Evangelicals Will Be Extinct Within Ten Years

[always_gr8ful]

This is our faith.

Rom2:6-8 and eight DO GOOD WORKS (DID YOU SEE THIS ALWAYS)

Romans 2:6-8
6 "Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,"

The trouble with a house of cards is that they evidentially get stacked so high, they all come falling down. Let me explain…

I am sorry Always you refuse to obey the word and call it Mans word. IT was Gods word not mans. You are very comfused here.

Rinnie, when you wrote this to me, did you consider the verses before Romans 2:6-8?

1 "Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?"
~Romans 2:1-3

By judging me, you have condemned yourself! But do you not believe that? Were you not taught by the Church that this plain statement of condemnation is rendered according to the same “disobedience to truth” of verse 8?

If you read on through Paul’s rant, he ends this message with Jesus, our Savior:

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

When Paul says “Therefore”, we have to look at what came first to understand the “therefore”. Paul just told us, basically, that we are pitiful sinners, Jews and Gentiles alike, and after the “therefore”, no deeds will cause us to be justified in the eyes of God, but thanks be to Jesus! Through Him (and Him alone) we are made righteous and redeemed, our sins washed clean!!

You can’t have it both ways. If doing good deeds earns eternal life, or seeking for glory and honour and immortality, then judging others earns condemnation.

 

[always_gr8ful]

The good news Paul writes in the post above was Romans 3:20-26. I forgot to referance the scripture.

 

[always_gr8ful]

Always the only thing I can figure is 2 things. either you really don’t understand the bible. Or you are Jewish and reject Jesus. That can be the only 2 things.

I really gotta go. But read Paul again, Look how the Jew’s condemned Jesus for curing people on SUnday, for eating meat. for eating with sinners. Read about being circumcised. This was all the Mosiac law. Look how Jesus forgave sin. That went against their Law. Do you no believe like them that he was God and could do this?

In the new Law we don’t have to be circumcised. we just have to be Baptised. Look in Gal 3:17 the law came into effect 430 years after Abraham. During Moses. Were there no good works before Moses? Works of the law does not equal good works as you seem to believe. I really gotta go. I am sure someone can explain it to you. I am a Christian Always I go by the words of Jesus Christ. I really see now where you are getting confused. At least I think I do, Again on my way out. I am sure one of these guys are seeing what I see now, and can help you.

I see the problem here. You think when Paul is talking about works of the law, he is talking about circumcision? There were (still are for some) 613 laws, and these laws mean everything to the Jews because it is by keeping the law that they (believe) they are saved.

See if any of these sound familiar. I’ll try my best to pick the ones that resemble your Catholic “most do” list you posted.

To know that God exists (Ex. 20:2; Deut. 5:6)
To fear Him reverently (Deut. 6:13; 10:20)
To imitate His good and upright ways (Deut. 28:9)
To cleave to those who know Him (Deut. 10:20) (the Talmud states that cleaving to scholars is equivalent to cleaving to Him)
To set the showbread and the frankincense before the L-rd every Shabbat (Ex. 25:30)
To offer up incense twice daily (Ex. 30:7)
To eat the flesh of the Paschal lamb on it, with unleavened bread and bitter herbs (Num. 9:11)
That purification from all kinds of defilement shall be effected by immersion in the waters of a mikvah (Lev. 15:16)
Not to cherish hatred in one’s heart (Lev. 19:17)

Your Catholic man-made laws are no different than these. This is what Paul means when he says “works of the law”.

Here’s the link to see them all:
jewfaq.org/613.htm

 

[always_gr8ful]

I did a little better job of matching them up.

Catholic Works of the Law / Jewish works of the Law

We must be Baptised (A DEED) John 3
That purification from all kinds of defilement shall be effected by immersion in the waters of a mikvah (Lev. 15:16)

second we must have faith Rom 3:28
To know that God exists (Ex. 20:2; Deut. 5:6)

Third we MUST do the will of the Father Matt 7:21
To imitate His good and upright ways (Deut. 28:9)

four we must forgive to be forgiven matt 6:14-15
Not to cherish hatred in one’s heart (Lev. 19:17)

Four we must keep the commamdment Matt 19:16-17
Out of the 613 Jewish Laws, I couldn’t find this one

Five must labor for the food John 6:27
Not to give the flesh of the Paschal lamb to an Israelite who had become an apostate (Ex. 12:43)

SIx we must eat the flesh John 6:51-58
To eat the flesh of the Paschal lamb on it, with unleavened bread and bitter herbs (Num. 9:11)

Seven we must seek for gloru and for honor and for immortatality Rom2:6-8
Zip

and eight DO GOOD WORKS
To give charity according to one’s means (Deut. 15:11)

(DID YOU SEE THIS ALWAYS) James 21:14-26 and Matt 25:31-36 and so on…ITs a process it starts with BAPTISM. its ends with DEATH.

There’s MORE?! What would it take to convince you that you are living under the law, not under Grace???

 

[always_gr8ful]

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
~James 2:10

 

[josie_L]

Acts 13:39
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:24
Being justified** freely by his grace** through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Titus 3:7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Hebrews 4:10
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

And then there are the 7 Churches in Revelations, five of which Jesus says "I know your works, but “Nevertheless I hold this against you…” So obviously the Church is not justified by works.

Did it ever occur to you that there are two kinds of works being defined, one of which, is the works of the laws to which some of your quotes refer to and the other being the works or good deeds that pertain to our faith working in love. Let me give you an example of this:

Ephesians 2 8-10

“It is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and sealed us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not yourselves, it is the gift of God - **not by works **, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship created in Christ Jesus to do good works which God prepared in advance for us to do.”

The next line after this is:

"Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth, and called “uncircum cised” by those who call themselves the “circumcision” . . . remember that at that time you were separate from Christ excluded from citizenship in Israel . . . etc.

The works to which Paul states “not by works” means the works of the Mosaic law, he is exhorting his readers that the Judaizers amongst them are wrong in stating that the Gentiles need to be circumcized in order to be part of the new covenant. The latter works refers only to the good deeds or works which is necessary to living out our faith,

In fact, faith with works (acts of love) is so important to Paul, James, and the others that to deny this is to deny the truth:

“For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumsion has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing (i.e., working) itself through love.” Galatians 5:6

Paul goes on further to say:

". . . rather serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: “love your neighbor as yourself.”

Is this not what James was advocating in scripture when he said we should look after the orphans and the widows (our faith working in love):

“You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless. . . You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith (faith is defined here has a belief in Christ as Saviour only) alone.”

Also, Romans 2: 6-7

“God will give to each person according to what he has done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor, immortality, he will give eternal life.”

continued:

“For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law (summed up as “loving your neighbor as yourself” as Paul stated in Galatians) who will be declared righteous.”

Now, I would like for you to read 1 Corinthians 3: 1-3 with me:

" If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have no love, I am only a resounding gong or clanging cymbal. I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and **if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. ** If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love (think of the Stoics), I gain nothing."

continued:

"And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Works of love are necessary to our faith (they justify us in the eyes of God), that is why in the Gospel of Matthew we have the story of “The Sheeps and Goats” and “The Tree and its Fruit” (Jesus’s own words spoken to the Apostles) to let us know that it takes more than a belief in Jesus as saviour to be saved.

"Not every one who says to me, "Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom (hmm, why’s that?) but only he who does the will of my Father (so our faith needs to be active, you say) who is in Heaven. Many will say say to me on that day, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles? Then, I will tell them plainly. I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”

We are justified by faith (an unmerited gift of God’s grace) and works, i.e., works of love (which is the power of grace which moves us to cooperate with it).

 

[josie_L]

Did it ever occur to you that there are two kinds of works being defined, one of which, is the works of the laws to which some of your quotes refer to and the other being the works or good deeds that pertain to our faith working in love. Let me give you an example of this:

Ephesians 2 8-10

“It is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and sealed us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not yourselves, it is the gift of God - **not by works **, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship created in Christ Jesus to do good works which God prepared in advance for us to do.”

The next line after this is:

"Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth, and called “uncircum cised” by those who call themselves the “circumcision” . . . remember that at that time you were separate from Christ excluded from citizenship in Israel . . . etc.

The works to which Paul states “not by works” means the works of the Mosaic law, he is exhorting his readers that the Judaizers amongst them are wrong in stating that the Gentiles need to be circumcized in order to be part of the new covenant. The latter works refers only to the good deeds or works which is necessary to living out our faith,

In fact, faith with works (acts of love) is so important to Paul, James, and the others that to deny this is to deny the truth:

“For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumsion has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing (i.e., working) itself through love.” Galatians 5:6

Paul goes on further to say:

". . . rather serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: “love your neighbor as yourself.”

Is this not what James was advocating in scripture when he said we should look after the orphans and the widows (our faith working in love):

“You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless. . . You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith (faith is defined here has a belief in Christ as Saviour only) alone.”

Also, Romans 2: 6-7

“God will give to each person according to what he has done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor, immortality, he will give eternal life.”

continued:

“For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law (summed up as “loving your neighbor as yourself” as Paul stated in Galatians) who will be declared righteous.”

Now, I would like for you to read 1 Corinthians 3: 1-3 with me:

" If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have no love, I am only a resounding gong or clanging cymbal. I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and **if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. ** If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love (think of the Stoics), I gain nothing."

continued:

"And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Works of love are necessary to our faith (they justify us in the eyes of God), that is why in the Gospel of Matthew we have the story of “The Sheeps and Goats” and “The Tree and its Fruit” (Jesus’s own words spoken to the Apostles) to let us know that it takes more than a belief in Jesus as saviour to be saved.

"Not every one who says to me, "Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom (hmm, why’s that?) but only he who does the will of my Father (so our faith needs to be active, you say) who is in Heaven. Many will say say to me on that day, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles? Then, I will tell them plainly. I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”

We are justified by faith (an unmerited gift of God’s grace) and works, i.e., works of love (which is the power of grace which moves us to cooperate with it).

Please note, that “works of laws” is works of the Mosaic laws. Forgot to put that in.

 

[always_gr8ful]

Did it ever occur to you that there are two kinds of works being defined, one of which, is the works of the laws to which some of your quotes refer to and the other being the works or good deeds that pertain to our faith working in love.

Hi Josie! Thanks for joining us.

Yes, I was so aware of two kinds of works that I posted both in scripture to show that NEITHER will earn salvation in any way, shape or form.

We have been talking about all the ways that Catholics try to complete the already finished work of the Cross, His death and resurrection. Works of the law, works of good deeds, the sacraments, all these things add up to the same thing - They tell Jesus that His death was not enough. Can you imagine?!

Romans 2:6-8 - Did you miss my post to Rinnie, post number #579?
Picking and choosing what scripture you want to make law (a law unto salvation) is the house of cards I was referring to. Picking verses 6-8 to believe as doctrine, ignoring verses 1-5 where you are condemned for judging others. You can’t have it both ways! You either practice all the law, or none. Jesus or the law. Life or death.

This is a serious matter, and I am starting to wonder if either no one is reading the plain Truth of the Word, or if somehow it’s not plain to all. So please bear with me and do this one thing I ask. Read the scripture posted in the next couple posts. I don’t usually quote out of the “Message Bible”, but this is so important that I don’t want the Middle English to keep anyone from grasping Paul’s message to us.
Thank you.
I prayerfully ask God to open all hearts and minds to His Word.

 

[always_gr8ful]

Romans 2

1-2 Those people are on a dark spiral downward. But if you think that leaves you on the high ground where you can point your finger at others, think again. Every time you criticize someone, you condemn yourself. It takes one to know one. Judgmental criticism of others is a well-known way of escaping detection in your own crimes and misdemeanors. But God isn’t so easily diverted. He sees right through all such smoke screens and holds you to what you’ve done.
3-4You didn’t think, did you, that just by pointing your finger at others you would distract God from seeing all your misdoings and from coming down on you hard? Or did you think that because he’s such a nice God, he’d let you off the hook? Better think this one through from the beginning. God is kind, but he’s not soft. In kindness he takes us firmly by the hand and leads us into a radical life-change.

5-8You’re not getting by with anything. Every refusal and avoidance of God adds fuel to the fire. The day is coming when it’s going to blaze hot and high, God’s fiery and righteous judgment. Make no mistake: In the end you get what’s coming to you—Real Life for those who work on God’s side, but to those who insist on getting their own way and take the path of least resistance, Fire!

9-11If you go against the grain, you get splinters, regardless of which neighborhood you’re from, what your parents taught you, what schools you attended. But if you embrace the way God does things, there are wonderful payoffs, again without regard to where you are from or how you were brought up. Being a Jew won’t give you an automatic stamp of approval. God pays no attention to what others say (or what you think) about you. He makes up his own mind.

12-13If you sin without knowing what you’re doing, God takes that into account. But if you sin knowing full well what you’re doing, that’s a different story entirely. Merely hearing God’s law is a waste of your time if you don’t do what he commands. Doing, not hearing, is what makes the difference with God.

14-16When outsiders who have never heard of God’s law follow it more or less by instinct, they confirm its truth by their obedience. They show that God’s law is not something alien, imposed on us from without, but woven into the very fabric of our creation. There is something deep within them that echoes God’s yes and no, right and wrong. Their response to God’s yes and no will become public knowledge on the day God makes his final decision about every man and woman. The Message from God that I proclaim through Jesus Christ takes into account all these differences.

 

[always_gr8ful]

17-24If you’re brought up Jewish, don’t assume that you can lean back in the arms of your religion and take it easy, feeling smug because you’re an insider to God’s revelation, a connoisseur of the best things of God, informed on the latest doctrines! I have a special word of caution for you who are sure that you have it all together yourselves and, because you know God’s revealed Word inside and out, feel qualified to guide others through their blind alleys and dark nights and confused emotions to God. While you are guiding others, who is going to guide you? I’m quite serious. While preaching “Don’t steal!” are you going to rob people blind? Who would suspect you? The same with adultery. The same with idolatry. You can get by with almost anything if you front it with eloquent talk about God and his law. The line from Scripture, “It’s because of you Jews that the outsiders are down on God,” shows it’s an old problem that isn’t going to go away.

25-29Circumcision, the surgical ritual that marks you as a Jew, is great if you live in accord with God’s law. But if you don’t, it’s worse than not being circumcised. The reverse is also true: The uncircumcised who keep God’s ways are as good as the circumcised—in fact, better. Better to keep God’s law uncircumcised than break it circumcised. Don’t you see: It’s not the cut of a knife that makes a Jew. You become a Jew by who you are. It’s the mark of God on your heart, not of a knife on your skin, that makes a Jew. And recognition comes from God, not legalistic critics.

Continuing:
Romans 3

1-2So what difference does it make who’s a Jew and who isn’t, who has been trained in God’s ways and who hasn’t? As it turns out, it makes a lot of difference—but not the difference so many have assumed. 2-6First, there’s the matter of being put in charge of writing down and caring for God’s revelation, these Holy Scriptures. So, what if, in the course of doing that, some of those Jews abandoned their post? God didn’t abandon them. Do you think their faithlessness cancels out his faithfulness? Not on your life! Depend on it: God keeps his word even when the whole world is lying through its teeth. Scripture says the same:

Your words stand fast and true;
Rejection doesn’t faze you.
But if our wrongdoing only underlines and confirms God’s rightdoing, shouldn’t we be commended for helping out? Since our bad words don’t even make a dent in his good words, isn’t it wrong of God to back us to the wall and hold us to our word? These questions come up. The answer to such questions is no, a most emphatic No! How else would things ever get straightened out if God didn’t do the straightening?

7-8It’s simply perverse to say, “If my lies serve to show off God’s truth all the more gloriously, why blame me? I’m doing God a favor.” Some people are actually trying to put such words in our mouths, claiming that we go around saying, “The more evil we do, the more good God does, so let’s just do it!” That’s pure slander, as I’m sure you’ll agree.

 

[always_gr8ful]

9-20So where does that put us? Do we Jews get a better break than the others? Not really. Basically, all of us, whether insiders or outsiders, start out in identical conditions, which is to say that we all start out as sinners. Scripture leaves no doubt about it:

There’s nobody living right, not even one,
nobody who knows the score, nobody alert for God.
They’ve all taken the wrong turn;
they’ve all wandered down blind alleys.
No one’s living right;
I can’t find a single one.
Their throats are gaping graves,
their tongues slick as mudslides.
Every word they speak is tinged with poison.
They open their mouths and pollute the air.
They race for the honor of sinner-of-the-year,
litter the land with heartbreak and ruin,
Don’t know the first thing about living with others.
They never give God the time of day.
This makes it clear, doesn’t it, that whatever is written in these Scriptures is not what God says about others but to us to whom these Scriptures were addressed in the first place! And it’s clear enough, isn’t it, that we’re sinners, every one of us, in the same sinking boat with everybody else? Our involvement with God’s revelation doesn’t put us right with God. What it does is force us to face our complicity in everyone else’s sin.

21-24But in our time something new has been added. What Moses and the prophets witnessed to all those years has happened. The God-setting-things-right that we read about has become Jesus-setting-things-right for us. And not only for us, but for everyone who believes in him. For there is no difference between us and them in this. Since we’ve compiled this long and sorry record as sinners (both us and them) and proved that we are utterly incapable of living the glorious lives God wills for us, God did it for us. Out of sheer generosity he put us in right standing with himself. A pure gift. He got us out of the mess we’re in and restored us to where he always wanted us to be. And he did it by means of Jesus Christ.

25-26God sacrificed Jesus on the altar of the world to clear that world of sin. Having faith in him sets us in the clear. God decided on this course of action in full view of the public—to set the world in the clear with himself through the sacrifice of Jesus, finally taking care of the sins he had so patiently endured. This is not only clear, but it’s now—this is current history! God sets things right. He also makes it possible for us to live in his rightness.

27-28So where does that leave our proud Jewish insider claims and counter-claims? Canceled? Yes, canceled. What we’ve learned is this: God does not respond to what we do; we respond to what God does. We’ve finally figured it out. Our lives get in step with God and all others by letting him set the pace, not by proudly or anxiously trying to run the parade.

29-30And where does that leave our proud Jewish claim of having a corner on God? Also canceled. God is the God of outsider non-Jews as well as insider Jews. How could it be otherwise since there is only one God? God sets right all who welcome his action and enter into it, both those who follow our religious system and those who have never heard of our religion.

31But by shifting our focus from what we do to what God does, don’t we cancel out all our careful keeping of the rules and ways God commanded? Not at all. What happens, in fact, is that by putting that entire way of life in its proper place, we confirm it.

 

[always_gr8ful]

Did it ever occur to you that there are two kinds of works being defined, one of which, is the works of the laws to which some of your quotes refer to and the other being the works or good deeds that pertain to our faith working in love. Let me give you an example of this:

Ephesians 2 8-10
Galatians 5:6
Also, Romans 2: 6-7
1 Corinthians 3: 1-3 with me:
Matthew we have the story of “The Sheeps and Goats” and “The Tree and its Fruit”

Josie, if you believe that any of these scriptures say that we must do something besides believe on Jesus for our salvation or justification, please post it. So far we have a big fat zero.

With all the verses posted on this thread examined in context, it has been clear that our salvation is through belief in Jesus Christ, plus nothing. And it will continue to be proven as so because God’s Word is Truth and Life.

 

[a_burger]

This is an answer for always gr8ful misunderstandng of a dangerous ‘once saved always saved’ misconception.

John 15:5-6
5 I (Jesus) am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

I think it is a given that anyone who is in Christ is considered a born again Christian. Jesus, himself, says if (and only if) a man remains in me does he escape the fire. Jesus clearly talks of those who don’t remain in Christ (remain saved) and of their consequences.
I don’t know how you could possibly miss it. If you persist in this non-scriptual belief please do the heathens a favor. Don’t tell someone who made an alter call 30 years and never did anything good and has been nothing but a heathen since that it is OK. Do you really want to see them thrown away like a withered branch and thrown into the fire because you spread a false doctrine.

We as Catholics will never believe that someone can act like a heathen and end up in heaven. This is because the Catholic church has never changed and ‘once saved only saved’ was not part of the early apostolic church. Therefore, it will never be a part of the Catholic church. Everyhting the Catholic church does and believes comes from Sacred Scripture.

Again, I ask you what congregation do you belong to? Remember, we as Christians are open about our belief. There are many other verses I could give you, but, if this one don’t convince you a thousand verses wouldn’t change your mind.

 

[josie_L]

Hi Josie! Thanks for joining us.

Yes, I was so aware of two kinds of works that I posted both in scripture to show that NEITHER will earn salvation in any way, shape or form.

We have been talking about all the ways that Catholics try to complete the already finished work of the Cross, His death and resurrection. Works of the law, works of good deeds, the sacraments, all these things add up to the same thing - They tell Jesus that His death was not enough. Can you imagine?!

Romans 2:6-8 - Did you miss my post to Rinnie, post number #579?
Picking and choosing what scripture you want to make law (a law unto salvation) is the house of cards I was referring to. Picking verses 6-8 to believe as doctrine, ignoring verses 1-5 where you are condemned for judging others. You can’t have it both ways! You either practice all the law, or none. Jesus or the law. Life or death.

This is a serious matter, and I am starting to wonder if either no one is reading the plain Truth of the Word, or if somehow it’s not plain to all. So please bear with me and do this one thing I ask. Read the scripture posted in the next couple posts. I don’t usually quote out of the “Message Bible”, but this is so important that I don’t want the Middle English to keep anyone from grasping Paul’s message to us.
Thank you.
I prayerfully ask God to open all hearts and minds to His Word.

To fulfil the whole of (Mosaic) law, one has only to love (selflessly like Jesus), have you not understood this.

“Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, **for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the laws. ** The commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not covet, and whatever other commandment there may be, **are summed up in this one rule: Love your neighbor. Love does not harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” ** Romans 13: 8-10

"To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law) . . . " 1 Corinthians 9: 21

“For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing (not fulfilling) the law. Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith, and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.”

 

[josie_L]

Josie, if you believe that any of these scriptures say that we must do something besides believe on Jesus for our salvation or justification, please post it. So far we have a big fat zero.

With all the verses posted on this thread examined in context, it has been clear that our salvation is through belief in Jesus Christ, plus nothing. And it will continue to be proven as so because God’s Word is Truth and Life.

You are ridiculously naive to believe this. When Jesus died on the cross we too were able to share in the divine nature, i.e., we received the Holy Spirit, as such we are to live according to the Spirit. To live by the Spirit we must cooperate with it, until we have reached complete obedience to God’'s will (unto death), This process of complete obedience requires works of love. The Jews had one extreme (in that they had to observe the Mosaic law: all 613 commandments) and now you have taken another extreme with your insistence that we do nothing.

 

[always_gr8ful]

Again, I ask you what congregation do you belong to? Remember, we as Christians are open about our belief.

a burger, I have stated three times on this thread that I am of no “religion”. I don’t “do” religion, but just because I don’t, doesn’t mean that I think others shouldn’t. That would be silly. I am a Bible believing Christian. I fellowship with a group of Christians, one being a wonderful Catholic man who has helped me understand some of which I have read on this thread. I am quite aware of your need to pigeon-hole me so that you can tie a pretty bow around a stereotype, but perhaps my lack of religion is part of God’s larger plan when I speak His Truth.

There are many other verses I could give you, but, if this one don’t convince you a thousand verses wouldn’t change your mind.

Just as there are many more verses that I can post that contradict this one strongly that don’t use metaphor. Shall we have the battle of the verses?

Searching the scripture these last few days has convinced me of once saved, always saved. OSAS was something I never even thought about until I found this board/thread, as I have always had the blessed assurance. Oh, there’s been times I’ve doubted over the years, but I can always trace my doubt to my shortcomings and guilt - thinking that I was just too bad for Jesus to come through for me at times. Other times, I have soured in my self righteousness, thinking that God must sure be pleased with me! LOL.

In my now middle life, I have come to a much deeper understanding of the sacrifice Jesus made for me and my standing in the scheme of things. I know that every good thing in me, He put there. I know that I can’t take credit for even the good things I do. Pride went out the window as I came to realize that had He not chosen me, I would be like those who hate me, so how could I not love them? I discovered that it’s not my sins that concern Him, but my relationships with every single person I come into contact with, family, friends, strangers, you. And my relationship with Him. If I know anything at all of His Truth, He showed it to me so I can’t even brag of my studies.

It’s very humbling. I suppose that when a person gets to this realization and then see all that others do trying to put their dirty hands on His perfect Gift, it’s a bit much to take. But what I may perceive as a slap in the face of Jesus, to Him may only be what is expected by Him, because He was once a man too (thought perfect).
I don’t know. All I know is that when I stand before Jesus, He’s not going to ask me about a burger. He’s going to ask me about me.

So will I teach OSAS? No. It was a non-issue for me before I came here, and since I have blessed assurance, is a non-issue now. So please don’t worry that I will lead others astray. I teach Jesus Christ as Savior through belief alone - the Word of God. And if someone questions their salvation, then I would suggest that they seek God for their blessed assurance, and God alone. I know He is faithful and will give them the assurance they need.

 

[always_gr8ful]

*“But what I may perceive as a slap in the face of Jesus, to Him may only be what is expected by Him, because He was once a man too (thought perfect).” *

thought perfect= though perfect

 

[always_gr8ful]

To fulfil the whole of (Mosaic) law, one has only to love (selflessly like Jesus), have you not understood this.

Josie, I can’t help you if you refuse to see that your man-made doctrines of works and ritual are laws unto themselves.

“Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, **for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the (sacraments). ** The commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not covet, and whatever other (sacrament you might add), **are summed up in this one rule: Love your neighbor. Love does not harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the (sacraments).” ** Romans 13: 8-10

 

[always_gr8ful]

You are ridiculously naive to believe this.

naive
na·ive naa v ]
adjective

Definition:

1. extremely simple and trusting

Yep, that me. I believe and trust in the message of God’s Word. I’m a fool for Jesus!

At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.
~Luke 10:21

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

"Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength.
~1 Corinthians 1:18-25

 

[always_gr8ful]

and now you have taken another extreme with your insistence that we do nothing.

This is an old debate trick. If you can’t debate the issue, change it!

The issue is not if we are to do anything. By the Holy Spirit, we are new creations and new creations act out their faith.

The issue is adding on to what was already finished by His death and resurrection.