Evidence against Hydroxychloroquine

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The claim that touting HC is a cure for COVID is irresponsible?
No the claim that HC is a dangerous medication with serious risks. But nice try.

It is obvious you have a need to have the last word, so I will let you have it. I’ve finished my end of this conversation but you may go on as long as you need.
 
But they do know one thing quite well. His actions are prolife, and for that he cannot be forgiven.
I’m Canadian so I can’t vote for Trump, but I’m definitely pro-life and anti-Trump. And there’s no way I’d vote for him if I could vote in the US.

I also am not so sure Trump is pro-life either. Pro-birth perhaps, but there’s more to being pro-life than being pro-birth.
 
Yes. American Democrats say those things, and have for years while supporting abortion promoting candidates. Perhaps it makes them feel better about what they’re doing. And yet, the only president who has ever addressed the March for Life is Trump. He reintstated the Mexico City Policy, allowed states to defund Planned Parenthood, appointed two prolife justices and many lower court judges, let religious organizations including the Little Sisters of the Poor off the Obama mandate that forced them to provide abortifacients or face financial ruin.

Prolife enough for me until the perfect prolife candidate comes along. Perfection is hard to come by in today’s world.
 
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Does anyone have any idea why it has become so important ot Trump supporters to try to breathe some life into this dead-horse therapy? Odd.
Does anyone have any idea why it has become so important to Trump haters to deny the possible efficacy of this treatment regimen? That’s what is truly odd, and sad.
Proper clinical studies take months to years to conduct - not weeks.

The doctors are using these drugs off-label because they won’t do any harm and have been anecdotally found to be useful.
 
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Quite an unimpressive history in relation to the impressive puffery.
This is the issue.
Just like attempting to recast two of his doctors opinions in terms of the reappearance of the virus in the fall.( The doctors are sticking to their guns thank God, but how long can they last doing that.
Why is it tolerable to anyone?
 
Nothing that has been cited by the anti-HCQ posters says “clinical trial”. Which just so happens to be their standard criticism of pro-HCQ articles.

What’s good for one is not good for the other?

There are posters here who is on the warpath regarding clinical trials when it comes to pro-HCQ articles, but who categorically refuse to specifically criticize any anti-HCQ article for the exact same flaw. Hypocrisy much?

Do tell: what’s wrong with holding the anti-HCQ articles to the same standard that pro-HCQ articles are held to?

Or is it about telling us that doctors are too stupid to be allowed to read the available literature for HCQ and make their own decisions under the FDA off-label guidelines? Some posters have essentially implied that.

Or is it about carrying water for Big Pharma and Big Medicine who are allergic to cheap treatments from which they can’t make any money? I have posted regarding Big Medicine and Big Pharma’s undue influence on Congress in the writing of the ACA; not too many posters have been willing to admit there might be something there. More recently I posted about those same companies touted as partners in the CDC Foundation that acts as adjunct to the CDC itself. But some people think there is nothing to see there.

You decide. I suggest you follow the money with an open mind. Remember that the ACA was passed with Big Medicine help under the Obama Administration and has been continued with Republican collusion. Follow the money.
 
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That’s what happens when a president tries to play “doctor” instead of letting the scientists do their work first.
the president is not playing doctor and only shared information he got from the scientists.
He did much more than “share”. He promoted! Big time. Repeatedly. It was yet another attempt to cast himself as the “one who knows” what those stupid Democrats do not know, in all their “sky is falling” hysteria. He may not have said those exact words, but his meaning was clear.
And because the president promoted it, people on Fox News promoted it: According to an article in today’s Washington Post:
At the height of Fox News’s coverage of a would-be treatment for the novel coronavirus, the network’s medical correspondent, Marc Siegel, offered a remarkable testimonial during Tucker Carlson’s show.

Siegel said his 96-year-old father, suffering from symptoms of the virus and fearing he would die, made a full recovery thanks to the drug, hydroxychloroquine, and a course of antibiotics. “He got up the next day and was fine,” Siegel told an astonished Carlson.

Siegel’s miraculous-recovery story was part of a near-campaign for hydroxychloroquine by Fox News and its sister network, Fox Business.

Echoing President Trump’s description of the drug as a “game changer,” Carlson, Laura Ingraham, Sean Hannity, Lou Dobbs and “Fox and Friends” hosts spoke of its potential benefits in dozens of segments from mid-March to mid-April. They also criticized those in the media and the medical establishment who raised concerns, turning a debate among researchers and scientists into another front in the culture wars.

But in the past week or so, Trump has all but stopped talking about hydroxychloroquine. And so have Fox News’s hosts.

The relative silence follows disappointing, even alarming, new research about hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for covid-19, the disease caused by the virus. A study released this week on 368 male Veterans Affairs patients with the disease showed that the death rate among those given the drug, both in combination with another drug and alone, was higher than for those who were not. Researchers also said its use made no difference in the need for ventilators.
 
The designation of abortion as the preeminent question in Catholic social teaching at this time in the United States will inevitably be hijacked by partisan forces
I think the bishops’ conference has already done that.
Does anyone have any idea why it has become so important to Trump haters to deny the possible efficacy of this treatment regimen?
Because it sounds better than “I’m pro abortion and Trump isn’t”.
 
A study released this week on 368 male Veterans Affairs patients with the disease showed that the death rate among those given the drug, both in combination with another drug and alone, was higher than for those who were not.
the same study says this(bolding is mine)
However, hydroxychloroquine, with or without azithromycin, was more likely to be prescribed to patients with more severe disease, as assessed by baseline ventilatory status and metabolic and hematologic parameters. Thus, as expected, increased mortality was observed in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine, both with and without azithromycin.
You people are desperately trying to connect Trump with peoples deaths. It is SICK.
 
We could use another Salk.
Will the medical establishment allow such a person to come to the fore? Or if they do, will the medical establishment allow that treatment to be reasonably priced? Check out the Gilead and Sovaldi story some years back for insight into this.

What is little remarked is the degree to which Dr. Salk was hated by the perveyors of polio treatment businesses for ripping the floor out from under them. Think iron lungs, etc.

What if one day someone figured out a reasonably priced treatment that allowed diabetics to no longer need dialysis. Does anyone have any idea what a big business diabetic treatment is?

Follow the money.
 
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The claim that touting HC is a cure for COVID is irresponsible? We can’t definitively reject or deny it at this point.
I blame the incompetent media, yet again. I haven’t seen anyone say HCQ by itself is a miracle treatment, it’s to be combined with Zinc and the antibiotic, with Zinc being the hero. But the media puts all their focus on HCQ.
And FOX News may be the biggest offender in this area with their pro HCQ coverage.
HCQ is a zinc ionophore which enters cells via the ACE2 receptor. This can be easily verified online. It can also be verified that zinc interferes with viral replication through binding to the RNA-dependent RNA polymerase. Interestingly, the coronavirus also enters cells via the ACE2 receptor. If the viral load is light, HCQ may be effective in slowing the virus’ replication.
If the viral load is heavy, then it seems that zinc supplementation is essential. HCQ targets zinc to the cells most likely to be infected by coronavirus.
 
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I’m Canadian so I can’t vote for Trump, but I’m definitely pro-life and anti-Trump. And there’s no way I’d vote for him if I could vote in the US.

I also am not so sure Trump is pro-life either. Pro-birth perhaps, but there’s more to being pro-life than being pro-birth.
Well, blacks and Hispanics have had their lowest unemployment rate ever under Trump, now, the whole world has economic turbulence.

Canada has legalized euthanasia and is a big promoter on abortion in foreign aid. It’s a non-issue there, it is in law and would be hard to ever overturn so I believe your comments should be seen in context. You basically can’t do anything about Canadian law. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut for the US.

God bless President Trump for suggesting this drug combo, it is apparently helping many people recover, possibly even saving their lives.

Side effects, well, I’m told if one drinks enough water it can kill them.
 
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Does anyone have any idea why it has become so important to Trump haters to deny the possible efficacy of this treatment regimen?
I am not really sure whom you label as “Trump haters”.

The critical questions are: is this, or any given drug for that matter, efficacious; how does one go about proving efficacy; and what given knowledge of risks and benefits, should patients be advised about the using drug; and who should be doing the advising.
 
Gravity would pull it further back than that, I would think.
I saw a show on TV where they were talking about how long it takes photons to go from the center of the sun to the exterior of the sun. It is an immensely long time due to gravity and all the magnetism and other forces it encounters on the way. I can’t remember the speed, and it varies depending on where the photon is in the sun, but it can take years for it to travel even a few inches through all the stuff the sun is made of. Might be wrong, but it sure impressed me. As soon as it escapes the sun’s surface, then it goes at the speed of light with which we are otherwise familiar.
 
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