V
Victoria33
Guest
I would have less trust in the NIH and so on to be truthful. The evidence against Hydroxy seems very weak and many people claim to have been cured.
Evidence against Hydroxychloroquine
- Thread starter LeafByNiggle
- Start date
- Status
R
REPENT
Guest
The fish cleaner didn’t have the “hydroxy” part. Tragic what he did to him self, but it is a lesson in staying calm and not panicing.
Last edited:
D
dscath
Guest
Here ya go!
More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals.
apnews.com
N
niceatheist
Guest
Based on what evidence precisely? Has anyone determined whether they would have improved regardless of this “treatment”?
That’s how science works. It doesn’t work on anecdotal claims, but by actual well-formed studies to determine efficacy. Anything else is at best voodoo, and at worst out and out nonsense.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
It is evidence for HCQ that is weak. Always was. People will always claim things. That is not modern medicine.
I
ImQuiet
Guest
Go back to 4chan. I’m sick of seeing this meme.
Plenty of people have died too. See here, here, and heck, even Fox News acknowledges the study. Color me surprised.
Edit: There’s problems with this particular study being discussed too. It’s not peer-reviewed, for one thing, and Fox is reporting that the clinical status of the study’s subjects was not taken into consideration. However, there’s simply too many unknowns in regards to Hydroxychloroquine. That experts can agree on. I think touting it as a cure is irresponsible at best and dangerous at worst, at least until we have more data, especially when we know it already has some pretty serious side effects.
Last edited:
H
Horton
Guest
Can you cite a source for this?
D
dscath
Guest
Posted 24 minutes ago in response to Victoria…you can see it there.
V
Victoria33
Guest
He has had success with it and questions the testing.
H
Horton
Guest
None of these sources claim Hydroxychloroquine caused the deaths of people. The three sources you put up are all the same study. Hydroxychloroquine is a safe drug with few long term side effects. I’ve been taking it for several years. In the first few weeks it feels as though you have the flu but that goes away once your system adjusts to the medication. The only real long term side effect is rare but potential damage to the retinas. I have an eye exam every year by an ophthalmologist to check on my retinas. So far no damage, but he is seeing the start of cataracts (which is NOT related to HC).
A researcher can make a study say whatever the researcher wants it to say. Until there is a comprehensive study on it’s efficacy for treating Covid-19 is done there will only be speculation based on incomplete information. But to say Hydroxychloroquine itself is a dangerous drug is false.
O
OraLabora
Guest
Correlation does not equal causation. Just because someone was administered a drug and was cured, does not necessarily mean the drug was the cause of the cure. Many COVID-19 patients get better on their own. Only double-blind studies can ascertain if the treatment was effective or not.
O
OraLabora
Guest
Correlation does not equal causation. Just because someone was administered a drug and was cured, does not necessarily mean the drug was the cause of the cure. Many COVID-19 patients get better on their own. Only double-blind studies can ascertain if the treatment was effective or not.
The president’s statement was not prudent. What was prudent was what we did here in Canada: that we would accelerate studies of the drugs before recommending them.
I
ImQuiet
Guest
I haven’t made myself very clear, and I apologize for that. I’m not trying to insinuate that HC killed these people, I’m saying it evidently didn’t do much for their COVID problem, and as a result, they died. The statistics on this study do indicate that the group taking HC in addition to routine care had a higher mortality rate, but Fox is reporting that the clinical status of patients wasn’t accounted for in the study. I’ve been at work/school all day so I haven’t had too much time to see if other news outlets are reporting the same, but I don’t see why Fox would include that point if it wasn’t relevant.
Well yeah, that’s what the thread is about.
Great. Fail to see how that relates to it working as a COVID-19 cure.
That is definitely false. HC has been linked to liver and heart problems as a long-term side effect.
Granted, I wasn’t terribly clear in my initial post. I’m in agreement with you. More research is needed, and touting HC as a cure is imprudent.
Last edited:
Z
Zzyzx_Road
Guest
By the same token there is still no convincing evidence that there is no benefit to be had and HCQ needs to be taken off the list of Covid-19 treatments.
You have strongly criticized studies outside of clinical trials and this was clearly not a clinical trial either.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
I have criticized, not the studies, but the false conclusions that some here draw from them. This was not a clinical trial either, and I did not present it as such, nor did I claim anything other than “more evidence” to stack up against the “evidence” that the earlier studies supposedly produced. I am in favor of continuing clinical trials for HCQ for the time being, along with other drugs.LeafByNiggle:
By the same token there is still no convincing evidence that there is no benefit to be had and HCQ needs to be taken off the list of Covid-19 treatments.
You have strongly criticized studies outside of clinical trials and this was clearly not a clinical trial either.
Z
Zzyzx_Road
Guest
Then where’s your criticism of this study?
N
niceatheist
Guest
There’s no convincing evidence that dancing around naked with a chicken on your head won’t work either.
The fact is there is no evidence that hydroxychloroquine has any effect. A very bad study that at amounts to anecdotal claims. You could likely have replaced it with water and got the same results.
It’s junk science.
The fact is there is no evidence that hydroxychloroquine has any effect. A very bad study that at amounts to anecdotal claims. You could likely have replaced it with water and got the same results.
It’s junk science.
C
Cathoholic
Guest
You are comparing apples and oranges.
It is not a randomized double-blind study. It was a retrospective analysis.
Remember. That was the rap against the Paris Study that showed BENEFIT if I recall correctly. That and the numbers were too small.
The study also said . . . .
The other problem is these study patients were not early interventions.
(Recall from my prior posts elsewhere, Dr. Agarwal from the CDC recommended EARLY intervention using azithromycin and hydroxychloroquine.)
They waited until
the patient was to the point where they needed hospitalization.
From the study . . . .
Their recomendations based upon this study?
Discarding its use??
No!
Using it with CAUTION. Something nobody has ever disputed.
Their final analysis?
It is not a randomized double-blind study. It was a retrospective analysis.
Remember. That was the rap against the Paris Study that showed BENEFIT if I recall correctly. That and the numbers were too small.
The study also said . . . .
Well ANY time the FDA approves a drug it WAS by definition “unapproved”. If it were “approved” already, they wouldn’t be “approving” it.
The other problem is these study patients were not early interventions.
(Recall from my prior posts elsewhere, Dr. Agarwal from the CDC recommended EARLY intervention using azithromycin and hydroxychloroquine.)
They waited until
the patient was to the point where they needed hospitalization.
From the study . . . .
Bold mine.
Their recomendations based upon this study?
Discarding its use??
No!
Using it with CAUTION. Something nobody has ever disputed.
Their final analysis?
Last edited:
K
KMC
Guest
I’m trying to understand your standard for hanging the death of someone around a political figure.
If, because Trump touted hydroxychloroquine, you want to attribute the death of “fish tank guy” to Trump, will you attribute the deaths of possibly thousands of New Yorkers who rode the subway after NYC Health Commissioner Dr. Oxiris Barbot urged citizens to continue to ride the subways?
M
Maximus1
Guest
Did you read the new study on that drug?
- Status