Evangelicals Will Be Extinct Within Ten Years

[Contarini]

Sorry, CWBetts. Not gonna play your doctrine games. You either believe the Bible is the inerrant very Word of God, or you don’t

Are you suggesting that believing in the Bible (all 66 books and no more) is just an arbitrary choice? You played “eeney-meeney-miney-mo” and somehow picked just these 66 books as the Word of God?

Don’t you think it’s an odd coincidence that the books you believe to be the Word of God should be the traditional list handed down from the early Church (with regard to the New Testament, and with regard to the Old Testament with the exception of the “Apocrypha”–but this exception just happens to coincide with Jewish tradition, so still doesn’t let you off the dreadful accusation of having a “religious tradition” in spite of your protestations to the contrary).

If you think that the Holy Spirit independently led you to each of these 66 books (which is a stretch, since you almost certainly came across them together), and independently led other Christians to exactly the same collection of books, then you have to account for why people listen to the Holy Spirit so well when it comes to picking inspired books, and so badly when it comes to interpreting them.

I recognize that you don’t like thinking about these questions. It disturbs the peace of that religious tradition you claim you don’t have. (If you really didn’t have a religious tradition, you would be happy to think about these questions, wouldn’t you?) But truth, however painful, is good for you.

Edwin

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Are you suggesting that believing in the Bible (all 66 books and no more) is just an arbitrary choice? You played “eeney-meeney-miney-mo” and somehow picked just these 66 books as the Word of God?

Don’t you think it’s an odd coincidence that the books you believe to be the Word of God should be the traditional list handed down from the early Church (with regard to the New Testament, and with regard to the Old Testament with the exception of the “Apocrypha”–but this exception just happens to coincide with Jewish tradition, so still doesn’t let you off the dreadful accusation of having a “religious tradition” in spite of your protestations to the contrary).

If you think that the Holy Spirit independently led you to each of these 66 books (which is a stretch, since you almost certainly came across them together), and independently led other Christians to exactly the same collection of books, then you have to account for why people listen to the Holy Spirit so well when it comes to picking inspired books, and so badly when it comes to interpreting them.

I recognize that you don’t like thinking about these questions. It disturbs the peace of that religious tradition you claim you don’t have. (If you really didn’t have a religious tradition, you would be happy to think about these questions, wouldn’t you?) But truth, however painful, is good for you.

Edwin

Edwin,

Isn’t it a shame that all those great points you just made will be side stepped and deflected into some other topic by the poster? Like I said; it is never fun to look at our faith’s potential short comings and answer for them, but this seems to never stop use from pointing them out in others.

God bless

 

[O.S.Luke]

Originally Posted by O.S. Luke
I’m not an Evangelical in the way you are using the word. But I learned a long time ago to never believe everything you read.

Well, isn’t that what Luther did?

What? And… huh???

 

[O.S.Luke]

Edwin,

Isn’t it a shame that all those great points you just made will be side stepped and deflected into some other topic by the poster? Like I said; it is never fun to look at our faith’s potential short comings and answer for them, but this seems to never stop use from pointing them out in others.

God bless

Best post yet on this thread, RC. Thank you. And thank you Edwin.

O+

 

[josie_L]

Just read a huge article from the Christian Science Monitor that Evangelicals will be gone within 10 years due to the fact they are too much into their Megachurches, and they don’t teach the truth from the Word of God.

No, Evangelicals will not be extinct, they will be Catholic.

 

[always_gr8ful]

Edwin,

Isn’t it a shame that all those great points you just made will be side stepped and deflected into some other topic by the poster? Like I said; it is never fun to look at our faith’s potential short comings and answer for them, but this seems to never stop use from pointing them out in others.

God bless

I would say that holding traditions and outside teaching OVER the very Word of God is more than a “shortcoming”.

Maybe it’s because y’all are always fighting for your traditions that you don’t know there is Truth that is complete and perfect on it’s own. I absolutely PRAISE the new Pope for telling y’all it’s ok to study the Bible.

The Bible isn’t a compilation of books brought together by man. If it was, it would be so full of errors, both historically and figuratively and would have failed as the Word of God centuries ago. But it’s not full of errors, it’s perfect, and it’s perfect because His Word is exactly the way He wanted it. Do you actually believe that God is so weak that He is unable to move man to put the scriptures together in book form - the very scriptures He breathed? The very God who came to earth in the form of a man to die for you?

 

[josie_L]

I would say that holding traditions and outside teaching OVER the very Word of God is more than a “shortcoming”.

Maybe it’s because y’all are always fighting for your traditions that you don’t know there is Truth that is complete and perfect on it’s own. I absolutely PRAISE the new Pope for telling y’all it’s ok to study the Bible.

The Bible isn’t a compilation of books brought together by man. If it was, it would be so full of errors, both historically and figuratively and would have failed as the Word of God centuries ago. But it’s not full of errors, it’s perfect, and it’s perfect because His Word is exactly the way He wanted it. Do you actually believe that God is so weak that He is unable to move man to put the scriptures together in book form - the very scriptures He breathed? The very God who came to earth in the form of a man to die for you?

Do you believe that God is so weak that He was unable to move man to put a Church together that is infallible (in faith and morals)?

 

[CWBetts]

I would say that holding traditions and outside teaching OVER the very Word of God is more than a “shortcoming”.

Maybe it’s because y’all are always fighting for your traditions that you don’t know there is Truth that is complete and perfect on it’s own. I absolutely PRAISE the new Pope for telling y’all it’s ok to study the Bible.

The Bible isn’t a compilation of books brought together by man. If it was, it would be so full of errors, both historically and figuratively and would have failed as the Word of God centuries ago. But it’s not full of errors, it’s perfect, and it’s perfect because His Word is exactly the way He wanted it. Do you actually believe that God is so weak that He is unable to move man to put the scriptures together in book form - the very scriptures He breathed? The very God who came to earth in the form of a man to die for you?

And the Holy Spirit did just that…through the Catholic Church. Simply put, there are no Catholic teachings that run counter to the Bible. ZERO. I would like you to show me just one teaching forbidden by the Scriptures.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I would say that holding traditions and outside teaching OVER the very Word of God is more than a “shortcoming”.

You hold to traditions that are outside the Scriptures as well. This could be shown but you are unwilling to even consider this. You instead deflect the attention on us and try to keep it off of you as much as possible. Which was the point of my comment that you quoted. So if they be shortcomings, at least we will share in them.

Maybe it’s because y’all are always fighting for your traditions that you don’t know there is Truth that is complete and perfect on it’s own. I absolutely PRAISE the new Pope for telling y’all it’s ok to study the Bible.

Christ is truth;*

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life…* Jn 14: 6

And it is the Church which is the pillar and bulwark of the truth;

• if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.* 1 Tim 3: 15

This is a very Biblical position.

Now we could have a discussion on what the, “church” is, but since you have the unfortunate habit of never wanting to discuss what you believe, this would be both unproductive and impossible.

The Bible isn’t a compilation of books brought together by man. If it was, it would be so full of errors, both historically and figuratively and would have failed as the Word of God centuries ago. But it’s not full of errors, it’s perfect, and it’s perfect because His Word is exactly the way He wanted it. Do you actually believe that God is so weak that He is unable to move man to put the scriptures together in book form - the very scriptures He breathed? The very God who came to earth in the form of a man to die for you?

What were the standards that I am to use to determine what writings are scriptural and which are not. And since you insist that we cannot go out side the Scriptures; I want these standards that you give me to be from the Bible. I will except nothing else.

God bless

 

[always_gr8ful]

No, Evangelicals will not be extinct, they will be Catholic.

I would pray not!!

Do y’all even have a clue how serious this is? Tell me, what do the words of Jesus here mean to you?

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
~Matthew 7:21-23

And PLEASE - don’t go looking for what the Chruch says those words say. Just tell me what they mean to you. If I cared what your doctrine says about them, I’d google it.

 

[josie_L]

I would pray not!!

Do y’all even have a clue how serious this is? Tell me, what do the words of Jesus here mean to you?

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
~Matthew 7:21-23

And PLEASE - don’t go looking for what the Chruch says those words say. Just tell me what they mean to you. If I cared what your doctrine says about them, I’d google it.

Always grateful, I was funning, anyways Catholics do believe in the Trinity, we do believe in Jesus our resurrected Saviour, and we do believe that we must follow him in word and deed. So what’s the big deal if someone becomes Catholic?

 

[CWBetts]

I would pray not!!

Do y’all even have a clue how serious this is? Tell me, what do the words of Jesus here mean to you?

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
~Matthew 7:21-23

And PLEASE - don’t go looking for what the Chruch says those words say. Just tell me what they mean to you. If I cared what your doctrine says about them, I’d google it.

It simply means that those that think that just saying a “sinners prayer” will get them a “get out of Hell free card” are sadly mistaken. It says you are not saved by faith alone, but that you must obey the commands of God. This supports the necessity for the sacrament of reconliation. When you sin, you must bring yourself back into communion with Christ.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I would pray not!!

You do not desire unity? Your desire is counter to Christ’s then. See Jn chapter 17 I believe.

God bless

 

[always_gr8ful]

Thank you, CWBetts for giving me your answer.
You would think with scripture as dire as this, more people would be interested.

 

[always_gr8ful]

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”
~Matthew 7:21

Up for some Bible study?
So Jesus is say not every one who says Lord will enter into heaven, but he that does the will of His Father.

What is the will of His Father that we should do?

 

[CWBetts]

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”
~Matthew 7:21

Up for some Bible study?
So Jesus is say not every one who says Lord will enter into heaven, but he that does the will of His Father.

What is the will of His Father that we should do?

Keep his commandments. Every time we sin we seperate ourselves from the Father. Communion can only be restored by confession. THis confession must be facilitated through a priest in the case of mortal sins. John 20:23 says If you frgive the sins of any they are forgiven them. Why would Jesus say thins if reconcilliation was unnecessary. It is always God’s will to NOT sin, so therefore only those whose sins have been forgiven will be allowed entry into Heaven

 

[TheWhoFreak]

What is the will of His Father that we should do?

Check Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Scripture says that we are created FOR GOOD WORKS

We are not created for faith in God, but to carry out the good works which He has planned for us. That’s not Catholic Tradition, that’s Holy Scripture buddy

 

[rinnie]

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”
~Matthew 7:21

Up for some Bible study?
So Jesus is say not every one who says Lord will enter into heaven, but he that does the will of His Father.

What is the will of His Father that we should do?

Thats easy Luke 9:23 The bible says we must deny ourselves and pick up our cross daily.

But goodness gracious that sounds like Catholic teaching to me. Because to pick up your cross daily means works. How can you possible mix faith and works together. That would go totally with scripture and against osas doctrine wouldn’t it.

But how also could someone do the will of the Father without words. Isnt that doing something, But just becasue we as Catholics believe that we are saved by the Grace of God and because if that Grace God gave us was for a reason, to do his works, and because we do his works. Always thinks that we somehow take away from his death on the cross GO FIGURE!

Always says we do not have to do works, its up to us if we want to or not. It does not change a thing, but then she quotes scripture that we must do the will of the Father to get into heaven, So try to figure that out. Thats the gospel according to Always

 

[rinnie]

Check Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Scripture says that we are created FOR GOOD WORKS

We are not created for faith in God, but to carry out the good works which He has planned for us. That’s not Catholic Tradition, that’s Holy Scripture buddy

Amen! And that is our faith. But always says we should not listen to our Church. She said we should figure it out ourselves. Makes you wonder why Jesus left us the Church, maybe always can tell us that.

 

[always_gr8ful]

What is the will of His Father that we should do?

Keep his commandments. Every time we sin we seperate ourselves from the Father. Communion can only be restored by confession. THis confession must be facilitated through a priest in the case of mortal sins. John 20:23 says If you frgive the sins of any they are forgiven them. Why would Jesus say thins if reconcilliation was unnecessary. It is always God’s will to NOT sin, so therefore only those whose sins have been forgiven will be allowed entry into Heaven

Check Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Scripture says that we are created FOR GOOD WORKS

We are not created for faith in God, but to carry out the good works which He has planned for us. That’s not Catholic Tradition, that’s Holy Scripture buddy

Thats easy Luke 9:23 The bible says we must deny ourselves and pick up our cross daily.

But goodness gracious that sounds like Catholic teaching to me. Because to pick up your cross daily means works. How can you possible mix faith and works together. That would go totally with scripture and against osas doctrine wouldn’t it.

But how also could someone do the will of the Father without words. Isnt that doing something, But just becasue we as Catholics believe that we are saved by the Grace of God and because if that Grace God gave us was for a reason, to do his works, and because we do his works. Always thinks that we somehow take away from his death on the cross GO FIGURE!

Hey! Glad we have more participants. Welcome, theWhoFreak.

Ok. Let’s look at what God’s Word says about your answers. But first off, let me say I don’t care if you are Catholic, Baptist, Pentecostal, Church of Christ, etc. - God’s Word never changes and it is what we are all united under. I don’t know who came up with the maxim “In essentials - Unity, in nonessentials - Liberty, and in all things Charity”, but I do know this is an essential and I pray that hearts are opened to God’s Word.

CWBetts, you are all right - God is perfect and we cannot enter His kingdom without becoming absolutely perfect. So in your reasoning, if someone died suddenly without being restored through confession, they would not be perfect in the eyes of God. Now I don’t know if the Church has something to cover such sudden death, but are you aware of just how perfect we must be to stand before Him?

Isaiah 64:6
“But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.”

Jesus said “That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” Well, the Pharisees and scribes kept the law to the letter, and Jesus only had disdain for them. Does this mean we don’t care to keep the commandments? Of course not! At the end of chapter Matthew 5, Jesus says “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” How are you ever going to reach this perfection through keeping His commandments?

Hebrews 10:1
“For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.”

So if the law can’t save us by making us perfect by keeping His commandments, then there must be more - the answers given here are “the works we do”.

Going back to the Sermon on the Mount. Have you ever considered that what Jesus said was impossible? Don’t be shocked - I’m making a bigger point. We would certainly consider things like giving to the needy and loving our enemies “works”, wouldn’t we? But what of “And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” or

“And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” Who here has never been angry with their brother? Remember, Jesus said “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

Continued…