Evangelicals Will Be Extinct Within Ten Years

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I wasn’t really arguing the point (at least I didn’t think so ). Moreover, I never put myself out there as an expert on the Christian world view. I made some obvious observations i.e. evangelicals and Catholics generally oppose abortion, stem cell research, gay marriage, etc.

Are there no atheists who oppose these things? Not one any where in the world?

God bless

 

[humble_in_doubt]

Are there no atheists who oppose these things? Not one any where in the world?

God bless

very few … why after all would we? The only thing I would opine on those topics is that I’m always willing to consider rational evidence concerning any issue. If there’s a rational reason for any particular policy & it outweighs the cons, then it’s probably a good idea! I just don’t base my views on mythology or anything that’s not real.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

very few … why after all would we? The only thing I would opine on those topics is that I’m always willing to consider rational evidence concerning any issue. If there’s a rational reason for any particular policy & it outweighs the cons, then it’s probably a good idea! I just don’t base my views on mythology or anything that’s not real.

Very few? I think there are more than that, but we can go with a very few.

If we “illogical” and “irrational” Christians have our “fairy tales” and our “myths” to fall back on as to why we are so “uncool” when it comes to abortion and gay marriage, what do these few atheists have to fall back on?

Perhaps this is less of a religious issue as you originally thought and more of a right or wrong issue?

Do you believe there is wrong humble? Do you believe there is evil in the world? Is it real?

God bless

 

[josie_L]

This is an old debate trick. If you can’t debate the issue, change it!

The issue is not if we are to do anything. By the Holy Spirit, we are new creations and new creations act out their faith.

The issue is adding on to what was already finished by His death and resurrection.

Jesus redeemed us, and gave us the gift of salvation, but like any gift we can lose it, destroy it, neglect it, and take it for granted. It’s not rocket science just a basic understanding of human nature.

P.S. I’m curious how do you state on the one hand that you only have to believe in Christ to be saved and yet state as in the quote above that we act out our faith (is this not works of love)?

 

[josie_L]

Josie, I can’t help you if you refuse to see that your man-made doctrines of works and ritual are laws unto themselves.

“Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, **for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the (sacraments). ** The commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not covet, and whatever other (sacrament you might add), **are summed up in this one rule: Love your neighbor. Love does not harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the (sacraments).” ** Romans 13: 8-10

Good, because I didn’t need your help. I do fine following Christ in all his ways. Thank you very much for your concern.

 

[josie_L]

very few … why after all would we? The only thing I would opine on those topics is that I’m always willing to consider rational evidence concerning any issue. If there’s a rational reason for any particular policy & it outweighs the cons, then it’s probably a good idea! I just don’t base my views on mythology or anything that’s not real.

Was there a survey taken by atheists that you should state “very few,” it’s not like atheists have a concise dogma, right?

 

[humble_in_doubt]

Very few? I think there are more than that, but we can go with a very few.

If we “illogical” and “irrational” Christians have our “fairy tales” and our “myths” to fall back on as to why we are so “uncool” when it comes to abortion and gay marriage, what do these few atheists have to fall back on?

Perhaps this is less of a religious issue as you originally thought and more of a right or wrong issue?

Do you believe there is wrong humble? Do you believe there is evil in the world? Is it real?

God bless

I’m a big fan of moral relativism. There is of course an objective standard of right and wrong, but there is also a philosophy beyond good and evil. Wrong is anything that harms other living, breathing human beings. If we wouldn’t want it done to us then we shouldn’t do it to others. I know the bible states that … but that idea has been around for much longer than any bible.

However, beyond that good and evil are largely subjective terms. Why is it evil if two gay people marry each other? Frankly I’m neither gay nor do I have any gay friends. However, two homosexuals doing whatever it is they do in the privacy of their own home certainly doesn’t harm me or anyone else for that matter. So that is not evil behavior.

In fact evil tends to be defined by whomever the ruling power is. When Christians are in control of things almost every sort of fun is considered evil. We should be repulsed by our flesh … the only flesh we’ll ever have by the way. All this in the hope of living forever (I guess we get to fly around with all those angels that somehow continue to elude our telescopes). It just seems very life and world hating, when this is truly the only life and world we’ll ever experience.

Evil has generally been defined (by most societies throughout history) as whatever goes against the establishment. Yet humanity has only experienced radical progress through rebellion. Go figure!

 

[humble_in_doubt]

Was there a survey taken by atheists that you should state “very few,” it’s not like atheists have a concise dogma, right?

it’s the dogma of humble_in_doubt (a legend in my own mind ). My posts are required reading for all atheists (I hope everyone got the memo); and upon peer review and majority consensus they become infallible dogma.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I’m a big fan of moral relativism.

Yes, I thought you might.

There is of course an objective standard of right and wrong

Which is?

but there is also a philosophy beyond good and evil.

How can you have a philosophy beyond good and evil if you can’t tell me what you objectively measure evil by? It’s tough to go beyond evil if there is no objective measure of evil.

Wrong is anything that harms other living, breathing human beings.

Says who? What is the standard you have used to decided this? What is the standard that decides what “harm” is? I want objective answers.

Humble,

One more time, is evil real? If it is, what is the objective standard that you use to judge when something is evil?

Or is:

I’m a big fan of moral relativism.

Your final answer?

And this was never answered:

If we “illogical” and “irrational” Christians have our “fairy tales” and our “myths” to fall back on as to why we are so “uncool” when it comes to abortion and gay marriage, what do these few atheists have to fall back on?

Perhaps this is less of a religious issue as you originally thought and more of a right or wrong issue?

God bless

 

[josie_L]

I’m a big fan of moral relativism. There is of course an objective standard of right and wrong, but there is also a philosophy beyond good and evil. Wrong is anything that harms other living, breathing human beings. If we wouldn’t want it done to us then we shouldn’t do it to others. I know the bible states that … but that idea has been around for much longer than any bible.

However, beyond that good and evil are largely subjective terms. Why is it evil if two gay people marry each other? Frankly I’m neither gay nor do I have any gay friends. However, two homosexuals doing whatever it is they do in the privacy of their own home certainly doesn’t harm me or anyone else for that matter. So that is not evil behavior.

In fact evil tends to be defined by whomever the ruling power is. When Christians are in control of things almost every sort of fun is considered evil. We should be repulsed by our flesh … the only flesh we’ll ever have by the way. All this in the hope of living forever (I guess we get to fly around with all those angels that somehow continue to elude our telescopes). It just seems very life and world hating, when this is truly the only life and world we’ll ever experience.

Evil has generally been defined (by most societies throughout history) as whatever goes against the establishment. Yet humanity has only experienced radical progress through rebellion. Go figure!

If you believe moral relativism to be true than there can be no objective standard for right and wrong. This would be contradictory.

 

[rinnie]

Always I asked you if Love had anything to do with our Salvation, You said Yes by the love of the Father Jesus sent his son.

Now let me ask you the question again, Do we have to love one another as the Father has loved us to be saved? Or can we hate our brother and still have eternal life with Christ?

 

[rinnie]

I suppose you’re right to a point. I guess my words could be viewed as stereotyping … but in fairness evangelicals and Catholics, assuming they hold the position of their respective churches, generally oppose abortion and embryonic stem cell research under all circumstances.

If you personally don’t hold those sort of views then you have to know you likely hold a position that is contrary to your church. That being said I do know there are cool Christian denominations out there (like Episcopalians) who generally support a woman’s right to choose, the right of gay people to marry if they so desire, and embryonic stem cell research.

I still doubt there’s an invisible god out there, or there’s little angels flying around watching over us … but the more liberal denominations (like Episcopalians) are cool as far as I’m concerned (and in fact provide many valuable services for the communities they reside in).

Humble I am picking up what you are laying down here (I think) and I agree with you 100%. I do not agree with your choices you are making at this time, but I still see some deep rooted faith buried within you. I pray some how with God’s grace we can dig it up. Or at sometime soon it your life someone can.

But to more on to the point that you made, Its about Dogma. You said that more or less if you don’'t believe in the dogma of your Church you will hold a position that is contrary to your church. You hit the nail on the head.

Faith comes from God, It is not open for debate and it is not reversible. If we all believe in the same God we must believe in the same dogma. But we can not have the true faith if we separate our self from God’s word and of course debate it and try to reverse it.

1 cor. 1:10 tell us that quite clear. I urge you brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that all of you agree in what you say, and there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind in the same purpose.

Paul went on to say that no one can know what another is thinking inside. But the same Go’s for God No one can talk for him. Only those who have the mind of Christ. So for me to define scripture is impossible. But through the power of the Holy Spirit Jesus left us the church. It is the Church that has that power that is led through the Priest’s given to them by Holy Orders. 1 cor 1:16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to councel him? But we have the mind of Christ. Paul is talking about the Apostles and whoever that power is passed on to.

That proves that we cannot define scripture.

 

[humble_in_doubt]

If you believe moral relativism to be true than there can be no objective standard for right and wrong. This would be contradictory.

well not exactly (I don’t think). You can hold certain rules as timeless objective moral principals (like it’s wrong to kill, steal, etc.), while other things can be more subjective (i.e. gay marriage).

Many Christians would call a non-believer evil (and your bible does so quite explicitly). So I guess according to your apostle Paul and John I would be evil, living in the flesh, a product of the world, and so on. However, I obviously disagree with that idea (and in fact find it quite absurd).

When I’m told I should believe in an invisible friend and flying angels or else I’m evil … I am quietly amuzed (but I’m usually wise enough not to engage a religious zealot in a debate since chances are they will only become exceedingly angry at me).

 

[Contarini]

This is a serious matter, and I am starting to wonder if either no one is reading the plain Truth of the Word, or if somehow it’s not plain to all.

Light begins to break. Your “common sense” is common only to those who share your theological tradition.

So please bear with me and do this one thing I ask. Read the scripture posted in the next couple posts.

The clouds of “common sense” gather again around your intellect.

We know what the Bible says. We don’t agree with your interpretation. You need to make an argument for your interpretation. You seem singularly uninterested in doing this.

Edwin

 

[humble_in_doubt]

Humble I am picking up what you are laying down here (I think) and I agree with you 100%. I do not agree with your choices you are making at this time, but I still see some deep rooted faith buried within you. I pray some how with God’s grace we can dig it up. Or at sometime soon it your life someone can.

keep praying … I’ll let you know if any faith in an invisible god crops up

But to more on to the point that you made, Its about Dogma. You said that more or less if you don’'t believe in the dogma of your Church you will hold a position that is contrary to your church. You hit the nail on the head.

my position is I don’t believe anything in the bible really happened, nor do I believe in a god (at least not as depicted by Judeo-Christianity or any other world religion for that matter).

Faith comes from God, It is not open for debate and it is not reversible. If we all believe in the same God we must believe in the same dogma. But we can not have the true faith if we separate our self from God’s word and of course debate it and try to reverse it.

no … faith comes from nothing. It’s a manifestation of your own mind, usually wrought through the environment you were raised in. Nothing more nothing less.

Since obviously I don’t have a belief in any god or gods I find no value in what you depict as this gods words. I only allow common sense, reason, intellect, and logic to guide me (and sometimes the whims of my flesh, as you guys might say).

1 cor. 1:10 tell us that quite clear. I urge you brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that all of you agree in what you say, and there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind in the same purpose.

yet Christians are more divided than anyone? Go figure; but I know you’ll tell me the answer to this problem. Everyone should join your church … golly how did I guess that one?

Paul went on to say that no one can know what another is thinking inside. But the same Go’s for God No one can talk for him. Only those who have the mind of Christ. So for me to define scripture is impossible. But through the power of the Holy Spirit Jesus left us the church. It is the Church that has that power that is led through the Priest’s given to them by Holy Orders. 1 cor 1:16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to councel him? But we have the mind of Christ. Paul is talking about the Apostles and whoever that power is passed on to.

Well, I guess as I said it’s all ancient mythology with no basis in fact as far as I’m concerned … so probably no point in me commenting on your statement here?

 

[rinnie]

keep praying … I’ll let you know if any faith in an invisible god crops up

my position is I don’t believe anything in the bible really happened, nor do I believe in a god (at least not as depicted by Judeo-Christianity or any other world religion for that matter).

no … faith comes from nothing. It’s a manifestation of your own mind, usually wrought through the environment you were raised in. Nothing more nothing less.

Since obviously I don’t have a belief in any god or gods I find no value in what you depict as this gods words. I only allow common sense, reason, intellect, and logic to guide me (and sometimes the whims of my flesh, as you guys might say).

yet Christians are more divided than anyone? Go figure; but I know you’ll tell me the answer to this problem. Everyone should join your church … golly how did I guess that one?

Well, I guess as I said it’s all ancient mythology with no basis in fact as far as I’m concerned … so probably no point in me commenting on your statement here?

Hi Humble. Oh don’t get me wrong I understand you position totally. And I will keep praying for you. But its the point that you made. I understand you don’t believe in the Church (GOD) but it’s the point you made. And you were right we all have to agree on one Teaching because there can only be one teaching. If we separate ourself from the teaching of the Church we separate ourself from eachother and God. But I understand you don’t even believe anymore, But I won’t give up on you. God won’t either!

 

[rinnie]

well not exactly (I don’t think). You can hold certain rules as timeless objective moral principals (like it’s wrong to kill, steal, etc.), while other things can be more subjective (i.e. gay marriage).

Many Christians would call a non-believer evil (and your bible does so quite explicitly). So I guess according to your apostle Paul and John I would be evil, living in the flesh, a product of the world, and so on. However, I obviously disagree with that idea (and in fact find it quite absurd).

When I’m told I should believe in an invisible friend and flying angels or else I’m evil … I am quietly amuzed (but I’m usually wise enough not to engage a religious zealot in a debate since chances are they will only become exceedingly angry at me).

I am not angry with you humble. ANd I know the chances of me changing your mind are about as good as hitting the lotto. BUT that doesn’t mean I will quit buying a ticket.

 

[josie_L]

it’s the dogma of humble_in_doubt (a legend in my own mind ). My posts are required reading for all atheists (I hope everyone got the memo); and upon peer review and majority consensus they become infallible dogma.

:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

 

[always_gr8ful]

Light begins to break. Your “common sense” is common only to those who share your theological tradition.

As everyone who has read here knows, I have no theological tradition. Let’s face it, whatever book you read that influenced you to the extent to paint everything and everyone one you see into your tradition-in-a-box didn’t take someone like me into account. Sorry - fail.

The clouds of “common sense” gather again around your intellect. We know what the Bible says. We don’t agree with your interpretation. You need to make an argument for your interpretation. You seem singularly uninterested in doing this.

Out of the 173 posts I’ve made on this thread, at least 90% were scripture. How many times did I give my personal interpretation of any scripture? Once. (James 2) How many times did someone comment on ANY scripture I posted? A quick check, six to ten times if we count the “I believe that” as a comment. That’s a whole lot of scripture standing on it’s own for it’s common sense meaning without needing any help from me.

God is so good! When I see His Hand, I can’t help but brag on Him. This, the most popular thread on page one, has 7300 views with about 160 posts of pure Scripture declaring the same thing - That Jesus Christ died for our sins, everyone one of them, and that when we BELIEVE on Him (plus nothing), He and only He saves us and justifies us. The Perfect Lamb of God did for us what we could and can NEVER do for ourselves, a Finished Work unto our salvation. It is God’s promise that when He sends His Word it will not return void. The Lord is Good! His mercy is everlasting, and His Truth endures to all generations.

 

[josie_L]

As everyone who has read here knows, I have no theological tradition. Let’s face it, whatever book you read that influenced you to the extent to paint everything and everyone one you see into your tradition-in-a-box didn’t take someone like me into account. Sorry - fail.

Out of the 173 posts I’ve made on this thread, at least 90% were scripture. How many times did I give my personal interpretation of any scripture? Once. (James 2) How many times did someone comment on ANY scripture I posted? A quick check, six to ten times if we count the “I believe that” as a comment. That’s a whole lot of scripture standing on it’s own for it’s common sense meaning without needing any help from me.

God is so good! When I see His Hand, I can’t help but brag on Him. This, the most popular thread on page one, has 7300 views with about 160 posts of pure Scripture declaring the same thing - That Jesus Christ died for our sins, everyone one of them, and that when we BELIEVE on Him (plus nothing), He and only He saves us and justifies us. The Perfect Lamb of God did for us what we could and can NEVER do for ourselves, a Finished Work unto our salvation. It is God’s promise that when He sends His Word it will not return void. The Lord is Good! His mercy is everlasting, and His Truth endures to all generations.

Even the devil knows scripture.