Evangelicals with gay children challenging church

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I think you’re missing the point. I don’t think MJ is supporting gay people having partners. MJ is simply saying that we shouldn’t assume anyone is a partner of anyone else unless we have adequate evidence, and such evidence hardly ever could be seen at church.

If I went to church with my best friend, you can bet we’d hug each other at the sign of peace, and maybe rib each other quietly if we made a joke before mass. We’d be genuinely affectionate and chummy. We’d be a “couple”, in the way that best friends often seem to be couples. But I certainly hope no one would assume we were gay partners.
I remember once attending Mass while I was traveling. At one point during Mass the priest stepped down from the altar and addressed a young couple who were sitting behind me. In no easy terms he reminded them that they were here to participate in the sacrifice of the Mass and such “shows of affection” were highly improper.

I don’t know what they were doing and since it it was not distracting me…I could care less. But it was distracting Father and probably others who could see what was going on.

I understand that small gestures between friends are harmless but obvious shows of affection have no place at Mass. If others notice it…it is OBVIOUS.

Unfortunately because today’s society is pressing for homosexual acceptance, it is impossible to see a two people of the same sex engage in any sort of physical contact without considering then to be gay.
 
Your becoming scandalous yourself to this website and to the Catholic Church Thorolfr:D
Not true Thoroflr!. You live in the Real world and try too make it more welcoming to all. Papa Francis would not approve of telling others that they shouldn’t be honest about the way they feel. The only person scandalized at all, is probably me, and it’s over the uneducated and ignorant remark made by WilT.😉
 
Unfortunately because today’s society is pressing for homosexual acceptance, it is impossible to see a two people of the same sex engage in any sort of physical contact without considering then to be gay.
And that’s supposed to be **their **problem? Are you saying that, if I playfully jab my friend in the stomach, or if I put my arm around his shoulder while we’re talking with someone, I am causing scandal?!?

Your definition of scandal is wide enough to run a Mack truck through.
 
And that’s supposed to be **their **problem?
Well…“they” are the ones whose advocates and activists are promoting acceptance of homosexual behavior as normal all over the media. So, yes…it is their problem.
Are you saying that, if I playfully jab my friend in the stomach, or if I put my arm around his shoulder while we’re talking with someone, I am causing scandal?!?
Depends where you are, Prod. If you were at the VFW picnic it wouldn’t be a problem.
But if you were in the receiving line to be presented to the Queen of England…it might cause a stir.
Likewise, if you were at Mass, regardless of sexual orientation…it just wouldn’t be cool.

Propriety, Prod, propriety.
Your definition of scandal is wide enough to run a Mack truck through.
I don’t remember defining scandal.
 
Depends where you are, Prod. If you were at the VFW picnic it wouldn’t be a problem.
But if you were in the receiving line to be presented to the Queen of England…it might cause a stir.
Likewise, if you were at Mass, regardless of sexual orientation…it just wouldn’t be cool.
Yes, but I didn’t say it would be *appropriate *in mass. I said it wouldn’t be any indication of my (or my friend’s) sexuality. Do you agree or disagree with that? From what you said earlier, you seem to think that it would be an indication of sexuality, and thus (I assume) that it would be scandal.
 
Unfortunately because today’s society is pressing for homosexual acceptance, it is impossible to see a two people of the same sex engage in any sort of physical contact without considering then to be gay.
I’d hate to think what was going on in your mind if you saw me hugging my grandson.
 
It shouldn’t be that hard to understand. True love between a married couple belongs ONLY to a marriage of 1 man and 1 woman.

It’s both God’s design and Jesus’ as well.

If your a God fearing Catholic then it shouldn’t be that difficult. Pax

Sorry guys, you nitpicking in your male situational still remains wrong. Read above and believe!
 
The passage in 1 Corinthians does not say anything about “sodomites” and the concept of “sodomy” as a sexual sin did not even exist before the 11th century when it was first used by the Catholic theologian Peter Damian. The Greek word used in Paul is “arsenokoitai” which appears to have been invented by Paul since it is not known in any Greek text before him. It is made up of the Greek words “arsen” which means “man” and “koitai” which means “beds.” It’s exact meaning is unknown. It could hardly have been intended by Paul to refer to sexual activity between males since he would have used the standard Greek word for that which was “paiderasste.”
You are kidding, right?

Are you advocating sodomy because 1 Cor does not specifically mention anal sex? The text CLEARLY says, "Shun immorality. Every other sin which a man commits is outside the body; but the immoral man sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own; you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

Knowing the Scriptures… why would you allow your body (the Temple of the Holy Spirit) to be defiled by another man by inserting his penis into your anus? (sorry to be so graphic but that IS the dictionary definition of sodomy)

You can “make up” whatever interpretation you want for “arsenokoitai”. EVERY Catholic Commentary I have searched regards them as wrongdoers who will not inherit the kingdom of God (no matter what interpretation you give).

The precise meaning of the word arsenokoitai is uncertain: in 1 Cor. 1:9, it has been translated as “sodomites” (NRSV, NJB), “homosexual offenders” (NIV), and abusers of themselves with mankind (KJV); in 1 Tim. 1:9, it has been rendered “sodomites” (NRSV, RSV), “perverts” (NIV), “homosexuals” (NJB), and “them that defile themselves with mankind” (KJV). Although the word arsenokoitai does not occur anywhere else in Greek literature, it is an obvious combination of arsen (“male”) and koitai (“to lie with *”); accordingly, most scholars maintain that Paul probably had the aforementioned texts from Lev. 18:22; 20:13 in mind when he used (or possibly coined) this term. The arsenokoitai condemned in the NT are men who lie with males in a manner prohibited in the Leviticus Holiness Code, though the question of whether such men should be called “homosexuals” and of whether their activity should be deemed an example of “homosexuality” remains in dispute (often owing to what those English terms are thought to imply or convey). This discussion is complicated somewhat by the occurrence of another term in the “vice list” of 1 Cor. 6:9. The word immediately preceding arsenokoitai is malakoi, which literally means “soft people” and which has also been translated in a variety of ways: “male prostitutes” (NRSV, NIV), “the self-indulgent” (NJB), and the effeminate (KJV). A common view among modern scholars is that the two words malakoi and arsenokoitai should be taken together as describing the passive and the active partners in a sexual act between two males; both participants, then, are condemned. [As we say in Modern Terms - Pitchers and Catchers - GROSS!!!]

The most extensive biblical reference to sexual acts between same-sex partners (and the only biblical reference to such acts between women) is found in Rom. 1:26–27. There, such activity is mentioned as an example of the perversions that follow when humankind refuses to give glory and thanks to the one sovereign God (see Rom. 1:18–25, 28–32). Paul views such activity as evidence that God’s judgment is in effect; because people did not honor God as God but worshiped images, God gave them up to “degrading passions.” Specifically, “their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another” (Rom. 1:26–27). Paul views such sexual behavior as “shameful acts” and as the products of “a debased mind” (Rom. 1:27, 28). Again, whether the people described by Paul in this text should be called “homosexuals”—and whether the actions described should be regarded as instances of “homosexuality”—is in dispute, depending to some extent on what is meant by those terms.

Furnish, V. P., & Powell, M. A. (2011). homosexuality. In M. A. Powell (Ed.), The HarperCollins Bible Dictionary (Revised and Updated) (Third Edition., p. 388). New York: HarperCollins.*
 
Romans 1 speaks about a litany of sins, all of which “worship the creature above the creator”. Sin is always a deception, and the case for gay marriage is a prime example of “vain reasoning” by “senseless minds” that “exchanges the truth for a lie”. God’s plan for sexuality is “evident… because God made it evident”. This applies to any sin, but the topic of the thread is homosexuality.(lest there be an accusation that gay people are singled out).
Punishment of Idolaters.
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  • The wrath* of God* is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickednessp of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness.
    19
    For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them.q
    20
    Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made.r As a result, they have no excuse;
    21
    for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened.s
    22
    While claiming to be wise,t they became fools
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    and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes.u
    24
    Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts* for the mutual degradation of their bodies.v
    25
    They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.w
    26
    Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural,
    27
    and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.x
    28
    And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper.
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    y They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips
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    and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents.
    31
    They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
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    Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.z
 
Knowing the Scriptures… why would you allow your body (the Temple of the Holy Spirit) to be defiled by another man by inserting his penis into your anus? (sorry to be so graphic but that IS the dictionary definition of sodomy).
Quite a lot of heterosexual women allow their husbands and boyfriends to but their penis into their anus, so it’s not just some gay people:
In a 2007 report regarding the prevalence and correlates of heterosexual anal and oral sex among adolescents and adults in the United States, a National Survey of Family Growth (NSFG) found that 34% men and 30% women reported ever participating in heterosexual anal sex. The percentage of participants reporting heterosexual anal sex was significantly higher among 20- to 24-year-olds and peaked among 30- to 34-year-olds.[61] A 2008 survey focused on a younger demographic of teenagers and young adults, aged 15–21. It found that 16% of 1350 surveyed had had this type of sex in the previous 3 months, with condoms being used 29% of the time.[62] However, given the subject matter, the survey hypothesized the prevalence was probably underestimated.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_sex
 
Quite a lot of heterosexual women allow their husbands and boyfriends to but their penis into their anus, so it’s not just some gay people:]
Your observation has some truth to it I’m sure, but what is your point here?
 
Thorolfr;12556495:
Quite a lot of heterosexual women allow their husbands and boyfriends to but their penis into their anus, so it’s not just some gay people:

It’s an observation with some truth to it I’m sure, but what is your point here?
My take on the statement is that even though some posters here are absolutely obsessed with calling gay people sodomites, many straight people also participate in anal sex. I bet most lesbians would get a real kick about reading from the “experts” here on gay sex how “all” LGBTQ individuals are sodomites! It’s so enlightening for me to learn that conservatives who advocate for smaller government in all cases, still want to be the sex police in your bedroom.:eek:
 
My take on the statement is that even though some posters here are absolutely obsessed with calling gay people sodomites, many straight people also participate in anal sex. I bet most lesbians would get a real kick about reading from the “experts” here on gay sex how “all” LGBTQ individuals are sodomites! It’s so enlightening for me to learn that conservatives who advocate for smaller government in all cases, still want to be the sex police in your bedroom.:eek:
And so what is your point?
 
You are kidding, right?

Are you advocating sodomy because 1 Cor does not specifically mention anal sex? The text CLEARLY says, "Shun immorality. Every other sin which a man commits is outside the body; but the immoral man sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own; you were bought with a price…

The most extensive biblical reference to sexual acts between same-sex partners (and the only biblical reference to such acts between women) is found in Rom. 1:26–27. There, such activity is mentioned as an example of the perversions that follow when humankind refuses to give glory and thanks to the one sovereign God (see Rom. 1:18–25, 28–32). Paul views such activity as evidence that God’s judgment is in effect; because people did not honor God as God but worshiped images, God gave them up to “degrading passions.” Specifically, “their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another” (Rom. 1:26–27). Paul views such sexual behavior as “shameful acts” and as the products of “a debased mind” (Rom. 1:27, 28). Again, whether the people described by Paul in this text should be called “homosexuals”—and whether the actions described should be regarded as instances of “homosexuality”—is in dispute, depending to some extent on what is meant by those terms.

Furnish, V. P., & Powell, M. A. (2011). homosexuality. In M. A. Powell (Ed.), The HarperCollins Bible Dictionary (Revised and Updated) (Third Edition., p. 388). New York: HarperCollins.
👍
 
Those who keep favoring homosexuality intercourse never seem to quote Christian scriptures. In the Catholic faith we follow God sent holy rules. We don’t attempt to change them if we disagree with them.

It shouldn’t be that hard to understand. True love between a married couple belongs ONLY to a marriage of 1 man and 1 woman.

It’s both God’s design and Jesus’ as well.

If your a God fearing Catholic then it shouldn’t be that difficult. Pax
 
The passage in 1 Corinthians does not say anything about “sodomites” and **the concept of “sodomy” as a sexual sin **did not even exist before the 11th century when it was first used by the Catholic theologian Peter Damian.
Not exactly. The Law of Moses required men having sex with other men to be killed.

I have posted this for you quite possibly more than 10 times now every time you make the claim that homosexuality is not condemned in the Bible.
 
Those who keep favoring homosexuality intercourse never seem to quote Christian scriptures. In the Catholic faith we follow God sent holy rules. We don’t attempt to change them if we disagree with them.

It shouldn’t be that hard to understand. True love between a married couple belongs ONLY to a marriage of 1 man and 1 woman.

It’s both God’s design and Jesus’ as well.

If your a God fearing Catholic then it shouldn’t be that difficult. Pax
Not only as Catholics but as christian. It’s so ironic how we hear Protestants say only the bible, yet, they can have 10,000 opinions on this issue. It should not be that hard.

The church gives us rules which were given by God. Yes some Catholics want to bend the rules to their liking but that’s going to be something they will have to respond too.
 
Not exactly. The Law of Moses required men having sex with other men to be killed.

I have posted this for you quite possibly more than 10 times now every time you make the claim that homosexuality is not condemned in the Bible.
The word “Sodomy” does not equal “homosexuality”. The concept of Sodomy has a specific meaning in Catholic theology and heterosexuals can also practice sodomy and be sodomites.
 
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