Evidence against Hydroxychloroquine

[Zzyzx_Road]

Impugning motives - only acceptable for certified mind-readers. Are you so certified?

Don’t need to read your mind when I can read your words and consider them in the context of the various debates along with your posting history. By the same token, I wear my heart on my sleeve; this you know about me already, you don’t need to read my mind to figure that out.

I didn’t see a response from you in the thread about the setback in Remdesivir testing. But then I see that you cited the original article above in this thread. With a cursory remark and no hint about your previous touts for Remdesivir. Were you a bit invested in that one to beat out HCQ? Held a position in GILD? If you were, I really have no issue with that because my take is we need all the help we can get. While cautions such as you call for are merited, your overall sentiments are not as open minded as you as tell us they are. Again, your words.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I didn’t see a response from you in the thread about the setback in Remdesivir testing.

I don’t read every thread. But I did cite the Forbes article reporting the disappointing results on Remdesivir. Do I pass the purity test? Or do I need to declare something about disavowing the communist party as well?

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

I don’t read every thread. But I did cite the Forbes article reporting the disappointing results on Remdesivir. Do I pass the purity test? Or do I need to declare something about disavowing the communist party as well?

Leaf, no one passes the purity test. Only Jesus and His Mother did that. The rest of us are sinners, that is all there is to it. My role model is Peter who denied the Lord three times before the cock crowed, yet he was still given the opportunity to redeem himself. This isn’t about you, it’s about all of us.

As iron sharpens iron …

 

[silentwitness]

People (the president) is not giving advice, they are asking questions. It is incorrect to say he is giving advice and uncharitable.

Organisations and people made clear what the situation was precisely because the media took the presidents remarks in an uncharitable direction in order to make political mileage out of what is, again, fake news.

Experts would not have to intervene if the media didn’t play these political games and take remarks by the president in the most uncharitable direction.

Disinfectants work by disassociating germs and destroying them. This is the same as the immune systems attacking viruses. It is entirely reasonable for the president to ask the question about mimicking disinfectants inside the body to fight viruses.

Likewise sunlight can react with the human body to create vitamins which boost the immune system. Heat is also a characteristic of sunlight. When our bodies have a serious virus the body produces heat in the form of a fever. It is this heat that often can kill the virus. If the virus is too strong then sometimes the rise in heat kills us before it kills the virus. It is entirely reasonable to ask the question of what it is in sunlight that kills the Corona virus and ponder if this can be reproduced inside the body to kill the virus.

 

[dvdjs]

People (the president) is not giving advice, they are asking questions. It is incorrect to say he is giving advice and uncharitable.

People in a position of influence have a responsibility to measure their words carefully, because how their words are taken is not fully under their control. Trump does appear to be making suggesting/giving advice on research leads. It is simply improper to do that in a public forum.

Disinfectants work by disassociating germs and destroying them. This is the same as the immune systems attacking viruses. It is entirely reasonable for the president to ask the question about mimicking disinfectants inside the body to fight viruses.

The chemistry of disinfectant action on germs does have similarities a component of the innate immune response. However, it has nothing to do with the adaptive immunity involving antibodies. This chemistry and biochemistry is not unknown, is an active area of research, and its implications and opportunities for COVID-19 are not lost on the biomedical science community. It is not the least bit clear what positive addition to the scientific effort Trump’s statements make. It is also unclear what positive effect it could have on the lay community who might seeking treatment or prophylaxis. Negative effects are easy to imagine.

Likewise sunlight

Likewise sunlight.

 

[Ridgerunner]

You’re assuming your conclusion in your premise. There is no reason in your statement that supports the idea that any particular form of “climate change” (and there could be any number of scenarios, most of which seem unpredictable) will cause starvation.

In both the Roman and Medieval warming periods, increased temperatures seem to have caused an increase in the food supply, not a diminution. Contrariwise, the Little Ice Age did cause starvation and, seemingly, wars and revolutions.

I’m not saying that “proves” global warming will improve the food supply, but it’s by no means a certainty that it will decrease it.

 

[silentwitness]

 

[Ridgerunner]

I honestly hope that President Trump is re-elected in a landslide and people start realising and re-assessing such uncharitable tactics. This uncharitable hate has gone on for long enough.

While I can admire your desire to see the implacable hostility against the president cease, I don’t think there is a chance on earth of it happening. His opponents think up a new reason to despise and condemn him almost daily. The only way he could stop it would be to endorse abortion on demand and promise to hereafter appoint only pro-abortion judges. But while there would still be a few “never trumper” Repubs left who object to his manners or refusal to attack Iran, they wouldn’t amount to much of a group.

 

[Xystus]

Fact Check: No, the media did not accuse Trump of telling people to “Inject Themselves with Disinfectant”. That accusation may have been made by some left-wing extremists, but it never was a serious accusation by established media.

Coming back to this comment… Here we have CBS saying it this morning. Now the question is were you wrong about the media not doing this , thus your “fact check” being absolutely wrong, or do you consider CBS to be left-wing extremists?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Coming back to this comment… Here we have CBS saying it this morning.

CBS correctly qualified the President’s remarks as a suggestion that he partially walked back. CBS did not accuse the President of telling people to inject themselves with anything.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

The coronavirus restrictions have been in place less about six weeks and no one is starving and we have armed protesters at state capitols.

Starvation isn’t here, you are correct about that. But it isn’t that far away without a soon enough restart and the protesters can see it coming. So can I. Even if you and many others insist on minimizing our concerns. Already we have over a dozen pork and beef plants closed. If they don’t reopen quickly enough, if more of them close as well, that’s going to be a major problem as the supply chains will blow out in both directions. You can print dollars and send them to the workers and businesses, but you can’t print supply chains.

I think that is ample evidence that we would have significant loss of life if there were climate change.

Only if the change is toward global cooling. I am much more afraid of global cooling than I am of global warming. In a global cooling episode, people find that it is dang hard to grow sufficient crops to feed everyone, that just keeping warm requires considerable expenditure of energy and resources that might otherwise go into the economy, that if the cooling is bad enough, it can trigger mass migrations southward as crops fail in the northern zones.

I strongly urge the study of European history during the Maunder Minimum and the Dalton Minimum. It was extraordinarily chaotic during the former, famine was rampant during that time. These climate events have tended to happen about every two centuries and indeed the current solar cycle is at its lowest point and appears to be headed lower which is not a good sign. Even NASA admits to that much though they won’t say a word about the possible consequences. We’ll need a few more years before we know either way.

 

[Cathoholic]

LeafByNiggle . . .

That is not a CDC Youtube channel .

You are correct on this point.
I am wrong. Apologies (on this point).

 

[sallybutler]

It is not reasonable to ask on public television whether or not injecting poisons into ones blood veins is a good idea. That kind of brainstorming belongs in a non-televised meeting where people can throw out ideas from the ridiculous to the sublime

 

[Minks]

LeafByNiggle:

Fish tank guy.

fish tank guy did not take the drug Trump “cheer-leaded”. he self medicated on something else.

Or was murdered.

 

[silentwitness]

Show me where someone used the words ‘poison’, ‘blood veins’ and 'good idea with reference to treating corona.

These are obviously your string of words you are wishing to put in the presidents mouth for political reasons.

Such uncharitable attacks are getting tedious.

We are expected to enter into this fantasy world and proceed if it is actually real. No President Trump did not use those words nor suggest such an action in real life.

ok i am out. These attacks are another chapter of anti Trump fantasy.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

Why are you so confident that global warming will not cause disruptive changes to the supply of food and ability to get it to the people?

A true global warming episode will move the temperate growing zones northward, opening up more lands for farming. We had such an episode during the Medieval Warming Period, during which the Vikings were growing wheat and brewing beer in Greenland. Imagine Greenland a temperate zone! It happened, and it stayed warm there for centuries until the next cooling killed off the colony. That level of warming that we have not seen since no matter how much the AGW’ers talk. The AGW’ers hate that inconvenient Warming Period and have done their level best to massage it out of existence.

What could be disruptive this year are the shutdown economy’s effects on the food supply chains. As anyone can see for themselves, our food supply chains mostly operate on a “just in time” inventory basis. That gets disrupted long enough, it’s not hard for chaos to erupt. The cracks are already showing themselves. I just pray we can turn this around quickly enough to avoid disaster.

 

[mrad25]

And shortages of the meds for those who need it.

Do you feel this way about all drugs that are used in an off label way? I’ve been a NP for years and Drs and NPs prescribe medications in off label ways all the time. BTW the “shortage” narrative is totally inaccurate.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

Open new land for farming but close others and why does this not cause political chaos and wars? There is plenty of food in the world and you end up with people still starving when the local food supply goes into a famine.

When it comes to food and our civilization, there are two major aspects of it that have to be considered: production and distribution. Both are required to feed everyone. Both. In any civilization, distribution is as critical as production.

You are correct, there is plenty of food production capacity in the world. The issues we’ve always experienced have been at the distribution end. On rarer occasions, we have experienced disruptions at the production end and I would argue the worst episodes of these take place during global cooling periods. But they can also happen in times of war and pestilence (such as what east Africa is experiencing now).

During modern times, the distribution of food has evolved into the familiar “just in time” inventory replenishment. How often do you actually marvel at the presence of so much fresh produce, meat and chicken in your local supermarkets every single time you go shopping? Well everyone should. We’re all guilty of taking that for granted. raising my hand here Because the “just in time” distribution is not that hard to break. As we’re starting to see now.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Already we have over a dozen pork and beef plants closed.

That was not because of any stay-at-home order. That was because those plants had problems and developed outbreaks. They can restart right away if they can fix their transmission problems. Don’t blame government for that.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

Don’t blame government for that.

But government has been on record telling them they’re closed indefinitely. If the governments follow thru on that, then yes I will blame them too.

That Smithfield plant wanted to restart with a reduced staff after three days of closing for disinfection; they weren’t allowed to do so.

Those governments seem to think the closures will have no economic effect on supply chains at all. Where I argue that they are absolutely critical that they continue operating. What the companies need to be charged with is to develop distancing procedures and get sufficient PPE for their employees. And then to reopen as soon as possible.