Evanston pastor pushes for women as deacons

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1holycatholic said:
**Evanston pastor pushes for women as deacons**The Roman Catholic Church is pretty clear on who may join the priesthood: men only.

And the way church leaders see it, there’s no room for debate, even though many adherents to the faith would like to see women in the ranks.

http://media1.suntimes.com/multimed...d_20101031_22_06_08_5901-116-165.imageContent
Rev. Bill Tkachuk

…
Lather, rinse, repeat. Bzzzt!
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The question of Women being able to be perminate Decons is one that is open. There is some evidence that in the early church women did assist at least in baptisms as deacons and in St. Paul’s letter he speaks of women deacons.

The order of Perminate Deaconate as reinstituted by the Second Vatican Council is not a step toward being a priest. It is certainly part of Holy Orders, but has it’s own mission in the Church, a large part is service to charity. The perminate deacon is a bridge of sort between the laity and priest and bishops, as he walks in both worlds.
 
The order of deacon is conferred by the Sacrament of Holy Orders. The three orders in Holy Orders are Deacon, Priest, Bishop. Woman cannot be proper matter for the sacrament; thus they cannot be ordained as Deacons.

Women can certainly assist in many ways, but not in the ordained ministry. That will not happen.
 
FAB said:
The question of Women being able to be perminate Decons is one that is open. There is some evidence that in the early church women did assist at least in baptisms as deacons and in St. Paul’s letter he speaks of women deacons.

The order of Perminate Deaconate as reinstituted by the Second Vatican Council is not a step toward being a priest. It is certainly part of Holy Orders, but has it’s own mission in the Church, a large part is service to charity. The perminate deacon is a bridge of sort between the laity and priest and bishops, as he walks in both worlds.
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Sorry. 'Fraid not. I don’t think soooo. Women cannot be given the Sacrament of Holy Orders. And, no, they’re not some sort of “bridge” between laity and priests and bishops. They are fully ordained, when they are ordained, to Holy Orders. It’s not something they do. It’s not a “job.” It’s something that changes their nature. It is what they become.

The Church received the Deposit of Faith from Jesus, and does not claim the authority to change it. It is what it is. Had Jesus wanted female deacons, priests, or bishops, He would’ve done so, no questions asked. It was very common in those days, since most of the pagan religions had priestesses.
 
I did a back check and found that under some circumstances, a deacon can give a homily.

Our parish recently had two deacons ordained in Rome. Doesn’t that require the laying on of hands?

If so, I can see a time where the organization Women Priests would use these female ordinates to say that they are legitimately ordained in the Catholic Church (which many attempt to say already).
 
Barbkw said:
I did a back check and found that under some circumstances, a deacon can give a homily.

Our parish recently had two deacons ordained in Rome. Doesn’t that require the laying on of hands?

If so, I can see a time where the organization Women Priests would use these female ordinates to say that they are legitimately ordained in the Catholic Church (which many attempt to say already).
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I think some of these “ordained” women have already tried to claim they are ordained. In vain, of course. Like me putting a Mercedes Benz hood ornament on my Honda and claiming it’s a Mercedes Benz. T’aint so. 🙂

It takes more than the actions and good intent (I question this in the case of “women priests”) to confect the Sacraments. Proper matter has to be there, and in these cases, it’s not. Like bread and wine are the proper matter for Sacrament of the Eucharist, men are the proper matter for the Sacrament of Holy Orders. If the priest uses oreo cookies and koolaid in the Liturgy of the Euchrist, even though he may use the “right words” and have the proper intent, then nothing happens. Same applies to any bishop who tries to “ordain” women. Nothing happens, except they’re all excommunicated. No Sacrament of Holy Orders takes place.
 
My understanding is that the term “deaconness” used by Paul referred to those women who assisted in the baptism of other women, as cultural norms did not allow men to touch non-familial women.

Deacons have full authority to deliver the homily at the request of, or permission of the Priest.
 
I think it was a minor (non-sacramental) order of deaconesses, like a traditional lector or acolyte, for a specific purpose: assisting in the baptism of women converts (which was done in the nude with full immersion). No longer needed; but who knows, if our society continues its headlong slide into neo-paganism, the Church may see fit to revive ancient customs that regain their power & relevance.
 
Dressing instructions are given in RCIA so that adult Baptism doesn’t turn into a wet T-shirt contest.
 
Minor correction to the article, a permanent deacon may not marry after ordination. However, a married man may be ordained, but if he becomes a widow, he may not remarry under current church discipline unless he chooses to leave the diaconate and is laiticized. He of course, will for all eternity bear the mark of the diaconate on his soul, even if he returns to life as a layman.

However, I can understand the legitimate desire of some woman to have a recognized leadership role in the church. Currently I do not believe there are any religious orders for married woman, or a secular leadership position with responsibilities similar to a deacon. There are of course other less formal leadership opportunities, but I acknowledge there is a healthy role for formal recognition and affirmation.

However, with all the controversy of woman seeking full ordination, I do not believe this will happen. It would cause too much scandal right now, by appearing to concede ground to woman who have already attempted ordination. It would confuse the issue.

This is quite a shame, because I do believe there are a lot of faithful, obedient woman who could thrive if such a leadership position were available. But in the current climate, I believe the Church will continue to emphasize the unique nature of the sacrament of Holy Orders for male clergy, and thus won’t create any non-sacramental minor orders for woman at this time.

Such a shame that a few woman priests must make things so difficult for those who chose obedience to the church’s authority.
 
Scoobyshme said:
Sorry. 'Fraid not. I don’t think soooo. Women cannot be given the Sacrament of Holy Orders. And, no, they’re not some sort of “bridge” between laity and priests and bishops. They are fully ordained, when they are ordained, to Holy Orders. It’s not something they do. It’s not a “job.” It’s something that changes their nature. It is what they become.

The Church received the Deposit of Faith from Jesus, and does not claim the authority to change it. It is what it is. Had Jesus wanted female deacons, priests, or bishops, He would’ve done so, no questions asked. It was very common in those days, since most of the pagan religions had priestesses.
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The institute of the preisthood was given by Christ, Deacons were first instuted in Acts, by St. Peter.
A carefull reading of the documents say Holy Orders for the priesthood can only be male. Perminate Decaons are not priest and by the nature of the order ,in most cases, will never be.

If you look at the ministry of Christ, one can also see that women were part of the ministry.

I’m only pointing out that there is still discussion on the issue and as such the preist would not be out of line by prompting additional discussion.
 
FAB said:
The institute of the preisthood was given by Christ, Deacons were first instuted in Acts, by St. Peter.
A carefull reading of the documents say Holy Orders for the priesthood can only be male. Perminate Decaons are not priest and by the nature of the order ,in most cases, will never be.

If you look at the ministry of Christ, one can also see that women were part of the ministry.

I’m only pointing out that there is still discussion on the issue and as such the preist would not be out of line by prompting additional discussion.
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See: catholic.com/thisrock/quickquestions/keyword/ordination%20of%20women

Question: Deacons cannot celebrate Mass, so why can’t women be ordained to the diaconate?

Answer: Women cannot be ordained deacons because deacons receive the sacrament of holy orders, which women cannot validly receive. Deacons receive this sacrament in a lesser degree than priests or bishops, but they do receive it, so potential candidates must be capable of receiving it. Deacons do not preside at Mass but they do read the Gospel and are allowed to preach at Mass, functions that are considered in a certain sense to be apostolic. Because deacons share in the apostolic ministry, it is fitting that they be men as were the apostles Jesus chose.

One may discuss the issue all one likes, but it cannot change. Women will never be ordained in the Catholic Church. Not to the priesthood, and not to the diaconate. It’s just the way it is. Can you imagine if the Church changed its teachings every time some culture came up with some politically correct issue? We’d be so confused that no one would know the faith! Not that many do now, at least not in this culture. Americans make very poor Catholics because they are too independent and think that everything is up for grabs. Don’t like some doctrine, protest and legislate against it and “make” 'em change it. The Church has never changed anything in the deposit of faith given us by Christ, nor does it claim the authority to ever do so.
 
Scoobyshme said:
See: catholic.com/thisrock/quickquestions/keyword/ordination%20of%20women

Question: Deacons cannot celebrate Mass, so why can’t women be ordained to the diaconate?

Answer: Women cannot be ordained deacons because deacons receive the sacrament of holy orders, which women cannot validly receive. Deacons receive this sacrament in a lesser degree than priests or bishops, but they do receive it, so potential candidates must be capable of receiving it. Deacons do not preside at Mass but they do read the Gospel and are allowed to preach at Mass, functions that are considered in a certain sense to be apostolic. Because deacons share in the apostolic ministry, it is fitting that they be men as were the apostles Jesus chose.

One may discuss the issue all one likes, but it cannot change. Women will never be ordained in the Catholic Church. Not to the priesthood, and not to the diaconate. It’s just the way it is. Can you imagine if the Church changed its teachings every time some culture came up with some politically correct issue? We’d be so confused that no one would know the faith! Not that many do now, at least not in this culture. Americans make very poor Catholics because they are too independent and think that everything is up for grabs. Don’t like some doctrine, protest and legislate against it and “make” 'em change it. The Church has never changed anything in the deposit of faith given us by Christ, nor does it claim the authority to ever do so.
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CA is only partly correct. JPII suppresed a report that stated the opposite. CA is also insulting to Americans with their statement. Even though this is the teaching at this point, and is to followed faithfully and obediately, but never is a very long time. Since the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and not CA, we can only to see what the future holds and how that guidance is given to best serve the needs of the faithful.
 
FAB said:
CA is only partly correct. JPII suppresed a report that stated the opposite. CA is also insulting to Americans with their statement. Even though this is the teaching at this point, and is to followed faithfully and obediately, but never is a very long time. Since the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and not CA, we can only to see what the future holds and how that guidance is given to best serve the needs of the faithful.
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“insulting to Americans”? Which Americans? CA is giving the only answer possible. Pope John Paul II was quite clear.

God bless,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
“insulting to Americans”? Which Americans? CA is giving the only answer possible. Pope John Paul II was quite clear.

God bless,
Ed
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JPII was clear on no ordination of women as priest, not as much with perminate deacons. If it were so clear the priest in question would not have brought up the issue. CA is insulting Americans with this
Americans make very poor Catholics because they are too independent and think that everything is up for grabs
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