Every religion in the world is convinced they are right, what sets us apart?

[rjs1]

Cheddarsox,
I am sorry you felt bound to make a rather agressive response. Your comments about my faith response to miracles is judgemental, hurtful and dismissive. You dismiss my faith as being dependent upon “these few acts of weirdness”.

The Catholic Church has recognised the reality and beauty of miracles for two thousand years and has never described them as “parlour tricks” or “acts of weirdness”.

The Church has encouraged the faithful to see in miracles signs from God to help us in our faith.
Of course all of creation is God’s handiwork, but the fact that so many see this creation and remain atheists or agnostics shows that it is not necessarliy self evident that a creator God is behind all that is.

I am very puzzled as to why a couple of the people posting on this site are so critical of the idea of miracles when the Bible itself describes many miracles and in John’s Gospel calls them signs - signs to the reality of God’s truth.

 

[cheddarsox]

rjs1:

Cheddarsox,
I am sorry you felt bound to make a rather agressive response. Your comments about my faith response to miracles is judgemental, hurtful and dismissive. You dismiss my faith as being dependent upon “these few acts of weirdness”.

**I truly feel it does the faithful and the church no good to focus on the miracles. And some of them are in the vein of “parlor tricks” It reduces the divine to some type of fool singing for his supper. To draw attention to them over the everpresent grandeur of the universe and its workings is bad policy and bad theology.
**
I am sorry if I insulted your faith. I meant only to comment on your post, not to cast aspersions concerning your personal relationship with God.

The Catholic Church has recognised the reality and beauty of miracles for two thousand years and has never described them as “parlour tricks” or “acts of weirdness”.

The Church has encouraged the faithful to see in miracles signs from God to help us in our faith.
Of course all of creation is God’s handiwork, but the fact that so many see this creation and remain atheists or agnostics shows that it is not necessarliy self evident that a creator God is behind all that is.

**You said this,not me.

If they wont look around and see the work of the divine, they wont believe, even if one should come back from the dead. Those were Jesus’ words.**

I am very puzzled as to why a couple of the people posting on this site are so critical of the idea of miracles when the Bible itself describes many miracles and in John’s Gospel calls them signs - signs to the reality of God’s truth.

**You can have your miracles, but I think to keep putting them forth as proof of God’s truth is bad policy. It makes people’s faith dependant upon extremes. Creates an addiction to the high, so to speak. And if something happens to cause them to doubt the miracle, too often their faith goes with it.Miracles may be gifts for the faithful, but they are often stumbling blocks for the unbeliever.

cheddar**

 

[Atreyu]

You can have your miracles, but I think to keep putting them forth as proof of God’s truth is bad policy. It makes people’s faith dependant upon extremes. Creates an addiction to the high, so to speak. And if something happens to cause them to doubt the miracle, too often their faith goes with it.Miracles may be gifts for the faithful, but they are often stumbling blocks for the unbeliever.

I don’t think he ever meant to suggest using miracles as “proof” of God’s truth. Rather they are signs, that can help us. They are not proof in and of itself. Check this quote by Augustine (emphasis mine):

“There are many other things which rightly keep me in the bosom of the Catholic Church. The consent of the people and nations keeps me, her authority keeps me, inaugurated by miracles, nourished in hope, enlarged by love, and established by age. The succession of priests keep me, from the very seat of the apostle Peter (to whom the Lord after his resurrection gave charge to feed his sheep) down to the present episcopate”

Kremisos let me ask you this one question. What defines a canonical book of the Bible?

 

[LSK]

I think your idea of consistency and the rest of the world’s might be slightly different. I don’t think Paul or Peter would’ve taught the world that there are lesser sins that will not condemn a man to death. I also don’t think they would’ve taught men that sin offerings (such as confession), can be made. No man has the authority to grant God’s forgiveness. Christ died so that sins might be forgiven, and men could live by the Spirit rather than the sinful nature that the Law condemned us to.

Actually I have a very normal and well accepted idea of consistency, and you are incorrect where you state that the Church (by using your example of St. Paul and St. Peter) has not always taught that there are lesser sins and that we should confess our sins to one another and to those in authority, an authority based in Jesus Christ and not in mere humanity. The sacrament of Penance and Reconcilliation are Biblically based. Please refer to Mt 9:2-8, Jn 20:23, Jn 20:22, 2Cor 5:17 - 20, James 5:13 - 15, Jam 5:16, Mt. 18:18 and 1 Jn 5:16.

You also seem to think that a Church being full of sinners and going through times of corruption means the Church has ceased to exist or to function as the Body of Christ. Shoot, if that was the truth then fundamentalist Bible Christians, American Baptists, Ultster Protestants, and Anglicans would have a hard time explaining how they can claim to be valid organizations when members have spent generations blowing up the Churches attended by African Americans because they had the audacity to want to vote, or lynching Blacks and Jews because they might have committed a crime, thrown women aside because the babies they birthed were not male and bombed Irish neighborhoods because the majority of the people living there were Catholic.

The harsh reality is there is not an organized religion on the FACE OF THIS EARTH who has a spotless reputation or a history that does not include with corruption, hatred, murder, rape and other crimes. What that proves is that, despite the best efforts of God’s creatures, God’s CHURCH is still here…we are not nearly as smart or as powerful as we think we are…

The Catholic Church is the only consistent Christian Church - take any doctrine we espouse today and trace it back as far as you can…you will see that, just as Holy Scripture teaches, we have always existed under the auspices of the Holy Spirit, Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. It is what it is…

 

[Church_Militant]

Magicsilence:

As above, every religion has a number of proofs that they are correct, each deny every other religion, and each are convinced that they are the one true religion.

How are we any different from the rest of the world religions.

On a side note, if everyone in the world is convinced that their religion is correct, how can anyone go to hell?

One can be convinced that murder is righteous, yet that would not negate the natural law that tells us that it is wrong even apart from the 10 commandments. Denying others is no proper test, is it? The fact is that Catholics do not so deny…

How can anyone go to hell MS?

 

[buffalo]

Only one can actually be right. If the others are right they would all be one. Some have partial truths but only one contains the fullness of truth and that is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Jeus - His Catholic Church.

 

[Libero]

Some catholics unfortunately consider themselves to be superior to the extent of becoming a snob, this always annoys me.

 

[LSK]

Libero:

Some catholics unfortunately consider themselves to be superior to the extent of becoming a snob, this always annoys me.

I think this is something that affects people across the board, Catholic Christians and our seperated brethren and I absolutely agree with you - it is SO annoying…

uh oh…did that sound snobbish:banghead: . I swear I am my OWN WORST ENEMY

 

[Petergee]

Magicsilence:

On a side note, if everyone in the world is convinced that their religion is correct, how can anyone go to hell?

Ultimately it’s what you DO in your life that determines whether you go to Hell, not what you are convinced is correct. I don’t think there is anyone in the world who is so conceited that he thinks he has never done anything contrary to his religious or moral principles.

 

[Magicsilence]

I guess I’ll address this “modern prophet” because it seems no one else is.

kremisos:

I think you’re a bit confuse. For one I am on no high horse, and for two I have no dance with the devil. I have no need to search for him who found me the day I was born. I am no better or worse than any other person, however there is a vast difference between discerning spirits and walking in faith with the Holy Spirit. I have studied the Bible enough to verify why I and everyone is born with the Holy Spirit. I also have studied enough to know why people refuse to let go of the world.

The bible was born of the Catholic Church. What you are saying is you follow ONE ASPECT of Christs Church, needless to say, you are missing the picture.

You may see me as arrogant, but that is not the case at all. I was born God’s slave, and will die God’s slave. What I say here is for your benefit as well as in his defense. I’m not suggesting that God needs defending, but rather suggesting that he is offended. The Catholic Church and many other churches as well have totally disregarded not only Christ’s purpose, but the New Covenant that he gave to us. Frankly, I find this upsetting, but don’t think that I claim righteousness.

What are you talking about? Just how exactly have WE disregarded Christs message, are you just lumping us in with all other Churches? Dont. We are very different. Remember, our doctrine has held strong for 2000 years, unlike other churches we dont buckle under media pressure.

What’s between me and God is simply between me and God.

And…

My claims are not judgments, but rather instructions from the almighty.

That is a VERY heavy claim, you are speaking for God? Does he know?

If you don’t choose to see that, that is your choice. If you think that Christ was the last prophet and there haven’t been many since with spiritual gifts given from the Spirit that is also your choice.

We know full well that God can give his saints gifts of prophecy, we see it littered throughout the history of our Church.

You can disregard the truth when it’s staring at your face as well, but this doesn’t change one simple fact. You don’t have much time to make this decision.

Just who exactly are you referring to? Statistically I will live for another 50 years at least, and hopefully that will be 50 years of service to Christ my King. I wasnt aware that God was giving death dates and end of world dates out now.

If I can save my soul by saving others, then that is my choice, whether or not you agree.

How are you saving others by preaching that the Bride Of Christ is wrong???

That is the mission and purpose that was given to me by God himself.

Tell me, if God Himself gave you the message, how did he prove that he was God.

If you don’t believe that God intervenes through man, then your Bible means nothing to you, because it was written through man, and not by man.

You’ll be hard pressed to find a Catholic that doesnt believe God intervenes through man. Cough cough Jesus cough cough.

Let me ask you a question though. What do I gain by posting that which I have posted? Have I come here looking for new friends? Have I come here for any other purpose but to relay a message? I benefit nothing by posting on here in a worldly sense, so our my motive wordly?

You may not realise it now, but by posting these kind of words you convince yourself that you are right. It is not for any wordly gain other than self assurance. If you can convince another that you are a prophet from God then surely that means you must be. What someone said above is right, you are surely dancing with the devil.

cont…

 

[kremisos]

LSK:

Actually I have a very normal and well accepted idea of consistency, and you are incorrect where you state that the Church (by using your example of St. Paul and St. Peter) has not always taught that there are lesser sins and that we should confess our sins to one another and to those in authority, an authority based in Jesus Christ and not in mere humanity. The sacrament of Penance and Reconcilliation are Biblically based. Please refer to Mt 9:2-8, Jn 20:23, Jn 20:22, 2Cor 5:17 - 20, James 5:13 - 15, Jam 5:16, Mt. 18:18 and 1 Jn 5:16.

You also seem to think that a Church being full of sinners and going through times of corruption means the Church has ceased to exist or to function as the Body of Christ. Shoot, if that was the truth then fundamentalist Bible Christians, American Baptists, Ultster Protestants, and Anglicans would have a hard time explaining how they can claim to be valid organizations when members have spent generations blowing up the Churches attended by African Americans because they had the audacity to want to vote, or lynching Blacks and Jews because they might have committed a crime, thrown women aside because the babies they birthed were not male and bombed Irish neighborhoods because the majority of the people living there were Catholic.

The harsh reality is there is not an organized religion on the FACE OF THIS EARTH who has a spotless reputation or a history that does not include with corruption, hatred, murder, rape and other crimes. What that proves is that, despite the best efforts of God’s creatures, God’s CHURCH is still here…we are not nearly as smart or as powerful as we think we are…

The Catholic Church is the only consistent Christian Church - take any doctrine we espouse today and trace it back as far as you can…you will see that, just as Holy Scripture teaches, we have always existed under the auspices of the Holy Spirit, Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. It is what it is…

Tradition is only tradition. Your first clue as to whether or not something is righteous in God’s eyes should be it’s acceptance. What is widely accepted by the world is not widely accepted to God. The way to God is a very narrow path.

Your examples are examples of Christ’s forgiveness, apostolic forgiveness (those who were filled with the Spirit), and any man who is righteous and lives by the Spirit. There is no example where a man should confess his sins to a righteous man. While it is true that men should confess their sins to each other, and pray for each other, what does this do for a man who continues to sin anyways and is not prayed over by the righteous?

2CO 5:16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

This here is one of your examples. We regard no one from a worldy point of view. Do you know what this means? It means that we are the Children of God, and can only regard men from a spiritual point of view, knowing that we are of the same Spirit. If God reconciled himself to us through his Son who was without sin, so that he might be our sin, wouldn’t reconciling ourselves to God mean sinning no more? I think this proves my point thoroughly that yes Christ was our last sin offering. There is no room for forgiveness if someone continues to sin. If we are to become the righteousness of God, then how can we be prodigal sons over and over again? This is not how relationships work. Everytime you sin, you are slapping God in the face, walking away, and then coming back hoping he’ll take you with open arms. Do you think a confessional booth serves a good purpose for an apology to slapping your Father and Creator in the face? We are taught to confess our sins to each other and pray for each other so that we may sin no more, and live by the Spirit.

(continued…)

 

[kremisos]

***1JN 5:16 If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

1JN 5:18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him. 19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. 20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true–even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

---

Yes there is sin that does not lead to death. Does this make this a lesser sin? No. All wrongdoing is sin. What is the extent and result of sin? Death. Death is the full measure of sin. This is a cause and effect relationship. Sin is the cause, and death is the effect. In 1 JN 5:18 it says:

***1JN 5:18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him. ***

By this you should know that anyone who does continue to sin, is not born of God and will not have salvation. What comes from God returns to God, and what comes from below returns below. You’re right in saying that no organization including the Catholic Church is free from corruption. This is why no organization can claim to be the one true Church. The one true Church is in fact the Body of Christ. As a member of the Body of Christ you should put your trust in God, and not in the world, any organization, country, or social group.

Your complete faith and trust should be in God. There is no person no matter how great or small that you should trust or love more or even as much as God. When you have established this sort of relationship with God, have let go of everything you fear losing, and let his Spirit overwhelm you so that you might do his will, you will no longer be under the yolk of sin. He will talk to and instruct you in all of your ways. These men, are few on this planet, and it is up to them to bind people to the Spirit so that they may be bound to Heaven.

I am not playing a right or wrong argument with you here. I am asking you to let go of everything for a moment and hold on to God alone. At this moment in time, you will realize the truth in my statements, and you will see and hear the same things that I see and hear. You will not only be filled with the Holy Spirit, but you will also have the ability to discern the spirits in others. Do not be alarmed or afraid if you see or feel the dark forces around you. As long as you hold onto your faith and stray from sin, they will flee from you. If anyone has ever saught undeniable evidence in the existence of God, this is the test I offer you.

Let go of everything that you know and understand to seek God. This may take a day, it may take days, it may take weeks, it may take months, but it will happen. You will see the flaws in finite three dimensional human logic, and grasp the concepts of infinity and everything. You will no longer see the world ruled by physics, and you will no longer fear anything in life. Unify yourself with the Spirit and you will be wearing the full armor of God. When you have done this, you will have no reason to fear the dark days that are coming. Nothing can harm you if God is your shelter.

 

[Magicsilence]

cont …

Perhaps you should consider this next time you decide to judge me.

Judge you? We have no intention of judging you, that is for God alone. But it is our duty to point out false prophets. Listen, I know that you are probably a good guy who thinks God has given you a message to spread over the world. Trust us, if its in conflict with the CCC, you cannot be a true prophet…

I am a stranger in a land that has always been foreign to me.

We cant help you with that, only you can come home to us.

I do not expect the world to understnad me, but I do expect the same persecution I’ve had since I was a child. This was Christ’s warning to me when I was a child.

Im going to be very blunt, as I feel you are possibly very deluded. What gain does Christ have by revealing things to a child who ends up confused and finds Himself fighting against every Christian in the world?

I am not here to befriend you. I am here to help you. Whether or not you choose to receive that help is up to you. Where friends are concerned, I have the only one I need and always have.

It is excellent that your relationship with Christ is strong, please if you think its real, pray for me, and I will do so for you, so that the Truth may be revealed to us both.

I think you will see that it is not me that is on a high horse here. You believe in the words of men so strongly that you judge me by the words of men.

If you consider the bible to be the words of men then what do you go by?

Perhaps you should open your eyes, because apparently all you can see is the world.

I’ll be honest with you. Last night I had a dream that i was in a plane that was imminently going to crash. Shall i tell you what I felt? First of all panic, but then relief. What did I do? I didnt pray for God to save the plane, no, I prayed for Him to have mercy on me when I reached Him on the other side. My focus instantly switched to my eternal destiny, the one I try to focus on every moment of my life. If the world was all we cared about, what good does it gain us preaching to others through a forum? A tally of posts next to our name?

The only thing apostolic about the Catholic Church is lineage at best.

???

The same Spirit that descended upon them, has descended upon every man, and has given them all different gifts. Among those are prophecy. I will say this though. My priesthood and ministry has no lineage with the apostles from a worldly perspective, but from a spiritual perspective I trust in it before I trust in the Catholic priesthood.

You seem so confident. I seem to remember St Paul telling us to abandon any prophetic visions we had if they were in conflict with the teaching of the Church. That is happening right now, abandon them.

You name one priest, cardinal, bishop, or pope who prophesied in the name of God in recent years, and I’ll rest my case

.

My local parish priest regularly has dreams of dead people asking Him to offer masses for them.

Until then my case is open and will remain open all of the days of my life. I promise you when Christ comes again, I will have saved more souls than the Catholics. That is my one boast that is of myself.

Im afraid you have fallen into the deadly sin of pride. Christ asked us to teach others through love. You seem focused on building up a number of souls to present to Christ. Dont you see how you have focused on the wrong thing? You even boast of it yourself!

If not for that last paragraph i would be unsure as to the validility of your message, but do you see how the devil has fooled you? In making you think that you are to spread a different message to Christ he has also taught you that the purpose of this life is to store up more souls than others.

It is very sad.

I will pray for you.

Christ My King, reveal your most perfect Truth to this confused soul, let your graces shine upon him and give him the strength to reject the evi onel. With your most precious blood, surround him in battle so that he may return home at last.

We make this prayer through Christ Our Lord. Amen.

If you are reading this I ask you to pray for kremisos using the prayer above. Christ said that when two people asked of his father, it would be given.

In Christ

Andre.

 

[Magicsilence]

***1JN 5:16 If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

1JN 5:18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him. 19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. 20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true–even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

---

Yes there is sin that does not lead to death. Does this make this a lesser sin? No. All wrongdoing is sin. What is the extent and result of sin? Death. Death is the full measure of sin. This is a cause and effect relationship. Sin is the cause, and death is the effect. In 1 JN 5:18 it says:

***1JN 5:18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him. ***

By this you should know that anyone who does continue to sin, is not born of God and will not have salvation. What comes from God returns to God, and what comes from below returns below. You’re right in saying that no organization including the Catholic Church is free from corruption. This is why no organization can claim to be the one true Church. The one true Church is in fact the Body of Christ. As a member of the Body of Christ you should put your trust in God, and not in the world, any organization, country, or social group.

Your complete faith and trust should be in God. There is no person no matter how great or small that you should trust or love more or even as much as God. When you have established this sort of relationship with God, have let go of everything you fear losing, and let his Spirit overwhelm you so that you might do his will, you will no longer be under the yolk of sin. He will talk to and instruct you in all of your ways. These men, are few on this planet, and it is up to them to bind people to the Spirit so that they may be bound to Heaven.

I am not playing a right or wrong argument with you here. I am asking you to let go of everything for a moment and hold on to God alone. At this moment in time, you will realize the truth in my statements, and you will see and hear the same things that I see and hear. You will not only be filled with the Holy Spirit, but you will also have the ability to discern the spirits in others. Do not be alarmed or afraid if you see or feel the dark forces around you. As long as you hold onto your faith and stray from sin, they will flee from you. If anyone has ever saught undeniable evidence in the existence of God, this is the test I offer you.

Let go of everything that you know and understand to seek God. This may take a day, it may take days, it may take weeks, it may take months, but it will happen. You will see the flaws in finite three dimensional human logic, and grasp the concepts of infinity and everything. You will no longer see the world ruled by physics, and you will no longer fear anything in life. Unify yourself with the Spirit and you will be wearing the full armor of God. When you have done this, you will have no reason to fear the dark days that are coming. Nothing can harm you if God is your shelter.

kremisos, you speak a lot of Truth, but not the full thing. It especially concerned me when you said

Do not be alarmed or afraid if you see or feel the dark forces around you.

You are dabbling with dangerous spirits who can take control at any time.

It may surprise you to know that i do have no fear. With The Lord by my side, what have i to fear?

Having a strong relationship with Christ is amazing, but it doesnt mean that we cannot have it in a Church. Recieving Christ in the Eucharist, is perfect union. I hope one day you will do so.

No institution is perfect, but the Catholic Church is the one true Church to whom God promised to guide with the Holy Spirit. If you think that the “Body of Christ” is the invisible one true church, you are very wrong. You are no different from us. You are all sinners, we are all sinners.

In Christ.

Andre.

 

[Lazerlike42]

Yes there is sin that does not lead to death. Does this make this a lesser sin? No. All wrongdoing is sin. What is the extent and result of sin? Death. Death is the full measure of sin. This is a cause and effect relationship. Sin is the cause, and death is the effect.

Paraphrasing that I would seem to get:

Yes, there is sin that does not lead to death, but all sin leads to death.

 

[kremisos]

Andre,

I will pray for you as well my brother. I do appreciate your concern for my well being, but it is truly not necessary. If you would like to know my problems with the Catholic Church and why I feel it is leading people away from the message of God, the Bible, and the Truth I will tell you.

1. God alone is to be worshipped and glorified. No mortal no matter how great or strong should ever be prayed to. It is not up to us to determine who the saints are. A saint is any man who is a child of God. God is a jealous God, (line edited by moderator) Yes, it is written that God intercedes for the saints, but we are not capable of judging who those saints are. Judgment is not reserved for us.
2. The Catholic Church believes in rituals. Rituals mean very little to God. Yes, we are to break bread in rememberance of Christ as he asked us. Many Catholics and Christians however are not taught that everyday should be a reflection of God’s will for us. How many men do you come across on the street in everyday life that are mindful of their purpose here always? Is it not our duty to remind them? Is it not also our duty to tend to the poor and the sick?
3. After many occassions after mass in a Catholic Church, I’ve heard discussions amongst those Catholics that included a lot of gossip. Rather than rebuking these Catholics, many just involved themselves in this sin. How soon people forget at their luncheons and in their conversations that we must stray from all evil.
4. The Catholic Church teaches that we are all subject to original sin. This is contrary to the teachings of Christ and the Apostles. We are free from sin and should therfore sin no more.
5. The Catholic Church teaches that confession to a priest can absolve a man from sin. If we have sinned we should confess our sins to each other and pray for each other. Only the prayers of the righteous will bring God’s forgiveness though. Only a man who lives by the Spirit of God can be righteous.

You may think that I’m deluded and you definitely have a right to your opinion. There are no dates or appointments for the arrival of Christ, however Christ did give us warnings as to when he would be coming back. He has also enlightened many people (not just myself) through the Spirit that this will be very soon.

I will pray for you Andre, that you may no longer see the world as it appears. I promise you when Satan opened our eyes in the Garden of Eden, his purpose was so that we might trust in the world. Trust in God, and you’ll find him.

 

[kremisos]

Lazerlike42:

Paraphrasing that I would seem to get:

Yes, there is sin that does not lead to death, but all sin leads to death.

It’s all about measure. Consider a car for a moment. You can abuse a car over and over again, and never know when this car will fail. Now when it does fail you, you buy another car of the same make, model and year. You abuse this car in the same way, but it fails you after a time period that is much longer than the first car. Your life is the same. You cannot know the extent of sin, regardless of what sins you’ve made will result in your death. That is between you and God. We are not all made the same, nor do we all have the same intent. Some people go on sinning thinking that if they reach a confessional booth or have the oppurtunity to confess their sins as they’re dying, that all of their sins will be forgiven. This is not true. We cannot know by what measure God judges us, but when we reach this full measure, we will die.

On the otherhand, Christ did say there were sins that were unforgivable. (Offensive passage removed by moderator)

 

[kremisos]

Regardless of all arguments posted here, I wanted to point something out. Our primary focus should not be to attend Church on Sundays and go on about our everday lives Monday through Saturday. Every minute of our life should be in reflection of God’s will for us.

We should be focusing on the New Covenant that was made to us, and developing a relationship with God through the Spirit that he gave us so that we might bind ourselves to the Body of Christ to be made whole, and work on binding other people as well.

*** 1CO 1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.”

1CO 1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? 14 I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

1CO 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”***

(continued…)

 

[kremisos]

---

1CO 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength.

1CO 1:26 Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things--and the things that are not--to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

1CO 2:1 When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on men’s wisdom, but on God’s power.

1CO 2:6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 However, as it is written:

“No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him” –

    1CO 2:10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:

1CO 2:16 “For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?”

But we have the mind of Christ.***

While I know this is a lot of reading, I think it validates a lot of the points I’ve made. If you do not believe that you have the mind of Christ, then there is a flaw in your religion. We are of one Spirit, and if we are spiritual, not only can we let go of the world and it’s teachings, but we can also know with confidence that we follow the will of God. This is why I say don’t place trust in mortal men, organizations or the world. Not even me. Trust in God and accept his Spirt, and you will see your path. Only then, will you have salvation.

 

[Lazerlike42]

1. The word pray simply means “ask.” For some reason when people hear the word pray they get the idea of worship. That’s not what it is. Any time a person prays to a saint, all they are doing is asking them to pray to God for them. One time, my friend said to me, “Shane, pray for my grandmother because she is in the hospital.” When we pray to a saint we are doing, and I don’t exaggerate one bit, EXACTLY, with NOT A SINGLE DIFFERENCE, the same thing. So that really shouldn’t bother you. We’re simply asking the saint to say a prayer for us 100% NO DIFFERENT EXACTLY the same way as you just said you’d pray for the other poster.
2. You sortof hit the nail on the head when you said “many Catholics and Christians.” Believe me, the Catholics I know are most certainly taught to do all those good things you spoke of. We happen to have very good people teaching us. I know other Catholics who aren’t taught. That’s not the fault of the religion, though. That’s the fault of the individuals who ought to be teaching things right.
3. Individual people sin. I don’t see the priests getting up and encouraging people to do this. Should the priests discourage it? Probably. But again, this is the fault of individuals, not the religion. Kremisos, I am sure that if I spent some time around you I’d see some consistent habit of yours that is bad. Does that mean that whatever beliefs you have are wrong? Of course not!
4. I think you’re talking about Romans 6:10-12, where it says, “For in that He died, He died to sin once for all; but in that He lives, He lives to God. So, you too consider yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, so that you obey its desires.” The meaning of this passage is actually very strongly dependent on the context, must more so than most Scripture passages. I don’t want to take up a lot of room explaining that because it would literally take about 10,000 words (I’ve done it before). To explain this would require to explain a TON of stuff, so the best I can do at the current time is give you a link: catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0502fea5.asp
5. Here you are referencing James 5:16. I would point out that James does NOT say that only the prayers of a righteous man can bring God’s forgiveness. If you are getting this somewhere else, point me to it. All this says is that a righteous man’s prayer is powerful. That doesn’t mean it’s the exclusive way to forgive sin. I mean, when we really get down to it, can any man really forgive sin? If you go off and kill a man, and tell me and I forgive you, does that square you with God? Doesn’t God need to forgive you? You’re suffering from a misunderstanding about why Catholics go to a confessional. This is a GREAT oppurtunity to explain it.

For one, when we look at John chapter 20 we clearly see Jesus giving the apostles the power to forgive sin OR to retain it. This is why Catholics go to a priest: God is the one that needs to forgive a person, and not just people, and Catholics teach that in confessing to the priest a person puts his sins before God too to be forgiven.

But why can’t a Catholic just go before God in prayer? Well, the simple answer is that that’s not what Jesus said. The better answer is what I think you may not be aware of and why I was excited to explain this. When a member of Christ’s body sins, he doesn’t just hurt himself, but he hurts the whole body. When I sin, I do a lot of things. I give Christians a bad name by making people see a Christian sinning. If I maybe stole money, well I hurt the folks I stole from, and if they were gonna spend that money buying a pizza, I hurt the pizza man too! My sin touches so many people in ways that I can’t even realize. Sure, if I do something like hit my friend, I hurt him and I ought to ask his forgiveness, but the sin for instance that hurt the pizza man: I would never have known that. So when a Catholic goes to a priest, he also confesses his sin to the whole body of Christ. When I sin, I hurt so many other Christians in so many ways that I don’t even realize. It would be impossible for me to find them all and ask forgiveness.

So by going to the priest, I am forgiven by Christ through him, but I am also forgiven by all those who I hurt by my sin by the priest as a representative. The priest serves as a representative of the body of Christ and forgives me on their behalf. This is VERY important, because as we know Christ told us that if we have sinned against our brother, we must go and reconcile ourselves to him. I MUST follow this command of Christ just like I must follow all his commands. But unfortunately I don’t know that that pizza man is suffering from my sin. But by the priest acting as his representative, I can be forgiven anyways.