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pnewton
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Without a doubt this is true. There are many evils in this country that require the cooperation of all holy men and women to combat.
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graceandglory
Guest
I find it interesting though, that during my last trek to an evangelical (protestant) Christian bookstore, the shelves were packed with **solid **Catholic books.
Not sure what to make of that.
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a_burger
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Paul said Scripture is God breathed. Paul knew God a lot better than you do. God would not allow a book to be written with errors. This should end the argument.
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
That is wonderful!! Also ironic. The last time I went to a Catholic bookstore, its shelves were littered with New Age and Protestant books.I find it interesting though, that during my last trek to an evangelical (protestant) Christian bookstore, the shelves were packed with **solid **Catholic books.
Not sure what to make of that.
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Jon_Hus
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Years ago I frequented a Religious bookstore that was run by a nun. Don’t ask me about her credentials or status within her order because I don’t know. All I know is that she was a nun.That is wonderful!! Also ironic. The last time I went to a Catholic bookstore, its shelves were littered with New Age and Protestant books.
Most of the books were about Mary and so forth but there were evangelical books as well. I purchased several books from her that were hostile to Rome. One I remember buying there was the infamous The Two Babylons.
I would just explain it as she simply did not pay attention to what she had on the shelves, nothing more, nothing less.
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pnewton
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That is odd. Our local nondenominational store will not carry that or Jack Chick tracts.
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Jon_Hus
Guest
A lot of evangelical stores will not carry Jack Chick tracts either.
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Contarini
Guest
So you think open-mindedness is a great thing in other folks but have no desire to see your own Church practice it?That is wonderful!! Also ironic. The last time I went to a Catholic bookstore, its shelves were littered with New Age and Protestant books.
Edwin
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Contarini
Guest
You seem to think that “liberals” want to bring Christians in general under government control. That’s a highly dubious and rather paranoid assumption.
And in the second place, “Rome” has the resources to resist government control, and has proved this over and over again throughout the centuries (Rome deals fine with hostile governments; it’s friendly governments that have proven truly dangerous). I’m not so sure evangelicals do.
Edwin
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Contarini
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I wasn’t defending the prediction. I was defending the paper in which it appeared. I’d trust the CS Monitor on this kind of issue long before I’d trust most secular newspapers. My impression is that precisely because of their goofy religious affiliation, they have an openness to generally religious viewpoints that you don’t find in the New York Times, for instance.
I’ll let you know in ten years how goofy this prediction is.
I agree that the statement as it stands is ludicrously exaggerated. Mr. Spencer is making some valid points through grotesque hyperbole. He likes to do that.
Edwin
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Contarini
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Well no, it isn’t (if by “the heart of the matter” you mean “the one thing that will ensure that I have the right understanding of Christianity”). Saying that the Bible is God’s Word does not give you a direct line to a correct interpretation.
If you link your faith in the Bible as God’s Word to something as utterly delusive as a “commonsense interpretation,” then you’re barking up the wrong tree and all your piety will not save you from error and folly. I’m sure God will prevent you from going utterly astray and making shipwreck of your soul if your heart is right, but you can still cause yourself and the rest of the Church a lot of anguish and confusion (in the bad sense!) and destruction.
I could say with at least equal truth: either your interpretation is identical with God’s Word, or it isn’t.
If by this you mean: if everything in the Bible is not wholly accurate in the most commonsense way, then any scripture anywhere is up for grabs. . . . then you are wrong.
In your view Scripture is at the mercy of human thought and opinion. It’s just that you have an idolatrous confidence in this superstitious notion of “common sense,” which you believe will take the place of God’s Holy Spirit and guide you into all truth. And then you have the audacity to claim that you are the one trusting in God’s Word!
You can’t believe in “common sense” and in God’s Word. You can only believe in Scripture as God’s Word if you read it as Scripture: that is, as the Book of the Church, which reads Scripture under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
You’re distorting the meaning of that passage. My lexicon (Arndt & Gingrich, translated and adapted from Walter Bauer’s German original, and published by the University of Chicago Press in 1952) tells me that the Greek word you’re translating as “confusion” (akatastasia, in 1 Cor. 14:33) means “disturbance” or “disorder, unruliness.” Paul is talking about disturbance and unruliness in worship, not in our preconceived human ideas about God, which need to be disturbed every so often. You have no ground for claiming that because your theological assumptions are being disturbed, this disturbance must be the work of Satan. By that logic, Jesus clearly couldn’t come from God, because He disturbed and confused people a lot!
The confusion you are feeling is the promise of possible growth. Don’t shut yourself off from it. God’s Word is not identical to your ideas, whatever you may have been taught.
Edwin
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graceandglory
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Oh, I’m sorry to hear that. That is the state of one of the Catholic book stores near me.That is wonderful!! Also ironic. The last time I went to a Catholic bookstore, its shelves were littered with New Age and Protestant books.
The time before last, though, when I went to a very large, protestant Bible bookstore,
It was this guy hawking this brand of faith, another guy something totally different. When I went in about 5 yrs ago, the shelves were almost screaming this cacaphonous noise of hundreds of differing theologies. For kicks, it was fun to go ask if they carried such and such (classic Catholic) book. The customer service person would generally look at me as if I was on-fire already on my way to hell.
Not the same place this time.
I really think it has to do with the realization of evangelicals that there really does have to be a TRUE FAITH.
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Jon_Hus
Guest
What I’m referring to Edwin are things (political) liberals want such as the fairness doctrine, removal of tax code for churches, free speach vs. freedom of religion, freedom of religion in general, political correctness, removal of religious displays in public. On and on, hopefully you know what I’m talking about. A question Edwin, if mother church cannot rein-in Ted Kennedy and John Kerry over abortion and stem cells, how are they going to stop legislation that will stifle religion? Your answer should prove very interesting.
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Jon_Hus
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I have a different take on Christian (Evangelical) bookstores. Evangelicals, as a class of people in general, buy and read a lot of books. Reference books, inspirational books, how to books, Bibles, you name it. Most of these books are bought from CBD or other on-line or mail order, Amazon or Alibris.com or ebay or used book stores because the price savings to too good to pass up.Oh, I’m sorry to hear that. That is the state of one of the Catholic book stores near me.
…Not the same place this time.
I really think it has to do with the realization of evangelicals that there really does have to be a TRUE FAITH.
I buy 4 or 5 faith related books per month and hardly ever get them at the local Bible book store. I have many books in my personal library that haven’t been stocked locally in 50 years. I have been in my local Bible Book Store many times and unable to find anything I wanted to buy. So for me, what is in stock is no indication as to the general health of evengelicals. I have more Roman Catholic Bibles than my catholic sister who thinks that I’m going right stright to the lake of fire when I die.
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Jon_Hus
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“Could some Catholics be losing faith in their religion? According to a new report released by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Affairs, Catholicism in America is shedding more members than any other traditional faith”…
digitaljournal.com/article/269854
This article mentions Allentown Pennsylvania, I live nearby and there is a lot in the local media about this. And yet evangelicals will be extinct within ten years. wow.
digitaljournal.com/article/269854
This article mentions Allentown Pennsylvania, I live nearby and there is a lot in the local media about this. And yet evangelicals will be extinct within ten years. wow.
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OneTrueCathApos
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Not true, source is not good. There are **1.5 BILLION CATHOLICS AND GROWING. **I know you will go to any website for a disadvantage toward the Catholic church, but you are only grasping at straws.
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Contarini
Guest
Yes, but I think Christians confuse loss of influence in society with actual persecution. Face it, we’ve basically been running the show and are quick to see loss of power as a form of martyrdom.
I didn’t say the Catholic Church could stop such legislation. My point is that they have a good track record of surviving such legislation: 50-100 years of Communism in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union, and about 300 years of persecution by Protestants in the British Isles. Catholics know who they are, and they know that the Church isn’t going away even if there are momentary setbacks. They also have rituals and traditions that are hard to eradicate even if theological training is hard to obtain. So in the unlikely event that Christians are genuinely persecuted in the U.S., as well as the much more likely event that the U.S. might become more like Western Europe, I expect the Catholic Church to do OK.
Edwin
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Jon_Hus
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OK, right, but the bishop in Allentown still closed a whole bunch of churches in NE Pennsylvania, if you want to argue that, be my guest.
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4Squarebaby
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I guess she failed to see that the opinon piece talked about the megachurches in America specifically. And from there the “Evangelical” headline. Meanwhile research in America specifically shows a decrease in the “mainline” Protestant churches with the Catholic Church basically picking up immigrants as the move north.
We should have a case study soon. When Ted Haggard’s personal sins becamre known there was a megachurch standing which lost its charismatic leader. Did the church fragment? Probably, but did they run to the orthodox churches as the opinion writer theorized. My guess is that some left the church entirely, some found the next anointed pastor and some became Catholics. I doubt if the conversion rate changed.
But then as I understand it Haggard’s home church wasn’t part of the “Christian lite, seeker friendly” movement. One of the movements the article writer specifically attacked.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
i read a reference to this in a newsletter i receive. interesting considering how they seemed to come out of nowhere in the early 90’s and really boomed.
i am not crazy about megachurches or the big televangelists that is for sure. i guess they have helped lead a lot of people to Christ and to get them to focus on the Word of God, but i have been raised in the faith of the Catholic church and i think these megachurches have been a fad that will pass away. we can only pray for more conversions, although i find it hard to believe that evangelicals will totally disappear.
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