Evidence against Hydroxychloroquine

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Maximus1 . . .
Did you read the new study on that drug?
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Do you mean the non-randomized VA retrospective write up that refused to follow Dr. Agarwal’s EARLY intervention with hydroxychloroquine AND azithromycin recomendation,
then wait around until they are sick enough to be hospitalized
and THEN use hydroxychloroquine monotherapy
on the more lymphopenic (lower amounts of germ and virus fighting cells) patients?

And when they die, implicitly blame the hydroxychloroquine? (But even then admit to proceed with caution using hydroxychloroquine AND azithromycin?)

(I cannot confirm this yet,
but I heard they waited until some of these patients were on the ventilator
before initiating their hydroxychloroquine!
Maybe we can wait until the parients are dead and are at the morgue and do a study on giving it to them then huh?).

That one?

Covfefe
 
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sloancaprice said:
Not anymore…
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At least, the Republican party doesn’t stand for aborting over half of all minority babies conceived if you are going to go that route but the Democrats support such laws.

And that low rate of unemployment is historic until someone else does better.
 
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Zzyzx_Road . . .
There are posters here who is on the warpath regarding clinical trials when it comes to pro-HCQ articles, but who categorically refuse to specifically criticize any anti-HCQ article for the exact same flaw. Hypocrisy much?
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Well stated Zzyzx_Road.
 
MikeInVA . . .
Does anyone have any idea why it has become so important to Trump haters to deny the possible efficacy of this treatment regimen? That’s what is truly odd, and sad.
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I would suggest that this political divide over this issue, has entered the realm of medical care and research too.

At least that is my opinion.
 
ProVobis . . .
It depends on the year. He had been prochoice in “every way”, then pro-life when interviewed by Chris Matthews.
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I agree that Trump was a rabid pro-abort back in his Democrat days.

What Democrat isn’t radically pro-abortion? At least in the national political realm?

If you think he is still the same, tell that to Planned Parenthood and get back to me here and "lemme know " what they have to tell you?

I think rape and incest exceptions are ghastly.
But right now, it’s the best pro-lifers can do and we have a better shot at bringing Trump to being fully pro-life
than we have getting someone else IN office.

Trump has been very good overall regarding life issues.
 
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LOL. Just take a moment, my fellow CAFers, to appreciate that a thread on a very specific topic (a particular medicine for COVID) has come to contain two conversations - one on abortion, and the other on physics.

Oh, CAF, why can’t I quit you?
 
But no matter what anybody says, it’s hard to come up with a worse evil than the killing of a million innocent children per year.
 
sloancaprice said:
Not the same photons. The photons will travel at the speed I documented in between atoms, but they will be continuously absorbed and then another photon will be emitted by atoms along the way.
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Ahhh. They didn’t tell me that part. Shame.
 
Ridgerunner said:
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ProVobis:
Gravity would pull it further back than that, I would think.
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I saw a show on TV where they were talking about how long it takes photons to go from the center of the sun to the exterior of the sun. It is an immensely long time due to gravity and all the magnetism and other forces it encounters on the way. I can’t remember the speed, and it varies depending on where the photon is in the sun, but it can take years for it to travel even a few inches through all the stuff the sun is made of. Might be wrong, but it sure impressed me. As soon as it escapes the sun’s surface, then it goes at the speed of light with which we are otherwise familiar.
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Seems like gravity also bends light waves as well. That’s why you’re able to see stars “behind” the sun during an eclipse. Or a distant ship on an ocean, for that matter.
 
Married to an unproven drug in a crisis is perilous. Time for Trump and his team to just let trials go forward systematically.
 
ProVobis said:
If you don’t mind the awful nausea. Do they still use it in fighting colds?
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Yes, I understand there is evidence it does help, when applied early in the cycle.

I have started taking D and Zinc with the onset of this pandemic. I may just have expensive pee, but I feel better knowing I’m trying to boost my immune system.
 
Vit. D3, yes. Zinc, I’m not so sure of; it doesn’t transport into cells very well on its own. Like you inferred, at normal supplemental doses, it isn’t harmful.
 
Theo does bring up a salient point here:

How come the mainstream media spends so much time:
  • scaring the manure out of us
  • telling we can’t be with each other
  • telling us we can’t go to Mass (some people say Satan rejoices at the involuntary separation of people from the Eucharist, how’s that for a warm thought?)
  • telling families they have to separate from one another
  • blowing up our collective blood pressure (so we can get prescribed with statins, hey that’s a win for them!)
  • telling us hospitals are jammed to the hilt when they aren’t in many parts of the country
And so little time telling us how we might boost our immune systems to be more resistant to this and other ailments.

You know … simple things like get enough sleep, get enough sun or take D3, get some exercise, stop eating junk, etc. …

What’s up with that?
 
sloancaprice . . .
The death toll from abortion is more immediate, but the long-term death toll from unchecked climate change is larger and threatens the very future of humanity.
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You are conflating the willful direct murder of an innocent human,
with an alleged human-induced side effect that MAY or MAY NOT occur.

Not comparable.
 
sloancaprice said:
I had a hard time with that idea myself, since we are typically taught that light is a wave and the explanations for why light travels slower through material when using the light as a wave model are fundamentally different
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permittivity
 
I hear you. I’ve upped my D3 to 5000 IU, more for the heart to assimilate the calcium, but good to know the sunshine vitamin has multiple benefits.
 
In order to understand WHY the VA study is virtually irrelevant, we need to pay attention to the mechanism of help that hydroxychloroquine gives to the patient.

Let’s listen to the CDC’s Dr Agarwal explain one of the mechanisms of action as to WHY hydroxychloroquine is thought to be beneficial against COVID19 (the Wuhan Corona Virus or Novel Corona Virus or the Chinese Corona Virus).

Here is Dr. Agarwal explaining WHY EARLY intervention with hydroxychloroquine is needed in TREATMENT (not prevention).

(Because the HCQ prevents viral entering into the cell structure. AFTER the virus has entered the cell, this protection obviously cannot take place!)


Hydroxychloroquine prevents viral binding to cells and subsequently blocks the virions from entering the cells.

He also said hydroxychloroquine increases the pH of the cell (I’m pretty sure he meant increases the acidity of the cell which would DECREASE the cell pH).

That means the longer you wait to treat the patient, the MORE the virus can enter into MORE CELLS and do MORE DAMAGE.

So late treatment would not be particularly beneficial at least according to the common sense associated with Dr. Agarwal’s explanation (there is one exception to this, and that would be in someone who had a “cytokine storm”. Most patients apparently do not have that but for those that do, it is devastating).

So this is the reason WHY Dr. Agarwal recomends EARLY intervention.

This was a non-randomized VA retrospective analysis.
Not a randomized double-blinded prospective study.

So they did not go into this with the idea of applying the physiology here.

They just took a look back at the patients who happened to have been managed differently by the physicians and divided them into different groups and summarized the results.

That’s all.

Remember. The intervention was so late . . . ALL the cohorts in this study reached the point of sickness where they needed hospitalization!

Too late (with a few exceptions - i.e. cytokine storm which I won’t get into here).

1/2 . . .
 
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