Evidence against Hydroxychloroquine

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This is all completely speculative. There is no particular reason to believe food growing will decline anywhere if global temperatures increase, let alone that it will decrease if there is more CO2 in the atmosphere. There is, in fact, more reason to believe it would increase rather than decrease.
 
Zzyzx_Road said:
That Smithfield plant wanted to restart with a reduced staff after three days of closing for disinfection; they weren’t allowed to do so.

Those governments seem to think the closures will have no economic effect on supply chains at all.
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That plant closing won’t, most probably, because there is some redundancy in production facilities. But it’s not all that deep. Most plants run as close to maximum as possible. Take a plant out and it strains the system most of the time, but it’s manageable.

But it won’t take a lot. One temporary closing of a major beef plant in Kansas (for other reasons) recently caused the supply chain to back up in a way that hurt prices for the suppliers.

Something else is this. If, say, poultry processors in SW Missouri shut down, the growers would all go bust, and in a hurry. Even one flock is a lot of money in one facility. A poultry plant of any size will process several million pounds per week. That’s a lot of backup. If the integrator isn’t buying because its plants are shut down, millions and millions of dollars of big mortgages don’t get paid. Those facilities use a lot of grain. The supply chain for the grain will be disrupted.

I think governmental shut downs of food producers could turn out to be a much worse experience than some of the workers getting the virus a few months before they’ll probably get it anyway.
 
Thank you for your explanation for my personal motivation of hating Trump.
Obviously your point is that it renders anything I say UNWORTHY OF BELIEF.
A perfect defense of Trump, on national TV, suggesting injection of disinfectant to cure Covid-19. I am the culprit indulging mortal sin because I said it was outrageous.
 
Zzyzx_Road said:
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LeafByNiggle:
Don’t blame government for that.
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But government has been on record telling them they’re closed indefinitely.
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Indefinitely means they cannot give the plant a definite time when they can reopen. It does not mean “permanently”. You can blame the government if the plant puts adequate safeguards in place to prevent spread within the plant and the government still refuses to let them open. I do not expect that to happen.
Zzyzx_Road said:
That Smithfield plant wanted to restart with a reduced staff after three days of closing for disinfection; they weren’t allowed to do so.
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Without seeing their precise proposal, I cannot say if it was a reasonable thing to do. Have you inspected the plant and reviewed their proposal in detail like the government has?
 
sloancaprice said:
In the Roman and Medieval times, there were far fewer people in the world, so there were far fewer people to feed. Rome would do things like attack Egypt for the access to grain, so even then there were wars over food.
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That’s true. But they also didn’t have anywhere near the resources for farming that we do now. And too, at the time of Rome’s acquisition of Egypt, Rome was a city of a million people. The countryside of Italy could not, with its mountains and its farmers behind oxen with wooden plows, feed a city like that. But gold was the more likely motivator in any case.
 
Exposures would not be deliberate, unlike with “pox parties”. But while some might disagree, it does seem to me that everyone in the U.S. is going to get exposed at some point or other. Some will show symptoms, most won’t. Some with symptoms will be recognized as having Covid19. Most won’t. Some with symptoms will get quite ill. Most won’t. Some of those who get very ill will die. Most won’t.

There is merit to deferring exposure, particularly on the part of those who die. But it seems to me deferral is all we’re going to do unless someone comes up with an effective vaccine much sooner than is predicted.

How is Sweden’s “herd immunity” strategy working? I haven’t heard.

Just looked it up. Seems like it’s going to work in Sweden.

 
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I remain puzzled at all the focus on treating patients with antivirals when they are in ICU, at deaths door.

As with Tamiflu, antivirals do the most good when given early, in the infection cycle. This is also evident in the recent leaked news on remdesivir, where it failed to produce when given to patients with advanced infection.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
Evidence continues to mount against President Trump’s favorite Covid-19 treatment, Hydroxychloroquine.
Research funded by the National Institutes of Health and the University of Virginia
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Here is a rather disturbing article about the WH pushing Hydroxychloroquine. Bizarre,

www.vanityfair.com

“Really Want to Flood NY and NJ”: Internal Documents Reveal Team Trump’s Chloroquine Master Plan

Forget testing, ventilators, and PPE. Donald Trump’s big plan to beat COVID-19 involved distributing millions of doses of an unproven drug. Behind the scenes, senior administration officials pushed hard to bend the rules and back up his boasts.
www.vanityfair.com www.vanityfair.com
 
Ridgerunner said:
There is merit to deferring exposure, particularly on the part of those who die.
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You bet that is merit! And not only on the part of those who die, but on the part of those who love them. Now we have just included everyone. So there is merit on the part of everyone.
But it seems to me deferral is all we’re going to do unless someone comes up with an effective vaccine much sooner than is predicted.
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Or a treatment. Don’t be so pessimistic!
 
sloancaprice said:
Given the extent to which we are talking about possible changes in the environment,
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At this point, nobody has even stated the “possible changes”, let alone given any evidence in support of them. Are we talking about if the Sahara greens up or if the Great Plains turn to sand?
sloancaprice said:
There also were no where the number of people that there are now. Honestly, when you consider that the US will hold refugees fleeing a war in jail in good economic times, do you really believe that, in tough times, people are going to freely share. I don’t think so and, as such, climate change is a great potential threat to humankind and the Church demands that we recognize it as such.
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The Church, as Church, does nothing of the sort. A number of churchmen have considered climate change a potential threat. That’s it.

The persons being “held” by the U.S. are primarily economic migrants, let’s not make them something they’re not.
 
Maximus1 said:
Cheering is nice at a football game because it is a game.
A president speaking about a pandemic does harm cheering for cheering sake. With no mind at all about consequences of being wrong.
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Would you rather the President say that there is no hope? No effective treatment? Our doctors will just put you on a vent (if there are enough of them), and hope that you get better?

Or have the President say that there IS a treatment, still under investigation but being widely used by physicians, we will have enough vents, and we are going to be okay?

Sometimes cheering is what a leader needs to do.
 
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Boatswain2PA said:
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Maximus1:
Cheering is nice at a football game because it is a game.
A president speaking about a pandemic does harm cheering for cheering sake. With no mind at all about consequences of being wrong.
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Would you rather the President say that there is no hope? No effective treatment? Our doctors will just put you on a vent (if there are enough of them), and hope that you get better?

Or have the President say that there IS a treatment, still under investigation but being widely used by physicians, we will have enough vents, and we are going to be okay?

Sometimes cheering is what a leader needs to do.
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I think Winston Churchill during the blitz provided an excellent example of how to speak to the people during a crisis. I was a inspired combination of brutal honesty and confidence in the future.
 
And yet he had many people, including the press, who absolutely hated him and derided him for everything he said and did.
 
Minks . . .
Or was murdered.
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This MAY be a consideration here.

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Even More Questions Raised About Case of the Man Who Died From Fish Tank Cleaner​

Posted at 6:30 pm on April 24, 2020 by Nick Arama

. . . But as it turned out Wanda Lenius wasn’t a Trump supporter. Indeed, she was actually a Democratic donor who had given money to a “pro-science” resistance group.

Not to mention she had a past history of being charged with domestic abuse assault on her husband shortly after they had been married, although found not guilty. . . .

. . . Now the Free Beacon has interviewed three friends of the the husband who died, 68 year old Gary Lenius, who describe him as a very intelligent, level-headed engineer and they don’t believe he would have done something so wildly out of character as to take the fish tank cleaner knowingly. Moreover, they describe the marriage as troubled, characterized by Wanda’s “explosive anger.” . . .

. . . According to one source, “Wanda would constantly berate Gary in public.” The source claimed, “In our opinion, their marriage was seen outwardly to be as one-sided as a marriage possibly could be: Gary worshiped Wanda,” and said she “would routinely call him a ‘doofus’” and humiliate him in public. . . .

. . . . Wanda allegedly had a history of mental and physical issues as well as at least two lawsuits alleging gender and/or age harassment. In one lawsuit her psychologist alleged she had post-traumatic stress disorder and anger issues due to have experiences with her employer . . . .
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redstate.com

Even More Questions Raised About Case of the Man Who Died From Fish Tank Cleaner

redstate.com redstate.com
 
And that is the problem. People who get a lot of air time need to realize that there are people who are at least one bottle short of a six pack listening to them.

And yes, we are responsible for what comes out of our mouths.
 
Maximus1 said:
I am the culprit indulging mortal sin because I said it was outrageous.
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Being outraged at what turns out to be nothing for political advantages has been a continual and familiar pattern over the last 3 years.
 
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According to the study, which was published in the International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents, Korean researchers conducted the treatment on people who were at risk of contracting Covid-19, although their baseline polymerase chain reaction tests for the novel coronavirus were negative.

Researchers gave the subjects a daily dose of 400 milligrams of HCQ until the completion of a 14-day quarantine period. During the trial, 32 people reported one or more symptoms, including diarrhea, skin rash and gastrointestinal problems, the study showed.

At the end of 14 days of quarantine, follow-up tests on the study participants were all negative, indicating that those who received the treatment did not develop Covid-19.

However, researchers said that this does not mean the post-exposure treatment is “effective for the prevention of Covid-19,” as there was no adequate control group.
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koreajoongangdaily.joins.com

Hydroxychloroquine trial inconclusive

A clinical study on a preventive virus treatment using hydroxychloroquine, a controversial drug that has been touted as a possible cure for the novel coronavirus, was inconclusive, according to the Korean researchers. Researchers from Samsung Medi
koreajoongangdaily.joins.com
 
Theo520 said:
This is also evident in the recent leaked news on remdesivir, where it failed to produce when given to patients with advanced infection.
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I think the University of Chicago study showed remdesivir to stop the duplication of the virus. If it’s advanced enough, it won’t work as you’ve suggested. Won’t work if there is no virus either.
 
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