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grannymh
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A bit judgmental – since the human person has to ability and the curiosity to *continually search *for truth.
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inocente
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Are you suggesting reincarnation or parallel universes?
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grannymh
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Just a brief note: I think this is a very good answer to the question “You desire to be blissfully happy? Why?” If you wish, I would like to discuss my reasons.Because I have this one life, so I try and make every moment matter, and derive as much happiness as I can from it.
I also like others to be happy, so I’m very actively involved in local politics and charity/voluntary works through which I try and do my little bit.
I like to think for the time I was here, not just me and my family, but others, including animals and gthe environment we all have to share, also benefited from the things I did and the person I am.
Happiness is wonderful. I love to spread it where ever I can
Sarah x
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buffalo
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I present:I don’t have any evidence to the contrary.
Depends on what level we’re talking about. On a national and global level I have many desires for peace and harmony, sustainable environmental practices, food production and management and animal husbandry that would ensure no one goes hungry, political systems that give priority to the poor, that probably will never be satisfied.
On a personal level, no, not really, I pretty much can’t complain.
Sarah x
The Argument From Desire
*]Every natural, innate desire in us corresponds to some real object that can satisfy that desire.
*] But there exists in us a desire which nothing in time, nothing on earth, no creature can satisfy.
*]Therefore there must exist something more than time, earth and creatures, which can satisfy this desire.
*]This something is what people call “God” and “life with God forever.”
The first premise implies a distinction of desires into two kinds: innate and externally conditioned, or natural and artificial. We naturally desire things like food, drink, sex, sleep, knowledge, friendship and beauty; and we naturally shun things like starvation, loneliness, ignorance and ugliness. We also desire (but not innately or naturally) things like sports cars, political office, flying through the air like Superman, the land of Oz and a Red Sox world championship.
Now there are differences between these two kinds of desires. We do not, for example, for the most part, recognize corresponding states of deprivation for the second, the artificial, desires, as we do for the first. There is no word like “Ozlessness” parallel to “sleeplessness.” But more importantly, the natural desires come from within, from our nature, while the artificial ones come from without, from society, advertising or fiction. This second difference is the reason for a third difference: the natural desires are found in all of us, but the artificial ones vary from person to person.
more…
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atheistgirl
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MindOverMatter2
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What truth?
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inocente
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What an extraordinarily desperate piece of irrationality. “I am perfectly happy now.” requires “something more like exorcism than refutation.”
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atheistgirl
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Very Interesting and I read it through. But I found disagreement with the very opening points, namely number 2:
‘‘But there exists in us a desire which nothing in time, nothing on earth, no creature can satisfy.’’
I must be missing something then, because I do not and never have felt this.
The article mentions in some part that we have to ask the question: Is that all there is - or words to that effect.
For me, yes. But that’s not in a limited sense. I have never recovered from the wonderment in lookin into my first child’s eyes and seeing all of the universe contained in them, I look at the night sky and it takes my breath away, I shower under a waterfall and quite literally lose my breath and gain new life at the same time - that something so simple as cold running water can do this;
I unload the hay from the truck and can feel the exictement the horses feel and they thunder over to me, I get a call from a satisfied customer, or one of the temps we had, who presented us with a great idea to save money, had their college fees paid by way of thanks and that smile they gave I have never forgotten … it is simply never ending the joy of life here and there is so much here, I honestly dont think I could experience one billionth of it if I lived to be a million years old … so honestly, no, I have never felt that ‘‘desire’’ for something other worldly, this world is so magnificant and majestic as it is.
Sarah x
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buffalo
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And the beatific vision will be magnitudes greater than anything one can experience here on earth.Very Interesting and I read it through. But I found disagreement with the very opening points, namely number 2:
‘‘But there exists in us a desire which nothing in time, nothing on earth, no creature can satisfy.’’
I must be missing something then, because I do not and never have felt this.
The article mentions in some part that we have to ask the question: Is that all there is - or words to that effect.
For me, yes. But that’s not in a limited sense. I have never recovered from the wonderment in lookin into my first child’s eyes and seeing all of the universe contained in them, I look at the night sky and it takes my breath away, I shower under a waterfall and quite literally lose my breath and gain new life at the same time - that something so simple as cold running water can do this;
I unload the hay from the truck and can feel the exictement the horses feel and they thunder over to me, I get a call from a satisfied customer, or one of the temps we had, who presented us with a great idea to save money, had their college fees paid by way of thanks and that smile they gave I have never forgotten … it is simply never ending the joy of life here and there is so much here, I honestly dont think I could experience one billionth of it if I lived to be a million years old … so honestly, no, I have never felt that ‘‘desire’’ for something other worldly, this world is so magnificant and majestic as it is.
Sarah x
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atheistgirl
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I did think that part was a bit OTT. According to the author of the article, if you say you are actually perfectly happy, thank you very much, then you’re an idiot or a liar, suffering from ‘‘subhuman vegetation pop psychology’’.What an extraordinarily desperate piece of irrationality. “I am perfectly happy now.” requires “something more like exorcism than refutation.”
Dear oh dear oh dear.
I guess it’s best I don’t invite Mr. Kreeft to my happy little ranch then.
He would absolutely hate to have dinner with us and my happy little tribe
Sarah x
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tonyrey
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Do you think there is anything grander or more meaningful than His love?
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grannymh
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The goal of science is to seek truth.
The goal of Catholicism is to preach truth.
God is the truth of science since He is the Creator of the material world.
God is the truth of Catholicism since Jesus Christ, True God and True Man, founded the Catholic Church and remains within it as He is truly present in the Holy Eucharist.
God is one and thus there is only one truth.
In order for the truth of science to be in accord with the truth of Catholicism, two conditions must occur simultaneously. 1. Science must be conducted properly and 2. Catholic doctrine must be properly understood.
When these two conditions are completely and entirely met, then truth cannot contradict truth.
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tonyrey
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When things are going well for us this life seems like paradise but when they go seriously wrong it is like paradise lost. The problem we all face sooner or later is how to regain it…Very Interesting and I read it through. But I found disagreement with the very opening points, namely number 2:
‘‘But there exists in us a desire which nothing in time, nothing on earth, no creature can satisfy.’’
I must be missing something then, because I do not and never have felt this.
The article mentions in some part that we have to ask the question: Is that all there is - or words to that effect.
For me, yes. But that’s not in a limited sense. I have never recovered from the wonderment in lookin into my first child’s eyes and seeing all of the universe contained in them, I look at the night sky and it takes my breath away, I shower under a waterfall and quite literally lose my breath and gain new life at the same time - that something so simple as cold running water can do this;
I unload the hay from the truck and can feel the exictement the horses feel and they thunder over to me, I get a call from a satisfied customer, or one of the temps we had, who presented us with a great idea to save money, had their college fees paid by way of thanks and that smile they gave I have never forgotten … it is simply never ending the joy of life here and there is so much here, I honestly dont think I could experience one billionth of it if I lived to be a million years old … so honestly, no, I have never felt that ‘‘desire’’ for something other worldly, this world is so magnificant and majestic as it is.
Sarah x
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tonyrey
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grannymh
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grannymh
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Regarding post 324.By all means
Sarah x
This thread is moving too fast for me. Commitments beckon. I will respond late today.
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inocente
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See, that’s the problem: if you say God created 170 billion galaxies apart from the Milky Way because there’s nothing grander or more meaningful than His love, I can immediately say that 183.194 billion would be grander still.
This is a generic problem for design arguments – by looking in the wrong place they are always in clear and present danger of diminishing “the supreme Being to the rank of a scientific hypothesis.” (post #310)
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atheistgirl
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It’s not a straight line though - it’s more of a mountainous topography - things are never all good, or all bad … there’s a daily mix of ups and downs, sprinkled with tremendous highs and dreadful lows.
I’ve just heard a relative of mine is having a biopsy on some growths in his stomach. Of course, what everyone is scared of is that it will be cancerous so that has come as a real blow as he lives a very healthy lifestyle and is still a relatively young man.
I’ve also just won a large contract that will provide job security for 12 people for the next 5 years at least.
Both sets of news came within 60 minutes of each other.
It’s all part of life and living. I’m worried sick for my relative while feeling elated at being able to provide security for those in the division for whom I won the contact, not to mention our own long term security.
Life, like nature, is never black and white. It’s a rainbow straddling day and night, light and dark. But if the worst is confirmed for my relative, I know he will keep looking at the rainbow. That’s the kind of person he is.
Sarah x
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tonyrey
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tonyrey
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It's not a straight line though - it's more of a mountainous topography - things are never all good, or all bad ... there's a daily mix of ups and downs, sprinkled with tremendous highs and dreadful lows.I’ve also just won a large contract that will provide job security for 12 people for the next 5 years at least.
Both sets of news came within 60 minutes of each other.
It’s all part of life and living. I’m worried sick for my relative while feeling elated at being able to provide security for those in the division for whom I won the contact, not to mention our own long term security.
Life, like nature, is never black and white. It’s a rainbow straddling day and night, light and dark. But if the worst is confirmed for my relative, I know he will keep looking at the rainbow. That’s the kind of person he is.
Sarah x
Does he believe in God?From the practical point of view the materialist has no one to thank in good times and nothing to look forward to in bad times. Life inevitably seems absurd and meaningless even if it isn’t! Death is not a blessing but a curse because it separates those who love each other - not just for a few years but for all eternity.
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