Everlasting Life, what does it mean to you?

[tommy4321]

What does it mean to you about everlasting life? Are we in spirit or physical form or perhaps some in physical and some spiritual? What is the New Heaven and the New Earth and how do they differ?

What about our loved ones, do we remember them? If we do remember them and they do not gain salvation will it make us unhappy if they are not there and we will miss them? Who will we see, Jesus, Moses, Noah and John?

Who would you like to see and what would you ask them? Will we be with Jesus, new companions, and/or family members. I definately do not know this answer as it is one of life’s mysteries.

The Earth was intended for everlasting life until Adam sinned and life spans were 950 years originally. That’s also how long Noah lived and does go against the evolution theory. Once Satan is driven out from the Earth and his influences are gone, we will have paradise Earth restored (or a new one created) with true believers of Jesus Christ for 1,000 years while Satan is locked up in the Abyss according to Revelation. God must regain his sovereingty that Eve allow the evil one to gain and the issue of God’s sovereingty over the evil one is why in my opinion God didn’t just start over with Noah creating the first man again in Adams place.

The evil one is getting what he can before he is locked up in the abyss and that is who is to blame for all the pain and suffering we are going through due to disasters. terrorism, war, starvation and troubles that plague the human family and our times are much worse than they were twenty years ago. Are things getting better or worse?

The 144,000 actual number of the holy ones, priests and heavenly rulers with Jesus in Heaven (new Heaven) for all prophecy in the Bible has come true. The “great crowd” in Revelation would refer to those who may have been defiled, but repented and are destined for the New Earth to live under Jesus’ rule under his heavenly government of holy ones.

The believers in Jesus Christ who repented of their sins and changed their ways excersing faith in Jesus our King, will have a beautiful restored life in an Earthly paradise with no Satan influences (New Earth).

The scripture quote that I was able to find on the New Earth and New Heaven comes from Isaiah 66:22 taken from the New Jerusalem Bible as follows: “For as the “new” heavens and the “new earth” I am making will endure before me, declares Yahweh, so will your race and name endure”. My question here is what the new earth and Heaven He is making for us or restoring? Maybe the New Heaven is the Heaven existing after Satan is hurled down to earth with all his demons and fallen angels. Perhaps some may know more then I know about this?

Throughout my Christian study of the Bible, I have noticed that there is not a lot known on the topic of the new Heaven and the new Earth as stated in Isaiah Chapter 66. I hear quite a bit of different variations about the afterlife, but really cannot gain a lot about the general view of what New Heaven and New Earth means as stated by prophecy in Isaiah Chapter 66. Set aside religious views and think if you can only about what is stated in the Bible about everlasting life, the new heaven, the new earth, the ruling class and the great crowd and how they differ. Peace and Love, tommy

 

[At_His_Feet]

Tommy -
The great crowd is before God’s throne in heaven:
**
Revelation 7:9-10** “After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. And they kept on crying with a loud voice, saying: ‘Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb’.”

Revelation 7:15- “For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.

In the same place as is said of the 144,000:
**
Revelation 14:3** “And they (the 144,000) are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders…”

The angels are there, too:
**
Revelation 7:11** “And all the angels were standing around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell upon their faces before the throne and worshipped God.”

** Later on in Revelation it says that there is a “great crowd” in heaven: **

Revelation 19:1 “After these things I heard what was as a loud voice of a great crowd in heaven.”

There is one hope held out to believers in the New Testament: **
**
Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling;

A good discussion of “the new heavens and new earth” is found here: catholic-forum.com/members/popestleo/bibleteach3.html

 

[Mystophilus]

tommy4321:

What does it mean to you about everlasting life? Are we in spirit or physical form or perhaps some in physical and some spiritual? What is the New Heaven and the New Earth and how do they differ?

I have no idea, and it does not really bother me at all. While I am interested in most aspects of Christianity, the whole afterlife seems to be stunningly irrelevant. It will happen to me when it happens, one way or another.

So, I cannot answer your questions here at all. Sorry.

If we do remember them and they do not gain salvation will it make us unhappy if they are not there and we will miss them?

If we love them, we will miss them.

God must regain his sovereignty that Eve allowed the evil one to gain

Is all of that really Eve’s fault? If God is omnipotent, then God allows all things that happen, and cannot lose sovereignty. If God is not omnipotent, God is merely a creature like us, and not God.

The evil one is getting what he can before he is locked up in the abyss and that is who is to blame for all the pain and suffering we are going through due to disasters.

See above, under “omnipotent”.

Throughout my Christian study of the Bible, I have noticed that there is not a lot known on the topic of the new Heaven and the new Earth as stated in Isaiah Chapter 66.

The Bible is about this life. Christianity is about service, not reward.

 

[tommy4321]

Mystophilus:

Is all of that really Eve’s fault? .

If Adam and Eve allowed sin to enter our lives as the first human couple it’s a pretty heavy duty thing. Thats why in my opinion the “lesser” things could be a greater thing to God, especially when it comes to his soveriengty over satan and the influences that his seed caused us to inherit sin from. Look how Job proved that humans did not just act upon what is in it for us and proved God’s soveriengty over the evil one.

But what I am real curious about in this thread is what the beliefs are between the “New Heaven” and the “New Earth” or if they are the same spiritually. Peace, tommy

 

[Steven_Merten]

Hello Tommy,

Time is a measure of change bettween matter, energy and empty space. Time has no constraints over our Spiritual God who is Omni-Present to the whole of physical time. Also the past of physical time must bend and shape to the awesome power of our Omni Powerful, Omni-Present to all of physical time, Spiritual God’s hand.

Please visit Jesus Loves God and Creation

 

[puzzleannie]

when our earthly bodies die our souls live forever and are judged and end up in heaven, hell or purgatory. At the end of time our bodies will be resurrected by the same Divine power that created them and our souls and bodies will be reunited. The general judgement of those already dead, and those still alive at the end of the world will take place and, hopefully, our life with God forever commences, in resurrected, glorified bodies, in a perfect world of which this present sinful world is only a shadow.

 

[tommy4321]

puzzleannie:

when our earthly bodies die our souls live forever and are judged and end up in heaven, hell or purgatory. At the end of time our bodies will be resurrected by the same Divine power that created them and our souls and bodies will be reunited. The general judgement of those already dead, and those still alive at the end of the world will take place and, hopefully, our life with God forever commences, in resurrected, glorified bodies, in a perfect world of which this present sinful world is only a shadow.

I wish it was this clearcut and simple. The word purgatory doesn’t appear once in the Bible. I was up visiting my father over the weekend who is 88 years old. As a Roman Catholic he believes when my mother leaves she’s going to make a clear shot to Heaven and he will spend time in purgatory. I believe they will both be ressurected at the same time when Jesus’ returns and there will be no seperation in time they will have.

Jesus Christ told his disciples “Lazarus our friend has gone to rest, but I am joureying there to awaken him from ssleep”. Jesus said plainly, “Lazarus has died” John 11:23,24. Lazarus’ mother Martha expresses no thought of an immortal soul living elsewhere at death. She did not believe that Lazarus had gone to some spiritual realm to continue his existence. Marth had faith in a wonderful “resurrection” of Lazarus from the dead which Jesus proved to mankind a glimpse of what happens in the afterlife.

Jesus is the one empowered by God to redeem mankind (Hoeea 13:14). In response to Martha’s statement, Jesus said, “I am the resurrection and the life”. "He that exercises faith in me, even though he “dies” will come to life (John 11:25)

The Bible never uses the expression “immortal soul”. The Bible simply states that the sinning human soul dies (Ezekiel 18: 4,20). Therefore the Bible points to the resurrection as the real remedy for death.

Our almighty Creator who has abundant power can create a newly formed body for a resurrected soul and a Heavenly body for those in Heaven who share in Jesus’ Holy annointed class of Holy Ones and priests who will share in the undoing of all the efects of death and satan influences inherited from the first man, Adam (Romans 5:12, Revelation 5: 9,10).

Adam did not have a soul, he was a soul. God formed man - the soul - from elements here on earth and breathed air into him to form him. (Genesis 2:7). Once Adam died, he returned to “dust” and his soul was no more.

Psalms 146:4 says that “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish”.

So in other words, we are totally asleep with no thoughts until the resurrection (no immortal soul). Seems a bit complicated but the Bible gives us a wealth of information on the subject. Peace and Love, tommy

John says in Revelation 20: 12-14 “The sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Hades gave up those dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds. And death and Hades were hurled into the lake of fire. This means, the second death, the lake of fire”.

The Bible removes this confusion about death and states plainly that “death is the last enemy” that will be destroyed. (1Corinthians 15:26). Since God can can’t evey hair on our head he will have a stored memory of us to judge

God will have have good things in store for the ones who loved Him (Psalm 145:16).

 

[At_His_Feet]

Tommy - in your first post you stated that the 144,000 will be “in heaven”, and that the Great Crowd are destined for the “New Earth”, meaning (as I understand that you are under the influence of Jehovah’s Witnesses), that the Great Crowd will spend eternity on earth and only 144,000 will be in heaven. The language here, and supposedly the interpretation, is taken from the 7th and 14th chapters of Revelation.

But notice the following scripture comparisons (citations are from the New American Standard Bible; “great multitude” is the equivalent of the New World Translation’s "great crowd;emphasis added):

The Great Crowd is before the throne of God:

Revelation 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb

Revelation 7:15 For this reason, they the great multitude] are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple

What does Revelation mean when it says “before the throne of God”?

The throne of God is in heaven:

Revelation 4:2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and One sitting on the throne.

The 144,000 are there:
**
Revelation 14:1, 3:** And I looked and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand… And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders

The angels are there, too:

Revelation 5:11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne

** Later on in Revelation, it talks about a “great multitude in heaven”:**

Revelation 19:1 After these things I heard something like a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying “Hallelujah! Salvation and power and glory belong to our God…”

According to the above comparisons, the Great Crowd is in heaven, in the same place as the 144,000 and the angels. What you seem to be doing is reading a pre-existing notion into the text in order to support an **unscriptural two-hope theory:

Ephesians 4:4 **There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling

 

[catsrus]

All your references as to the whereabouts of a person after death are taken from the OT.
I know the jws cling to Ecc 9:5 for “proof” of the state of the dead.
HOWEVER, in Christ all things are made new. He came to fulfill the OT and to promise us the possibility everlasting life.
Contrary to what the wt is teaching you, Heaven is a state of being, not an actual physical place, the earth or otherwise.
Do not reduce God to your thoughts and understanding. He is timeless and limitless, a great and glorious mystery and cannot be put into a box. which is exactly what the wt does with Him.

 

[tommy4321]

At His Feet:

Tommy - in your first post you stated that the 144,000 will be “in heaven”, and that the Great Crowd are destined for the “New Earth”, meaning (as I understand that you are under the influence of Jehovah’s Witnesses), that the Great Crowd will spend eternity on earth and only 144,000 will be in heaven. The language here, and supposedly the interpretation, is taken from the 7th and 14th chapters of Revelation…

The Great Crowd is before the throne of God:

Revelation 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb

Revelation 7:15 For this reason, they the great multitude] are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple

What does Revelation mean when it says “before the throne of God”?

The throne of God is in heaven:

Revelation 4:2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and One sitting on the throne.

The 144,000 are there:
**
Revelation 14:1, 3:** And I looked…
The angels are there, too:

Revelation 5:11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne

** Later on in Revelation, it talks about a “great multitude in heaven”:**

Revelation 19:1 After these things I heard something like a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying “Hallelujah! Salvation and power and glory belong to our God…”

According to the above comparisons, the Great Crowd is in heaven, in the same place as the 144,000 and the angels. What you seem to be doing is reading a pre-existing notion into the text in order to support an **unscriptural two-hope theory:

Ephesians 4:4 **There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling

Hi AHF: I am under the influence of the Bible. Sounds like, this Bible Student is making posts while reading under the influences of studing with the Witnesses. Kind of like driving under the influence. I am not a fully converted Witness yet, they are way against Forums and influences of the Internet and you will not find a true Witness on these forums, non-existant, and it makes we wonder what the JW portion of this site is about since there are non there. I try to state what I say out of direct quotes from the Bible and I do wonder if you regulars here might be a bit tired of me yet?

The Bible makes a reference to the New Heaven and the New Earth in Isaiah Chapter 66, so there is a difference between the two. They are not the same. Some oranges and some apples for example. Look at the criminal who was put to death with Jesus and when he excercised faith in Jesus, Jesus told him he would be with him in paradise. This is the New Earth. We don’t know if it will be a restored Earth here, somewhere else or a newly created one. Adam and Eve originally had everlasting life right here on earth, explain that? Would they still be here if the serpent did not take things in another direction or be in heaven?

When we read about the 144,000, this is the group of the Holy Ones, priests and kings that will be part of Jesus’ heavenly government. Part of the reason for resurrecting some to Heaven is to complete God’s purpose for the earth. Jesus Christ and the 144,000 undefiled chosen ones will progressively bring obedient mankind back to the perfection that our original parents (Adam and Eve) through away.

Adam and Even were given condition prospects of everlating life right here on earth, were they not? I do not view them as story book characters, or consider their sin to be having intercourse as some believe. They lost God’s soveriegnty over the evil one as our first parents and allowed, sin, pain, suffering, disasters to plague the human family until satan is locked up in the abyss. All of this from a small thing of eating the apple to gain the knowledge that God had, to know the difference between good and evil and to give their offsping (humankind) temptation. Small things are important to Jehovah God.

So tell me this, if there is not this chosen group of Holy Ones, 144,000 and a great multitude of those who exercised faith in jesus and turned from sin and repented, then how do those two groups differ (New Earth and New Heaven)? Explain Isaiah 65: 21 “and they will certainly build houses and have occupancy and they will certainly plant vinyards and eat fruitage”. What does that mean then??? I’m Glad you decided to put a version of this that you had up for a few minutes before deleting it cause I wanted to ask you this. Your brother in Christ, tommy

 

[Ignatius]

tommy4321:

What does it mean to you about everlasting life? Are we in spirit or physical form or perhaps some in physical and some spiritual?

Human beings are both physical and spiritual. God alread created purely spiritual beings, the angles. The Scripture tells us that we “will be raised incorruptable”, that is with glorified, everlasting bodies.

 

[tommy4321]

catsrus:

All your references as to the whereabouts of a person after death are taken from the OT.
I know the jws cling to Ecc 9:5 for “proof” of the state of the dead.
HOWEVER, in Christ all things are made new. He came to fulfill the OT and to promise us the possibility everlasting life.
Contrary to what the wt is teaching you, Heaven is a state of being, not an actual physical place, the earth or otherwise.
Do not reduce God to your thoughts and understanding. He is timeless and limitless, a great and glorious mystery and cannot be put into a box. which is exactly what the wt does with Him.

I cling to Jesus, the Father and the Bible. I learn from 7 transations of the Bible and don’t mind having to translate what The New American Bible says in Psalm 110:1 where is says, “The Lord said to the lord…”. (meaning God the Father said to His son Jesus). Many Bibles conceals God’s name but I still like this New American Bible because it’s my first Bible I received in 1970. Read what the New Jerusalem Bible says in Psalms 110 " Yahweh declared to my Lord…"which do you like better?

You can read from nearly all versions of the Bible and even though they have different translations they generally have the same message throughout. We can use a Title (God, Lord ect… or a more personal name i.e. Yahweh) or a more personal name. If God’s name appears in the New Testament I don’t think it would bother God, in fact he may feel rejected, if we didn’t accept, praise and honor His name.

I’ve learned from my pages of posts here that religion (maybe not you all here) has an issue with rejecting God’s name in the New Testament? Also in my pages of posts you will not read one direct quote from the Watchtower. What I speak about comes from the Bible, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[tommy4321]

Ignatius:

Human beings are both physical and spiritual. God alread created purely spiritual beings, the angles. The Scripture tells us that we “will be raised incorruptable”, that is with glorified, everlasting bodies.

Agree, right on!

 

[At_His_Feet]

Tommy - part of the error consists of an overemphasis on or incorrct application of OT restoration prophecies. One of the things that JWs do is take the restoration prophecies of the OT (for example, the one you cited from Isaiah - spoken before the deportation to Babylon) , and apply them to the Christian hope. Why aren’t these types of prophecies repeated in the New Testament?

Another thing that JWs do is to incorrectly separate the “New Heavens and New Earth” terms - making one apply to one group and another apply to another - which as I showed, is against the teaching of the New Testament that there is only one hope for Christians. If you think there are two hopes held out for Christians in the New Testament, can you site a scripture that explicitly states it (I’ve already shown one that explicitly states one)?

One of the best internet sites that shows up the error of this thinking is the newly developing Catholic Christian response to the new WT book “What Does the Bible Really Teach” -
catholic-forum.com/members/popestleo/bibleteach.html
A discussion of the “New Heavens and New Earth” is found in the response to chapter 3. There it says:
** “When the Bible speaks of the “new earth,” it always speaks of it together with the “new heavens.” (2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1; Isaiah 66:22) They are never referred to separately. Why? Because, as already noted above they are shown as joined together. The Witnesses separate the new earth from heaven**.” Go here for the full discussion:
catholic-forum.com/members/popestleo/bibleteach3.html
These articles are written by a man who was once a Jehovah’s Witness and is now a Catholic.

A key to understanding it is to see that, in the New Testament, heaven and earth are described as coming together. Again, quoting from the article sited above:
“…what theologians describe as “the final state.” Heaven and earth (the “new heaven and the new earth”) are joined together. The passage refers to the New Jerusalem “coming down out of heaven from God” to the new earth.”

I’m going to try to illustrate this by showing the Beatitudes, and emphasizing the reward:

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are they who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

Blessed are the merciful, for **they shall obtain mercy.
**
Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God.

Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

Pay special attention to the phrase “they shall inherit the earth” . Sounds like an “earthly hope”?(JW language) But do you see how it is combined with seeing God, being children of God, having the Kingdom of heaven, (JW language for the “heavenly hope”) It is one hope.

And Tommy, you are under the influence of the JWs - nobody else I know of (except derivitive groups or remnants of the old Bible Students) describes things this way. And you have said on other threads that you attend their meetings and read their books. The influence may only be partial for now, I understand. By the way, were you aware that the JWs originally taught that the Great Crowd was a “heavenly class”, but later changed it?

 

[carol_marie]

Tommy,

I think that At His Feet did an excellent job of explaining from scripture where the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ claim that “You can live forever on Paradise Earth” falls woefully short.

It is clear that although you are Catholic, you’ve taken to their ideas. I would like to encourage you to consider the source of all of your “knowledge.” It’s not from the Bible alone - you’ve clearly “studied” the books published by the WT - which is unfortunate because the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society are false prophets. In the relatively short time that the religion has been in existance - the leaders have made countless predictions that have not come true. They have also changed their opinions on countless “rules.” They claim that they alone speak for Jehovah God - yet we know that God does not change. So obviously they make that claim in error.

Since I have ZERO faith that the Watchtower Society speaks with any authority whatsoever - I believe that their interpetation of “Everlasting Life” - as you stated is nothing more than their active imaginations.

I feel so very sad for you.

 

[tommy4321]

At His Feet:

Tommy - part of the error consists of an overemphasis on or incorrct application of OT restoration prophecies. One of the things that JWs do is take the restoration prophecies of the OT (for example, the one you cited from Isaiah - spoken before the deportation to Babylon) , and apply them to the Christian hope. Why aren’t these types of prophecies repeated in the New Testament?

OK, I believe the Jehovah’s Witnesses ARE into the truth and I believe many here are interested in what is being discussed here (I’ve been with both groups for years, obviously more receintly the Witnesses). What I put up under Revelation(s) are we ready… here, is in the top twelve posts in this catagory in terms of the number of views and posts(outside of polls with over 300 posts). There is interest in these subjects.

The Old Testament is still valid and CANNOT be ignored. Here is a few prophecies that show the NT and the OT tie:

Isiaih 7:14 Born of a virgin Matt1;18-23
Jer 31:15 Babes killed after Birth Matt 2:16-18
Isaiah 61: 1-2 He commissioned from God Luke 4:18-21
Isaiah 9: 1-2 Ministry caused people to see a great light Matt 4:13-16
Psalms 69:9 Zealous for God’s house John 2:13-17
Isaiah 53:1 Not believed in John 2:13-17
Zech (;9 Ps 118:26 Hailed as king coming in God’s name Matt 21:1-9
Ps. 41:9 109:8 One apostle betrays Jesus Acts 1:15020
Zech 11:12 Betrayed for 30 sheckles of silver Matt 26:14,15
Psalms 27:12 False witness used against him Matt 26:59-61
Psalms 22:18 Lot cast for his garments John 19:23,24
Isaiah 53:12 Numbered with sinners Matthew 27:38
Psalms 22:7-8 Reviled while dying Mark 15:29-32
Psalms 69:21 Given vinegar Mark 15:29-32
Isaiah 53:5 Zech 12:10 Pierced John 19:34, 37
Isaiah 53:9 Buried with the rich Matthew 27:57-60
Psalms 16:8-11 Raised before corruption Acts 2:25-32 13:34-37

These are all prophecies from the Old and New testament that tie.

 

[tommy4321]

catsrus:

All your references as to the whereabouts of a person after death are taken from the OT.

"He that exercises faith in me, even though he “dies” will come to life (John 11:25)

Hey Catrus, I think this “coming to life” stuff mentioned earlier does actually come from the new testatment.

 

[Tonks40]

tommy4321:

The Old Testament is still valid and CANNOT be ignored. Here is a few prophecies that show the NT and the OT tie:

Isiaih 7:14 Born of a virgin Matt1;18-23
Jer 31:15 Babes killed after Birth Matt 2:16-18
Isaiah 61: 1-2 He commissioned from God Luke 4:18-21
Isaiah 9: 1-2 Ministry caused people to see a great light Matt 4:13-16
Psalms 69:9 Zealous for God’s house John 2:13-17
Isaiah 53:1 Not believed in John 2:13-17
Zech (;9 Ps 118:26 Hailed as king coming in God’s name Matt 21:1-9
Ps. 41:9 109:8 One apostle betrays Jesus Acts 1:15020
Zech 11:12 Betrayed for 30 sheckles of silver Matt 26:14,15
Psalms 27:12 False witness used against him Matt 26:59-61
Psalms 22:18 Lot cast for his garments John 19:23,24
Isaiah 53:12 Numbered with sinners Matthew 27:38
Psalms 22:7-8 Reviled while dying Mark 15:29-32
Psalms 69:21 Given vinegar Mark 15:29-32
Isaiah 53:5 Zech 12:10 Pierced John 19:34, 37
Isaiah 53:9 Buried with the rich Matthew 27:57-60
Psalms 16:8-11 Raised before corruption Acts 2:25-32 13:34-37

These are all prophecies from the Old and New testament that tie.

You’re right. The OT is valid, and is important because of what you stated above. But the coming of Christ not only fulfill these prophesies, they supercede them if we are to truly follow Christianity.

 

[carol_marie]

"He that exercises faith in me, even though he “dies” will come to life (John 11:25)

Hey Catrus, I think this “coming to life” stuff mentioned earlier does actually come from the new testatment.

Tommy,
I don’t intend to ever experience “death” beccause my faith in Jesus Christ will allow me to pass over from this life to the next.

Let’s look again at the passages in John ch 11… these are Jesus’ words:

“I am the ressurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and WHOEVER LIVES AND BELIEVES IN ME WILL NEVER DIE.”

Isn’t that good news?!

 

[tommy4321]

carol marie:

Tommy,
I don’t intend to ever experience “death” beccause my faith in Jesus Christ will allow me to pass over from this life to the next.

Let’s look again at the passages in John ch 11… these are Jesus’ words:

“I am the ressurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and WHOEVER LIVES AND BELIEVES IN ME WILL NEVER DIE.”

Isn’t that good news?!

Yes, that would be good news. However, that would support the theory of "everlasting life, one that is not disrupted by death of the mortal being. That theory could have been ebraced both by the pope and Mother Theresa who both experienced death. It would also support the notion of being alive in the last days and enduring the great tribulation to never experience death.

One correction, i am not a Catholic anymore.

I do agree that the only prophecies are those stated in the Bible and there are mistakes when man tries to intervene and predict and won’t argue here. They must all be supported with Bible prophecy, which the seven times Daniel does make sense adding 2,520 years to Daniels life and coming up with 1914 where Jesus took over the rulership of Heaven and I do agree that predicting the end of the gentile times was a mistake. I read that even Russell didn’t like when predictions were made and they were coming as early as 1822 from German publications.

However, when I read the articles from the month before lasts Catholic Newspaper that comes to me about the millions being spent on the bigger unmentioned scancals being settled out here in the SF Bay Area I know in my opinion which mistakes mean more to me. I ask which are more important to God and feel secure in my families choice. Please don’t feel bad for me, I feel bad for those elder people that live in a false pretense that they are going to spend time in purgatory or suffer in a fiery hell from what false teachings taught them. P.S., I do believe we will all experience death, unless it is true we are in the final days and the tribulation is about to hit us smack in the face (then we may never die).

There are some good points that it is not up to man to decide the end times and that is the ONLY shortcoming I see. All the material I read from is entirely scriptual based and we have gained a ton of knowledge and prayers are much more frequent and regular in our household as a result (not a sad thing).

Incomplete and man directed prophicies is what I read here as being the major shortcoming pointed out were with the Witnesses (agree?). Compare that to the other false teachings about purgatory, fiery hell, last months settlement issues making headlines, elderly souls repeating rosary prayers over and over (rather than just talking to God through Jesus), men leaders wearing a robe and taking on the name “father” (Matthew speaks out against), bronze and gold idols used in worship, pagen non-Godly holidays, non-practicing members snoozing through the mass, a great of bulk of so called Catholics only attending mass at Christmas and Easter, favored status given to bigger money doners and the lack of a response from the Vatican during the Holocaust during WWII which 40 years later the chuch came out and said too made a mistake to name of few.

I am not claiming to have all the answers, but am hopeful that perhaps a guest(s) here will see some truth to the scriptures that I have cited in my prior posts and it may help them out similar to how it made us realize we were following false teachings in my opinion for many years and thats why I have choosen to post at the place on the Web that I would say my following is about the least most popular and probably so I am here. I am still not sure while reading some other posts here on other threads why the themes are usually based on argumentive and disagreements here among yourselves as opposed to a harmonic fellowship unity flow that I found on another site I was on a few months ago that was more of a comparative site from walks of all religions based in the UK. It’s about 98%+ Catholics here and that is what has attracted me here is to learn what supports the beliefs I once followed. Peace in Christ, tommy