T
tomarin
Guest
You don’t seem to be very impressed with the Incarnation.
- Status
B
BRIT72
Guest
How is the breaking bread a sacrifice?
I have a lot of respect for the Old testament saints and the Apostles, I believe Mary was blessed among women, imagine being chosen to give birth to Christ, but that’s as far as it can be taken, without them becoming idols.
B
BRIT72
Guest
No, but by their works they shall be known.
B
BRIT72
Guest
I don’t understand?
C
CWBetts
Guest
Mary did need salvation. She was preemtively saved. The Blessed Virgin is part of the fulfillment of Genesis 3:15. DOn’t you find it interesting that Jesus calls Mary “Woman”? Another renderign could be “Lady” as in a title of honor! And was does Genesis 3:15 say? "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring (sinners) and hers (Jesus)…
If Mary is a “new Eve” just as Christ was the “New Adam” it would follow that since Eve was created without sin, so would Mary be! Or do you think Adam and Eve were created with sin? I would like to see you back that up with Scripture.
Another thought: Can perfection come out of imperfection? No. Jesus was truly perfect, never sinning and not needing salvation. Mary on the other hand needed a saviour. He immaculate conception preemtively saved her from sin. She was able to live without sin because she never was stained to begin with. Original sin never touched her, so it was an obsticle she did not need to overcome, and that is an advantage none of us have! No one told her she was concieved without sin, and therefore her annual sin offerings were to cover the sin that she assumed she had, but did not know she was free from!
C
ChristusVincit
Guest
Brit my dear, you might not have a sophisticated enough faith to differentiate between that and idolatry but we do.
I mean take the Hail Mary prayer. You might say it’s too much. But think about it.
“Hail Mary, Full of Grace, the Lord is with you” - God’s message to Mary, through Gabriel
“Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb [Jesus]” Words of Elizabeth to Mary.
“Holy Mary” - set apart for a Holy purpose, namely bringing God into the world.
“Mother of God” - to say she was just the Mother of Christ is a heresy, saying there are two persons in Christ. This is called Nestorianism and you wouldn’t be a Christian if you said that.
“Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death” - Nothing I wouldn’t say to my earthly mother, or a friend.
That’s really the extent of the devotion we give to Mary. So, throroughly scriptural and makes perfect sense.
as for the breaking of the bread - look at history and you’ll see how it’s always been seen as that.
C
CWBetts
Guest
Do you need me to explain how the Holy Eucharist is a sacrifice too!!! Before you go around telling CAtholics they are wrong, would it be too much to ask to figure out what we believe?
R
rinnie
Guest
But sweetheart Jesus Christ is the Catholic Church. You cannot separate Jesus Christ from the Catholic Church. How can you say that the Catholic Church is man, when the Catholic Church is indeed the Jesus.
C
ChristusVincit
Guest
T
tomarin
Guest
Because you said: do you honor everyone who says “yes” to God? – as if Mary’s assent to God’s request were some trivial matter.
B
BRIT72
Guest
The woman in Genesis is all mankind (through Eve, not Mary).
Christ was the second Adam, not the new Adam. **’‘For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. ‘‘How did Original sin never touch Mary?’’ For ALL have sinned.’’ **
Mary would have known the Scriptures and that’s how she would have known that she sinned.
B
BRIT72
Guest
But you are chanting Scripture about Mary!
T
TheWhoFreak
Guest
That doesn’t change the fact that it is a legitiamate question.
So answer it, or do you not have an answer that is in agreement with your theology, as I suspect
B
BRIT72
Guest
Go on explain, I’m listening.
B
BRIT72
Guest
No, Jesus Christ is not a Church, he is the head of the Church.
C
ChristusVincit
Guest
Isn’t “For all have sinned” from St Paul?
Bit anachronistic to think that she would know aobut his letters :S
Second Adam, New Adam, same thing. Either way, Mary has ALWAYS been seen as the New Eve, especially by the first generation of Christians. If you think that you know better than them, those who were taught by Christ, or by his apostles, or by their apostles…
… I was going to say “then fair enough” but it’s not fair enough, because you don’t.
If you said any of the stuff that you say to those first Christians, or the Apostles, they wouldn’t know what on Earth you were speaking about. But if we said what we say, they’d know what we mean and would agree. We have their writings, it’s proof!
Oh and by the way, if you said anything like what you’ve been saying about Mary to St Peter, he’d the sort who’d chop your ear off for it
B
BRIT72
Guest
Saul learned that day that when he had been persecuting the disciples of Christ, he had been persecuting the Lord himself. Pain inflicted on the members of the Body on earth was felt by the Head of the Body in heaven.
C
ChristusVincit
Guest
The disciples of Christ = the Catholic Church. Everything you’ve said is true!
Though Christ can no longer feel pain. That’s theologically unsound and very unscriptural.
B
BRIT72
Guest
Did Paul not know what he was talking about?Isn’t “For all have sinned” from St Paul?
Bit anachronistic to think that she would know aobut his letters :S
Second Adam, New Adam, same thing. Either way, Mary has ALWAYS been seen as the New Eve, especially by the first generation of Christians. If you think that you know better than them, those who were taught by Christ, or by his apostles, or by their apostles…
… I was going to say “then fair enough” but it’s not fair enough, because you don’t.
If you said any of the stuff that you say to those first Christians, or the Apostles, they wouldn’t know what on Earth you were speaking about. But if we said what we say, they’d know what we mean and would agree. We have their writings, it’s proof!
Oh and by the way, if you said anything like what you’ve been saying about Mary to St Peter, he’d the sort who’d chop your ear off for it
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: Matthew 15:19.
Peter would not have chopped anything of mine off, he learned from that mistake. Peter is my brother and he would be in agreement.
Btw, Mary is my sister and she would tell you exactly what I am telling you about herself, if she could.
C
ChristusVincit
Guest
Yeah, if she could talk rubbish! Also, Peter disagrees and chastises you about your personal understanding of scripture.
Paul might well have known what he was talking about but it’s immaterial because we’re talking aobut Mary, not Paul, and what she knew.
- Status