate method to seek G-ds guidance

There is where i live when it comes to RCIA we do not educated people on all facets of Catholicism. We have too few parishioners running bible studies and prayer groups (maybe they are busy posting on utube. LOL) Their ignorance is often my fault.

i dont think you are supposed to be embarrassed by the action of others, i get embarrassed because i am not positively active enough. Easy to bag and post on utube hard to patiently build a strong relationship with you PP to create a path to gently help them.

more so when posted on utube.
only if our actions are faith in the negative, faith in the positive reveals Christain hope as limitless for the G-d of Yeshua (pbwh).

"I am saying IMO you tube is not legitimate method to seek G-ds guidance’. Well, I haven’t recently prayed at utube. Of course from where God’s guidance comes and when it comes no one can say for a certainty. We have to be open to knowledge.Those who are ardent Catholics just may wake from their dream state and see what is happening with the abuse our liturgy is being subjected to by those who know better by tuning in to utube.

 

[ralphinal]

Liturgical dance is allowed in cultures where dance is sacred (NOT the West) and during appropriate times.

But, and let me be clear about this, the people in this video WANTED to be HERETICAL. They WANTED to be BLASPHEMOUS. These Call to Action people seek the destruction of the Catholic Church as we know it. There desire is to offend God in order to please man.

 

[KathleenGee]

ralphinal…

Agree…this is a national sect, and the parish had its own notoriety…Voice of the People is also part…the VOP came out with the clergy abuse scandal…

But I also know that there were subversive elements in North American and Canadian seminaries to essentially water down our faith and make us no different than Protestants, and to move us through questionable theology and praxis …to action.

True action always comes from continual prayer and discernment and submission to lawful church authority. We have our own blind spots.

But I think the You tube piece was an intent to expose this to other Catholics in the world because the local ordinary didn’t seem able to do anything about this.

People use YouTube for their cause when the leadership is not using its faculties.

 

[KathleenGee]

(I like You Tube … watching dogs and cats, or visiting towns I worked in overseas. I worked in the tropics. So parallel to the video, they start showing the local bugs and snakes of the region, and I do tend to deviate there…)

 

[KathleenGee]

Auriel,

Who are you? What is your association? Are you into spi-ritual?

 

[ralphinal]

ralphinal…

Agree…this is a national sect, and the parish had its own notoriety…Voice of the People is also part…the VOP came out with the clergy abuse scandal…

But I also know that there were subversive elements in North American and Canadian seminaries to essentially water down our faith and make us no different than Protestants, and to move us through questionable theology and praxis …to action.

True action always comes from continual prayer and discernment and submission to lawful church authority. We have our own blind spots.

But I think the You tube piece was an intent to expose this to other Catholics in the world because the local ordinary didn’t seem able to do anything about this.

People use YouTube for their cause when the leadership is not using its faculties.

(I like You Tube … watching dogs and cats, or visiting towns I worked in overseas. I worked in the tropics. So parallel to the video, they start showing the local bugs and snakes of the region, and I do tend to deviate there…)

I agree 100%. What I am trying to point out is that there was NO doubt to these people that they were in violation. They TRIED to be in violation of the rules. It is silly to argue that fact: they concede it readily.

 

[Auriel]

Auriel,

Who are you? What is your association? Are you into spi-ritual?

I do not even know what **spi-ritual **is! I’ll have to google it. LOL

Auriel is a form of my name, I am not part of any denomination though I have experienced many, and oh, I like cat videos too.

 

[KathleenGee]

Auriel,

Thanks for letting me know…yes, I see those cat videos and people like forwarding more…
We just got a sheltie for cheap…kennel one…so I had to check out the Shelties…he barks alot in house…so cute…like a fox…and very clever like one, an escape artist.

Ok, you don’t want to go near Spi-ritual.

Kathleen

 

[KathleenGee]

This evening, I came in late on a discussion about our Jewish roots…how the big event for the Jews was not studying the Word in isolation but in liturgy…

And that in our Western culture, as we grow in our apostolic faith, liturgy is about the last source we cover…according to Dr Scott Hahn.

For those who don’t know Dr Hahn, he is a former Protestant minister and formerly very anti-Catholic as well. So he has a most remarkable story.

I remember hearing from a deacon, that the first degree of learning theology is not intellectually, but through prayer.

So for us to learn our Bible…it takes 3 years of on going Mass attendance to cover all 3 cycles of the Bible…we are learning it through liturgy…I would like to get a DVD of that tape…how the use of stone, candles, sacrifice are apparent in our altar today …that the big event for the Jewish people was attending the liturgy and being inspired, more than any aspect of their lives.

I believe he said it was in the Old Testament of Saul that a Priest King was what we were to expect, not a politcal king…

At my parish, people are in the church may be 15 minutes before Mass time.

 

[Steven_John]

Peace and blessings everyone, I have not posted on this thread for a while, been deep in prayer / reflection on this.

I am deeply moved by Br Elts passion.

Respectfully, I still dont see the tube as the BEST answer.

If the Catholic Church does not have sufficient redress for these type of matters would we not do better to peruse creation of a process to adress such matters now and in the future?

I would rather see us come together in an accord inside of the church so that in future we can straighten ourselves.

As stated i have not had issues that could not be sorted once i had communicated to our Bishop. From this thread i can see it is not the same for us all and it hurts.

First does the Catholic Church have an approved system for laity to resolve issues and in relation to these issues discussed here were they followed with no result.

Then assuming there is no system or it has failed can anyone see a process that would better serve Our Fathers will.

If we in unity can see what needs to be we could petition the Catholic Church to implement the approach.

Some one offered here “G-d helps those who help themselves” while i dont know this to be scriptural truth, taking this positive action we could “help Our Mother to help our family”.

What do you think?

 

[ralphinal]

Peace and blessings everyone, I have not posted on this thread for a while, been deep in prayer / reflection on this.

I am deeply moved by Br Elts passion.

Respectfully, I still dont see the tube as the BEST answer.

If the Catholic Church does not have sufficient redress for these type of matters would we not do better to peruse creation of a process to adress such matters now and in the future?

I would rather see us come together in an accord inside of the church so that in future we can straighten ourselves.

As stated i have not had issues that could not be sorted once i had communicated to our Bishop. From this thread i can see it is not the same for us all and it hurts.

First does the Catholic Church have an approved system for laity to resolve issues and in relation to these issues discussed here were they followed with no result.

Then assuming there is no system or it has failed can anyone see a process that would better serve Our Fathers will.

If we in unity can see what needs to be we could petition the Catholic Church to implement the approach.

Some one offered here “G-d helps those who help themselves” while i dont know this to be scriptural truth, taking this positive action we could “help Our Mother to help our family”.

What do you think?

There are ways that lay people can complain. First, they can go to their bishop. If that does no good, they can go to Rome.

 

[Steven_John]

There are ways that lay people can complain. First, they can go to their bishop. If that does no good, they can go to Rome.

Bless you Br Ralph, i guess the bishop would let one know how to contact Rome.

I would offer from this no one would have a need for youtube to air the issues as they see them.

If Rome does not set things straight one would have to question themselves first to ensure they are correct and if they are dust off their sandles and move on away from the Catholic Church.

 

[elts1956]

Peace and blessings everyone, I have not posted on this thread for a while, been deep in prayer / reflection on this.

I am deeply moved by Br Elts passion.

Respectfully, I still dont see the tube as the BEST answer.

If the Catholic Church does not have sufficient redress for these type of matters would we not do better to peruse creation of a process to adress such matters now and in the future?

I would rather see us come together in an accord inside of the church so that in future we can straighten ourselves.

As stated i have not had issues that could not be sorted once i had communicated to our Bishop. From this thread i can see it is not the same for us all and it hurts.

First does the Catholic Church have an approved system for laity to resolve issues and in relation to these issues discussed here were they followed with no result.

Then assuming there is no system or it has failed can anyone see a process that would better serve Our Fathers will.

If we in unity can see what needs to be we could petition the Catholic Church to implement the approach.

Some one offered here “G-d helps those who help themselves” while i dont know this to be scriptural truth, taking this positive action we could “help Our Mother to help our family”.

What do you think?

Bless you Br Ralph, i guess the bishop would let one know how to contact Rome.

I would offer from this no one would have a need for youtube to air the issues as they see them.

If Rome does not set things straight one would have to question themselves first to ensure they are correct and if they are dust off their sandles and move on away from the Catholic Church.

There is no where else on this Earth that I can find the truths of faith that I find in the Catholic Church. Never would I move away from her truths as have been taught for over 2000 years. One must separate the human from the divine when talking of our Bishops, Cardinals etc. Though they are ordained as God’s teachers and messengers, they still have only human will. They are tempted just as we are. I am trying to have patience that all crooked roads will be made straight in God’s time. As you can see, I have a difficult time accomplishing that. But I will not stand silently by and see Mother Church desecrated through ignorance and pride. Why would I leave her instead of defending her?

By the way, it is Sr not Br.

 

[Steven_John]

There is no where else on this Earth that I can find the truths of faith that I find in the Catholic Church. Never would I move away from her truths as have been taught for over 2000 years. One must separate the human from the divine when talking of our Bishops, Cardinals etc. Though they are ordained as God’s teachers and messengers, they still have only human will. They are tempted just as we are. I am trying to have patience that all crooked roads will be made straight in God’s time. As you can see, I have a difficult time accomplishing that. But I will not stand silently by and see Mother Church desecrated through ignorance and pride. Why would I leave her instead of defending her?

By the way, it is Sr not Br.

Very sorry about the Br calling Sr, your name was not familiar to me.

Please also accept my apology about trying to sway you away from the you tube thing.

I see now if this is how G-d guides you it is what you must support.

And yes if Rome (the head of the church) and you disagree and G-d guides you to defend Her thats a good thing.

Bless you

 

[ralphinal]

If I may play devil’s advocate for a minute, this may be a moot point.

If there is no current activity, the Bishop may say that there is no real response needed. The priest involved may even be from outside the diocese.

THe best thing to do, if one was to complain, is to frame it in a “We do not want this to happen again” not a “These people need to be punished for what they did.”

 

[Reuben_J]

If Rome does not set things straight one would have to question themselves first to ensure they are correct and if they are dust off their sandles and move on away from the Catholic Church.

My gut feeling is you may have already formed certain thought about the Catholic Church and how it works.

While in principle the laity can go all the way to Rome to complain, in this case it is not likely nor is appropriate that it will be handled that way. Bring it up to the priest’s local Bishop and let the Bishop deals with him.

The issue here is liturgical abuse - in this case a high dose of inculturation is being injected into the mass. Many a times the actual proceeding of the liturgy may not be initiated by the celebrating priest at all but usually on the suggestion of the organizers of the event, which look like what happened here. Some priests would just follow suit while the more traditional ones would surely object. The priest of course has the last word on how the proceeding of the mass will be. So he has to accept responsibility ultimately on the conduct of the mass.

So we see liturgical abuses do happen. When it does, it’s not like a teacher reporting misconduct to the principal and has the culprit punished. In the Church nearly everyone should accept responsibility on what they do. I would say, more appropriately abuse can be minimized when Catholics understand more about the mass, thus the need for disseminating instruction and knowledge about it by the diocese and the church at large. Catholics, be they lays or clergies should be brave enough to speak lovingly and point out the abuse when they see it happens.

A while back there was a statement from the Vatican disallowing a certian Church’s movement which has its own private mass on a Sunday to continue with this practice. I don’t know how far this is being complied.

Unlike your suggestion, I would not agree that Catholics should leave the Church for whatever reason. They should work within the Church.

 

[KathleenGee]

Stephen John,

We are instructed to go to our pastor for any concerns, and then let the matter stay with the pastor and returned to the richness of your faith.

However, there are clerics who are dissenters. Stay away from them. Priests have said to us, if you are in a parish with such abuses, if you cannot find peace there, then go to another parish.

Finally, we are exhorted by the saints all the time to pray and fast for our pastors and priests. They give us the Body and Blood of Christ, and they are to image with their daily lives the image and purpose and mission of Christ. So many of us have been caught up in materialism and the fast pace of modern world.

So, if you can stay in peace in your parish, inspite of happenings, you have communicated your concerns to the pastor, then pray and do penance for him in hope your prayers will be answered in God’s time.

Parishes are reflective of relationships…and it takes time to keep the peace among the whole, but to make corrections.

God bless!

 

[Steven_John]

My gut feeling is you may have already formed certain thought about the Catholic Church and how it works.

No need to use your gut, better to read all my posts in the thread.

I think our experiences would have us all formed “certain though” on how She works.

 

[Steven_John]

Peace and blessings,
I am at peace in our parish and dioceses, I was not at peace about the you tube part of Catholic life supported here.

I have conceded and even apologised that for some Youtube is a part of Catholic life.

I see Br Ralphs post as the better way, it is what i saw from prayer but had assumed as people were posting on Youtube it did not exist for Catholics.

So as for the posts on youtube I now assume caring loving patient Catholics that videoed and posted must have been given the “your wrong and the priest and bishop are right” by Rome.

I am at peace where i am as i told you all in earlier post My Father sorts out the issues i cant within the Church.

I make no apology for hating the now “youtube Catholic way”. IMO it is the action of the weak.

If there brethren in the pews dont agree with them, the PP does not, the bishop does not and Rome does not, i suggested they move on.

I did not consider the you tube posters to be at peace.

You should all do as your god tells you, if he tells you after speaking to Rome drag her through public humiliation, you had all better do it.

I thank and praise My Father (yours too if you want) does not get me to publically humiliate her.

May G-d bless and guide as all as we do His will.