Evangelicals Will Be Extinct Within Ten Years

[CWBetts]

They DID preach belief plus nothing for Salvation. Yes, they DID preach “Go forth and sin no more”. but never did they preach that was required for Salvation.

In the Words of Jesus only:

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40
For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:47
I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.

If the Church teachings are in absolute contradiction to the Words of Jesus here, they MUST be rejected, right?

I won’t even bother refuting half verses taken out of context

 

[guanophore]

Oh my, We do have different teachings. We are taught that we are saved by Grace. And by that grace we receive the faith that we need to believe and Love Christ. I have never heard that faith alone saved us. And I have never heard that we could have faith without Grace. I thought it was through Grace that Jesus saved us on the cross. We have really learned the opposite. I never knew you got faith before Grace. How is that possible?

These concepts come from the heretical teaching of John Calvin, they are part of the TULIP formula. Most protestants have been infected by them to one degree, or another. MOst of them don’t even realize it. Those that claim to be “non-denominational” reallly do believe that they are “neutral” in theology (biblical) and are not influenced by these heresies.

 

[always_gr8ful]

Saved through faith, in other words faith brings a person into the good of salvation.

Abraham, Moses, Jacob, David, Paul, Peter, John etc. were all men of faith.

And Rehab. Can’t forget her (she’s crucial in understanding the context of “works” in James 2)

 

[always_gr8ful]

I won’t even bother refuting half verses taken out of context

Not so fast, CW. Every one of those are “stand alone” verses spoken by the Lord Jesus. If you don’t want to believe them, that’s one thing. But to say they are taken out of context is not being honest and truthful.

 

[CWBetts]

Not so fast, CW. Every one of those are “stand alone” verses spoken by the Lord Jesus. If you don’t want to believe them, that’s one thing. But to say they are taken out of context is not being honest and truthful.

They very much are out of context. There is no such thing as a “stand alone verse” to sugest otherwise is intellectually criminal.

 

[Saved43]

Neither Jesus, nor the Apotles presched belief plus nothing. They preached “Go forth and sin no more”

The Apostles preached Christ and him crucified.

The Lord Jesus spoke of himself and how he would go to the cross and provide the only means of salvation and that people needed to humble themselves before God and receive him personally by faith to be saved.

He told the woman that was caught in the act of adultery to “Go and sin no more” not to “Go forth and sin no more”, but he did not say by doing that she would be saved.

Sinning no more would be very good if we could do it, but we cant and that is why we need Christ and need to be born-again with the Holy Spirit indwelling a person who has trusted in Christ. Only then will a person really hate their sin and turn from it, with the Lord’s help/the Holy Spirit’s power to overcome sin. The Holy Spirit is given to a person when personal faith alone is applied in Christ and his finished work alone.

I will give you the same verses that i posted before as it will do you good if you see who are only given the Holy Spirit and that salvation i by faith alone in Christ alone.

“That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first TRUSTED in CHRIST. In whom ye also TRUSTED, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye BELIEVED, ye were SEALED with that HOLY SPIRIT of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.” Ephesians 1:12-14

Personally i know many catholics (and protestants) that take the Holy name of the Lord Jesus Christ in vain daily and frequently and how that is supposed to be going forth and sinning no more beats me. Of course while not blaspheming the Lord’s precious name is good that is not enough to save a person from eternal fire.

 

[CWBetts]

The Apostles preached Christ and him crucified.

The Lord Jesus spoke of himself and how he would go to the cross and provide the only means of salvation and that people needed to humble themselves before God and receive him personally by faith to be saved.

He told the woman that was caught in the act of adultery to “Go and sin no more” not to “Go forth and sin no more”, but he did not say by doing that she would be saved.

Sinning no more would be very good if we could do it, but we cant and that is why we need Christ and need to be born-again with the Holy Spirit indwelling a person who has trusted in Christ. Only then will a person really hate their sin and turn from it, with the Lord’s help/the Holy Spirit’s power to overcome sin. The Holy Spirit is given to a person when personal faith alone is applied in Christ and his finished work alone.

I will give you the same verse that i posted before as it will do you good if you see who are only given the Holy Spirit and that salvation i by faith alone in Christ alone.

“That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first TRUSTED in CHRIST. In whom ye also TRUSTED, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye BELIEVED, ye were SEALED with that HOLY SPIRIT of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”

Personally i know many catholics (and protestants) that take the Holy name of the Lord Jesus Christ in vain daily and frequently and how that is supposed to be going forth and sinning no more beats me. Of course while not blaspheming the Lord’s precious name is good that is not enough to save a person from eternal fire.

Read John 3. THE WHOLE CHAPTER, NOT JUST THE SIXTEENTH VERSE.

 

[workingman]

There is nothing wrong with works for a born-again believer who already is depending on Christ’s finished work and that alone (personal faith in Christ+ nothing) to get them to heaven and save them from hell as the verse in Hebrews 6:10 shows but it does not teach works save or the bible would disagree with itself (which it does not).

The sirach is not part of the true Word of God as it disagrees with the rest of scripture proving itself to be false doctrine/corrupt text and departing from the wholesome words of the true and only rock - the Lord Jesus Christ.

“For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?” Psalm 18:31

Remember if Peter was the rock instead of the stone he was then true scripture would disagree with itself - which it does not. :tsktsk:

Sirach is part of the true Word of God. It just disagrees with your calvanistic theology. This was one of the bigest problems with the reformation. Books that were wellastablished get throwen out. Books like Sirach, Tobit, Maccabees, Wisdome of Solomon, ect…
The reformers did not have a choise they had to through them out due to faulty misguided heretical theology that you seem to like to follow.

 

[CWBetts]

There is nothing wrong with works for a born-again believer who already is depending on Christ’s finished work and that alone (personal faith in Christ+ nothing) to get them to heaven and save them from hell as the verse in Hebrews 6:10 shows but it does not teach works save or the bible would disagree with itself (which it does not).

The sirach is not part of the true Word of God as it disagrees with the rest of scripture proving itself to be false doctrine/corrupt text and departing from the wholesome words of the true and only rock - the Lord Jesus Christ.

“For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?” Psalm 18:31

Remember if Peter was the rock instead of the stone he was then true scripture would disagree with itself - which it does not. :tsktsk:

Go tell the Jews that you thingk theor Canon is corrupt. More anti-Semitism from the Evangelical camp

 

[always_gr8ful]

They very much are out of context. There is no such thing as a “stand alone verse” to sugest otherwise is intellectually criminal.

Stand alone verses are scriptures that are so powerful, so clear, so complete that they are able to stand alone. Nothing before them changes their meaning, and nothing after them changes their meaning.

If you believe they are not stand alone verses and are out of context, you will need to prove it.

 

[workingman]

Stand alone verses are scriptures that are so powerful, so clear, so complete that they are able to stand alone. Nothing before them changes their meaning, and nothing after them changes their meaning.

If you believe they are not stand alone verses and are out of context, you will need to prove it.

You mean the same way you have proved that salvation=belief+nothing.

 

[Saved43]

Read John 3. THE WHOLE CHAPTER, NOT JUST THE SIXTEENTH VERSE.

I have read the whole chapter and alot more and the Lord Jesus has said we must be born-again and must have personal faith alone in him alone to be born-again. Funny enough the sixteenth verse is what God used to speak to me (my heart) so that i would accept his Son personally by faith. Even without the sixteenth verse if you compare all the scriptures you will see by listening to the Holy Spirit that faith alone in Christ alone brings a person into the good of salvation not anything else.

 

[guanophore]

If you keep the scripture in James in it’s context you will see that the writer is speaking to those who are already born-again people that have already received the grace of salvation by personal faith/trust in the Lord Jesus Christ and he was not saying that works save.

I agree that the letter is addressed to the faithful. However, what is represented here is the Apostolic Teaching that salvation is being worked out while we are on this earth, and that saying one is "saved by faith alone’ when one does not demonstrate this faith through their deeds is worthless.

The works followed those who had already applied faith but the works did not save them and certainly without personal faith in Christ they could not do the works of God.

It is true that we cannot do the works that God has prepared before hand that we should walk in them without faith. But, this is why we say that faith is never “alone”. It always is accompanied by hope, and love, which demonstrates itself in good deeds.

Compare scripture with scripture and do not pick a verse here and there to try to say that works save.

No one here is trying to say that we are saved by works. We are saying that faith is never alone.

The Word of God teaches faith alone in Christ alone brings a person to salvation and a person will see that by comparing scripture with scripture.

No, and no, on a couple of accounts. The Scripture does not “teach”. People teach. What you are representing here is something you were taught by someone else. It may seem to you that it comes from scripture, but that is because you are interpreting according to your theological mindset.

Faith is never alone.

A man or woman can try to do his/her own works (works of man) to merit salvation but these are not the same works (works of God) that follow a person that has genuinely repented and put their trust in Christ receiving him as their personal Lord and Saviour.

If a person is depending on their own works to save them from hell they are not depending on the Lord Jesus Christ and his finished work that can only save them from hell. In other words they have not personal faith in Christ and are not born-again. There would have been no need for Christ to have suffered if our works saved us, and we could not do enough works to save us either.

It is very Catholic of you to say this!

 

[CWBetts]

John 3:16 is the easist. Not even a challenge.
You say that this says all we have to do is believe, then poof its a done deal. No worries. If this is the case then why oh why does he say that those who do evil (sin) hate the light? Isn’t Jesus the light? We try to hide our sin, but the closer we get to Jesus, the more our unrighteousness is exposed! and further down, we have a contradiction, or so it would seem. Iused to be a fundamentalist, and it does not surprise me that you are unfamiliar with the next verse I am going to show you, because it goes against your “Faith Alone” heresy. John 3:36

Whoever believes in the son has eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure God’s wrath.
Uh-oh. What’s that obey stuff? if you disobey there are some penalties kind of on the stiff side, dont you think? If we disobey, we suffer God’s wrath. How much of that do you think will be going on in Heaven? Faith + Obedience.

 

[CWBetts]

I have read the whole chapter and alot more and the Lord Jesus has said we must be born-again and must have personal faith alone in him alone to be born-again. Funny enough the sixteenth verse is what God used to speak to me (my heart) so that i would accept his Son personally by faith. Even without the sixteenth verse if you compare all the scriptures you will see by listening to the Holy Spirit that faith alone in Christ alone brings a person into the good of salvation not anything else.

Do you evangelicals skip over every verse that metions obedience? Really! Or are you so blided by false doctrine you just don’t see any of it??

 

[always_gr8ful]

You mean the same way you have proved that salvation=belief+nothing.

Yes, I have proved it with the Word of God. If you don’t believe His Word, that, of course, is your choice.

 

[workingman]

John 3:16 is the easist. Not even a challenge.
You say that this says all we have to do is believe, then poof its a done deal. No worries. If this is the case then why oh why does he say that those who do evil (sin) hate the light? Isn’t Jesus the light? We try to hide our sin, but the closer we get to Jesus, the more our unrighteousness is exposed! and further down, we have a contradiction, or so it would seem. Iused to be a fundamentalist, and it does not surprise me that you are unfamiliar with the next verse I am going to show you, because it goes against your “Faith Alone” heresy. John 3:36

Whoever believes in the son has eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure God’s wrath.
Uh-oh. What’s that obey stuff? if you disobey there are some penalties kind of on the stiff side, dont you think? If we disobey, we suffer God’s wrath. How much of that do you think will be going on in Heaven? Faith + Obedience.

 

[always_gr8ful]

John 3:16 is the easist. Not even a challenge.
You say that this says all we have to do is believe, then poof its a done deal. No worries. If this is the case then why oh why does he say that those who do evil (sin) hate the light? Isn’t Jesus the light? We try to hide our sin, but the closer we get to Jesus, the more our unrighteousness is exposed!

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (Saved)

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (Saved)

18He that believeth on him is not condemned (is Saved): but he that believeth not is condemned already (unsaved, lost), because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19And this is the condemnation (of the lost), that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (the lost)

20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light (the lost), lest his deeds should be reproved.

21But he that doeth truth (the saved) cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

and further down, we have a contradiction, or so it would seem.
Iused to be a fundamentalist, and it does not surprise me that you are unfamiliar with the next verse I am going to show you, because it goes against your “Faith Alone” heresy. John 3:36

Whoever believes in the son has eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure God’s wrath.
Uh-oh. What’s that obey stuff? if you disobey there are some penalties kind of on the stiff side, dont you think? If we disobey, we suffer God’s wrath. How much of that do you think will be going on in Heaven? Faith + Obedience.

Now see, this is what I hate. CW, in order for that to be true, then God’s Word would have to actually say that, right? But the Bible doesn’t say that. You are being deceived, and I really don’t want to be the one to show you.

 

[Saved43]

Go tell the Jews that you thingk theor Canon is corrupt. More anti-Semitism from the Evangelical camp

Have a bit of sense, the real old testament (not the false books that disagree with other scripture and do not come from the orginal texts but from corrupt texts) can be believed by Jewish people as well (born-again believers are far from being anti-Jew), but most of them have not trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ because they failed to realise Isaiah and other old testament scriptures spoke of the Lord Jesus the Son of God and what he would accomplish on the cross to provide salvation. (Thankfully individual Jews are still trusting in Christ and being saved/born-again not trusting in man made catholic/protestant churches/religion).

 

[CWBetts]

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (Saved)

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (Saved)

18He that believeth on him is not condemned (is Saved): but he that believeth not is condemned already (unsaved, lost), because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19And this is the condemnation (of the lost), that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (the lost)

20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light (the lost), lest his deeds should be reproved.

21But he that doeth truth (the saved) cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Now see, this is what I hate. CW, in order for that to be true, the God’s Word would have to actually say that, right? But the Bible doesn’t say that. You are being deceived, and I really don’t want to be the one to show you.

I copied John 3:36 verbatim from my Bible sitting right in front of me.