Everlasting Life, what does it mean to you?

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P.S., just as a side note. Don’t these guys pictures bug ya, even on the ones you posted with the handful of Witnesses who are guilty. They all have this same perv look and are usually in their early '50s. Whats up with these guys, don’t they like girls.

Carol, as some studying with the Witnesses, how do you feel about the 144,000 heavenly group. That is a literal number that equates from 12,000 from the twelve tribes. We see so much on the ressurection, Lazeras and coming to life? Besides your acknowledgement of Jehovah’s name, didn’t any of this stuff stick with you that you studied? Plus, would have you left, if the congreation didn’t make you leave without leaving much choice on your own? In otherwords, while you were there was anything driving you out?

It is a big commitmentment a baptized publisher makes…
 
Tommy,
Great questions… I grew up without any religious teaching whatsoever… and I began studying with the witnesses as a teenager so I just accepted whatever they told me. They had answers for ALL of my questions and I never actually considered whether or not the answers were true?

I had questions about the 144,000 when we studies the red Revelation book (can’t recall the title). It just seemed so odd that everything in the book of Rev. was symbolic - EXCEPT that number 144,000??? Also - it seemed that since it actually named the tribes, those people should be jews - not, the for the most part American Jehovah’s Witnesses. Also, it was odd that the number kept shrinking - as the annointed class died off - by the time I left I believe it was less than 10,000 who were left so Amergeddon literally had to be VERY soon since, according to the book of Rev. - the time would be cut short or ALL of them would have died. But now all these years have passed and I’m wondering, honestly, what they did with that number? How many of the 144,000 are left? Since it was “filled” in the 1930’s I believe - it’s almost impossible that anyone from the annointed class is less than 70 years old (with a few exceptions for those who “fell away”) Yet I’m told there are now young people of that “class.” It’s just not possible.

I doubt quite honestly, without an act of the holy spirit that my eyes would’ve ever been opened to the real “truth” about the JW’s had I not be forced out. I was faithful & loyal 100% and I would never have read anything against the organization - so how would I have known? I just accepted whatever I was told without question. All of my friends were JW’s - All of my time was spent in the ministry work. How would I have known? But God is faithful and good and when I was kicked out & not allowed back, He heard me cry out to Him… begging to be shown the truth. He opened my eyes and if He never answered another one of my prayers for as long as I lived, that one prayer answered would have been enough.

There is just a mountain of evidence that proves that the JW’s are not God’s Organization on Earth. They do NOT speak for Jehovah because His true prophets always got it right. He made sure of it. The false prophets got it wrong over & over again… and if you look at the track record of the JW’s - they’ve gotten it wrong over & over again. So if they aren’t his prophets, then they are just making it up. So why should I believe them when they say that only 144,000 go to heaven - that Jesus was an angel - that Armegeddon is coming soon & only JW’s will survive - the the NWT is the correct translation of the Bible - that the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon? It’s all made up. They are not unique… there are all kinds of religions that have bizzare beliefs - that millions of people follow in error. JW’s are just one more in the heap.

I would ask you Tommy - that after being Catholic for 40 years, how could YOU give up Jesus? How could YOU give up the Saints in heaven? Do you honestly believe Mother Theresa was a worker of Satan? Do you honestly believe that the Catholic Church sits in the palm of Satan’s hand? Are you satisfied to NEVER receive the body & blood of Christ again?

My excuse for my ignorance was that I didn’t know any better. I was very young & impressionable and I didn’t know Jesus. I can’t imagine anyone, who once knew Jesus as Immanuel - God with us - to toss that all aside. I can’t imagine anyone who has witnessed the Priest hold up the host and say, “This is my body…” who believed it, and recieved it - to then walk away. :confused:
 
“Many now living will never die” (jw book of 1980) Or something to that effect - I’ve forgotten the exact title
I was told in 1981, that Armagedden would be here before all those living in 1914, who were old enough to understand (9 years was the given age) died.
do the math.
9 years old in 1914 makes a living person 101 years old.
Where’s Armageddon? It better hurry up or no one now living will see it, much less be able to run from it. :rolleyes:
Yet another prediction from “the faithful and discreet slave” debunked.
Jesus tells us we do not know the “hour” - Rev. 3:3 He did not say, “well, no one knows the hour but I’ll let the jws know in about 1900 years so they can prepare themselves.”
 
As a Catholic I attended one hour and fifteen minute service per week which was devouted to the church. Thats it.

Witnesses attend five meetings per week, pioneer about nine hours per week. They read the entire Bible cover-to-cover annually. They spend four to six hours a week doing Bible studies. Thats 20 hours learning about about Jesus and his Father versus 1 hour and fifteen minutes. Who’s giving up Jesus?

I will show you mathmatically how that relates to the 1914 prophecy and something did happen in 1914. 1914 was an important year before the Witnesses were formed. It first was discussed in an early German Publication I don’t have handy year as a year that was going to be significant.

The was the first year that there was actually a World War where nations went against nations. We do read in the book of Matthew the beginning of the end will be when nation goes against nation.

Matthew 24:7-8 says, “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom and there will be food shortages and eathquakes in one place after another”. “All of these things are a beginning of pangs of distress”.

2 Timothy 3:1-5. “But know this, that in the last days critical hards hard to deal with will be here”. “For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self assuming, houghty blasphers, disobedient to their parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasure rather then lovers of God, having a form of Godly devotion but proving false to its power and from these turn away”.

After reading these two passages how can one not think that we may be nearing the end of the current system. Would you say times are getting better or worse? Would you say that the natural disasters (pangs of distress) are more frequest today or less frequest.

The 1914 year was NOT completely wrong, just misinterputed. It was a significant year WWi when nation went against nation marking when Jesus took over the rulership of Heaven and drove the eveil one out. They knoew something was going on but didn’t hit it exactly.

Why 1914? The book of Daniel tess us so. King Nebuchadnezzar (I couldn’t pronounce that one when I was Catholic) had a dream and it related to various time frames. (Daniel 4:16, 23, 25, 32). King Nebuchadnezzar was to spend seven years in the wilderness wondering like an animal.

So the Kings seven years (360 days times 7) equals 2,520 days. Now Jerusalen fell in 607 B.C… If you add the 2,520 days to 607 BC that takes you to 600 B.C. that has NO Biblical event.

However, think about when God created the universe it took seven days. Well a year to God could actually be 1,000 years to man. However a day for a year is a rule set out in phrophecy regarding the Babylonian siege of Jerusalem. Ezekiel 4:6-7 and Numbers 14-13.

So if you apply the days for a year rule and add 2,520 years from 607 BC when Jerusalmen fell that would take you to 1914 AC, a significant year when nation went against nation and Jesus took over rulership of the Heavens. That is why 1914 is significant and YES you are right it is NOT up to man to predict the end of the gentile times.

In that year of 1914 “the appointed times of the nations” were fulfilled and God gave rulership to the “lowliest one of Mankind” - Jesus Christ who was treated the lowliest cause man killed him. Daniel 4:17.

Do Catholics make mistakes? Yes, they apologized for how they didn’t defend the killing of the Jews until almost 50 years later and remained silent. By Pope Pius VII turning his back millions of innocent Jews died in the Holocaust. Pope Pius the VI spoke out against racism and had he not died in 1938 and lived another 5 years there would have been another outcome most likely. But what happened did happen and it is the same with the clegy abuse sacandal, what happened did happen and please do not for a moment down play the importance of it and the signs of the weekness in the church claiming to be God’s only true organization by saying missed prophecies is worse then these horrible murder of millions and 100,000 acts of perversion against our young innocent ones.

The Witnessed one big mistake guessing the end of the gentile times did not cost millions of lives and I can live with their error over the last two HUGE error I pointed out. And I agree with what is being said that it IS not up to man to predict the “hour” of the end. But we do read discussions of it in Matthew and Peter and there are Biblical phrophecies with numbers and time frames that do give us some clues of future events. Peace, tommy
 
Tommy,
Are you willing to say that Mother Theresa was a worker of Satan?

Are you willing to say that Pope John Paul II was a worker of Satan?

Are you willing to say that if Armegeddon happened today, that ALL Catholics would be killed by Jehovah - which would be a final death?

Are you willing to say that the Catholic Church sits in the palm of Satan’s hand and is controlled by him?

You will need to answer yes to all of these questions… and believe them to be 100% TRUE if you become a Jehovah’s Witness.
 
What is it about the tree dream in Daniel ch. 4 that makes a person think that it can be used to predict the date of Christ’s return, in the first place? Daniel plainly says

**The tree you saw… it is you, O king [Nebuchadnezzar]. **Daniel 4:20, 22 Nothing more, nothing less.

Daniel 4:17 (about the lowliest one of mankind) was fulfilled on Nebuchadnezzar. Or else the dream did not have a fulfillment on Nebuchadnezzar. Did the dream, or did it not, have a fulfillment on Nebuchadnezzar?

Notice what Jesus explicitly said about trying to predict the date of his return:

It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has fixed by his own authority Acts 1:7

**you do not know when the master of the house will come Mark 13:35

**you do not know when the time will come Mark 13:33

JWs would have us believe that Jesus concealed these things from the apostles but revealed it to them. The book of Daniel was in existence in Jesus’ day; why didn’t he tell the apostles that the tree dream in Daniel chapter 4 could be used to predict the date of his return, like the JW leadership says? But, as you’ve pointed out, the JW leaders originally got it different then they have it now; they have changed their original teachings, saying it was “new light”. If God was revealing it to them back then through the Holy Spirit, how come they didn’t get it right the first time?

Jesus also said:

**Many will come in my name, saying… `The time is at hand!’ Do not go after them. Luke 21:8 **

Ironically, “The Time is At Hand” was the title of the second volume of the first WT Society President’s 6 volume work “Studies in the Scriptures”. In it CT Russell laid out his original system of eschatology and dating, now all but abandoned by the WT Society. The book is not available from the WT Society but is can be looked at here:
agsconsulting.com/htdbv5/indexb.htm
 
AHF,

Thanks for the link… interesting. One thing that jumped out at me is Brother Russell - the ONE person Jehovah picked as His own spokesman - THE faithful slave didn’t even use “JEHOVAH” the name of God. You would’ve thought that would be one of the first things God told him since JW’s make such a big deal out of it today?
 
Hi Edward George,

Thank you for the kind message! 🙂
I tried to reply back to you but your message box is full.

God Bless you,
CM
 
carol marie:
Hi Edward George,

Thank you for the kind message! 🙂
I tried to reply back to you but your message box is full.

God Bless you,
CM
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:D:thumbsup:
 
As a Catholic I attended one hour and fifteen minute service per week which was devouted to the church. Thats it.
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That was your choice. Mass is said every single day. Why did you not participate in daily Mass Adoration (24 hours in many Churchs), a Small Christian Community Group, a Parish Council, CCD or R.C.I.A. training, a Rosary, or any of the many other choices available to Catholics?
Further, Mass is NOT devoted to the church, it is devoted to Christ.
Who’s giving up Jesus?
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You.
The 1914 year was NOT completely wrong, just misinterp.
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By God?! If the wt is God’s mouthpiece, how could they possibly misinterpret it?
King Nebuchadnezzar (I couldn’t pronounce that one when I was Catholic)
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I don’t know why. I’ve been able to pronounce it since I was 7 years old.
 
Tommy,

I’d rather spend one hour in the Catholic Church worshiping Jesus, than 20 hours in the Kingdom Hall being taught things that aren’t true…

Which brings up a very good question… When do witnesses actually WORSHIP Jesus? I can tell you… never. Oh sure… they study… study like crazy for hours on end… always books that the Watchtower publishes along with the Watchtower’s Bible… and they listen to speakers… that say the words the Watchtower provides. They typically say two short prayers. and they sing two Watchtower written & approved songs per week.

When do they worship? Never.
 
carol marie:
Tommy,
Are you willing to say that Mother Theresa was a worker of Satan?
.
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Hey Guys:

I am right in the middle of this big rellocation thing (cashing in on Calif. property and moving to Reno with family) and haven’t been able to read all yours postsand won’t be able to for a day or two.

No, Mother Theresa was a beautiful person and not a working of Satan at all. She was blessed. I don’t believe one religion can say they are the only ones loved by Jesus. Blessings, tommy
 
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tommy4321:
No, Mother Theresa was a beautiful person and not a working of Satan at all. She was blessed. I don’t believe one religion can say they are the only ones loved by Jesus. Blessings, tommy
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So glad to hear it Tommy! You have a long way to go before becoming a Jehovah’s Witness.

I hope your move goes well. 🙂
CM
 
Thanks, I just found out that the company accepted my request to relocate me back to where I used to be, near my elderly parents, something the Bible tells you to take care of.

Why all this stuff on trying to make the Witnesses make the pope and Mother Theresa Satanic? We don’t discuss them. I can tell you Jesus said the only way to get to the Father is through him. Praying to dead people is not heard by the Father. We don’t spend time calling people satanic to become a Witness, that is absurd.

Prayer should go directly through Jesus to the Father or they don’t get heard and someone praying to a saint, a pope or Mother Theresa is saying a prayer to someone other than the Father and not being heard becaue Jesus said we have to go through him to get to the Father. The Father is a jealous God who wants all praise and worship. The pope is a man who’s seed comes from Adam and is not perfect as I pointed out how the church ingored the death of the jews in WWII. In fact Moses said thou shall not kill.

Why is all of a sudden the new pope so popular? Just because he’s a pope? All praise should go to the father, not a man who’s seed is from Adam.

As far as the comment about worship, we sing, pray and read the Bible and with no offense to anyone I don’t find the same prayers being repeated over and over each week a superior form of worship. It is redundant.

By saying that I am not following the Witnesses because I won’t go along with calling a nice lady who was following false teachings satanic isn’t fair. It’s about loving and respecting your neighbor, something Jesus wanted us to do.

As far as the tree dream, Daniel is about phrophecies, not about their current events happening entirely then. That is why they called Daniel a Prophet. Sorry this is another weekness among the church in not recognizing the importance of phrophecies in my opinion.

OK, the topic of this post, Everlasting Life, I have concluded from I read here that not alot of emphasis should be placed on the OT? I think there is much to learn from the prophecies in the OT and we should be careful not to think for a moment it’s only about what was going on then, it is telling us about our future destiny. Have a good weekend, I will certainly have my hands full with the move. tommy
 
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catsrus:
That was your choice. Mass is said every single day. Why did you not participate in daily Mass Adoration (24 hours in many Churchs), a Small Christian Community Group, a Parish Council, CCD or R.C.I.A. training, a Rosary, or any of the many other choices available to Catholics?
Further, Mass is NOT devoted to the church, it is devoted to Christ.

You.

By God?! If the wt is God’s mouthpiece, how could they possibly misinterpret it?

I don’t know why. I’ve been able to pronounce it since I was 7 years old.
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Hey Catsrus:

I thought I would pop this one up just for you.

It is sort of tempting to get into the same old dialogue about which religion is right, but the common ground between various religions is love. When I read threads put up I feel kind of down when I see one Christian following put the other down and get uplifted when I read statements focused on Christian brotherly love, regardless of who may be right in the matter.

It goes a little bit further too. It has to do with how we worship and praise God by his name (we see that quite a bit in the Bible, but God is not a name). God gave his name to Moses in Exodus 6:3 and told us to love his name, Yahweh is Hebrew and God requested we rejoice and “sing” praise to His “name” from Psalms 93 through Psalms 104 and do this through the Mighty One, Jesus, who rules in Heaven.

The apostle John writes: “do not be loving either the world or the things in the world” - the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life - does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world" 1John 5:19. Jesus Christ warned against seeking glory from men. He scathingly denounced the hypocritical religious leaders of the Jews who liked to pray standing in synagogues and who loved the prominent places at evening meals and sitting in the front seats in the synagogues. These leaders received honor from men and not God Mt 6:5, 23:2, 5-7 Luke 11:13.

Therefore, love should project to God and not men and perhaps religious leaders are Brothers and not Fathers, that place the wrong authoiry (one that belongs to God and not man) I don’t know the answer here for sure. Jesus said, “He that is fond of his soul destroys it, but he that hates his soul in this world will safeguard it for everlasting life”. John 12:23-25.

But one who considers life in the world secondary and loves Yahweh God and Jesus Christ and their righteousness above everything else, will receive everlasting life. God hates liars because they have no love of the truth. Love, such as God is so wonderful it is hard to define.

Paul details, “Love is long-suffering and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, does not get puffed up, does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interest, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things”. 1co 13:4-7.

Love is long suffering and kind. It puts up with unfavorable conditions and wrong actions of others, doing so with a purpose, namely, to work out the eventual salvation of those doing wrong or others involved in the circumstances, as well as bring honor and vindication, finally, to God’s name 2 Peter 3:15. God is not a name but a title, so why do we always just say God? I don’t know the answer here but maybe others do? Peace and Love, tommy
 
Tommy,

I brought up the question about Mother Theresa & the Pope & all other Catholics around the world because you keep preaching brotherly love and touting all the nice things about the witnesses but either you haven’t been told yet or you’ve failed to appreicate that once you cross over & become a Jehovah’s Witness through baptism, you will be REQUIRED to believe that ALL CATHOLICS (including Mother Theresa) are serving Satan.

Ask the brother who is studying with you what would have happened to Mother Theresa if Armegeddon came before she died. I know the answer to that: She would suffered the wrath of Jehovah because she was not serving Him. Likewise with the Pope and all Catholics - regardless of their devotion.

Now maybe you are saying to yourself… well big deal… so THEY say that… I wouldn’t believe that. I believe Mother Theresa was a wonderful woman. As one who’s been there, done that… let me assure you that as a JW, you are no longer allowed to think for yourself. Having your own “opinion” is NOT an option. If the WT says she was serving Satan… (and they do) she was serving Satan. Case closed.

And don’t think that hearing over & over again that those who die at Armegeddon will suffer the wrath of Jehovah & the birds will eat their flesh until there’s nothing but bones left doesn’t do a number on a person. Is your wife thinking of becoming a JW also? Because how freaked out will your son be to hear on a regular basis that if his Mom doesn’t join the JW’s she’s going to die at Armegeddon - which by the way is any day now.

This is how twisted it is: I used to pray to Jehovah that my ENTIRE family (who were not JWs) would die in like a car accident so they wouldn’t be here when Armegeddon came.

At least in the Catholic Church we leave eternal judgements up to God - knowing that only He can know a person’s heart. There is always hope…
 
Tommy,
You asked:

God is not a name but a title, so why do we always just say God?

What does your son call you? Does he call you Tommy? No, of course not… he calls you Dad probably? Why… when “Dad” is just a title… aren’t you worried that maybe he’s refering to some “other Dad” and not you… HIS ONE TRUE DAD?

See how ridiculous that argument is? YOU know your son… you KNOW he is calling YOU - even though he will only use a “title” his entire life. I am certain when you hear him say “Dad” you never once question his devotion to you.

Now don’t you think if you are able to pull that off… figure that out, with your limited intelligence, how much more so is an all knowing God?
 
I don’t find the same prayers being repeated over and over each week a superior form of worship. It is redundant.
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Finding the wt answers at the bottom of the page and parroting them back is not redundant?

Tommy, you used 7 entire paragraphs to quote scripture to me as though you are teaching me something, and answered none of my questions to you.
I have heard the jw “teachings” and have rejected them for the One Holy Apostolic Church. So please don’t waste your type “teaching”.
Once again;
If the wt in Brooklyn is the mouthpiece of God, HOW did they misinterpret 1914? How did God allow his word to be misinterpreted by his “prophet”? You may want to think long and hard about that one or, perhaps you already have, have no answer and therefore, have ignored the question.
And I asked you why you did not involve yourself in all Holy Mother Church has to offer instead of complaining that Sunday Mass was only 1 hour and 15 minutes and not enough worship for you.
Ultimately, we, ourselves are responsible for our relationship with God. We are NOT called to just sit back and wait for something to be scheduled for us - like the kh “meetings”. There is much to be done in the world that will not be accomplished by sitting in a kh and knocking on doors. In case you haven’t noticed, the want and need of many is in our faces every single day. I too live in The Bay Area. Watch the news. You could have done so much but are relinquishing your responsibility to yourself, your fellow man, and to Christ by insulating yourself against the work and spending all your time quoting the Bible to those who are hungry, jobless, and dying in the streets. And don’t tell me you are “feeding” them God. That is typical jw narrow, blind “reasoning” that they believe absolves them from all responsibility to their fellow creations.
 
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