EVOLUTION: A Catholic Solution?

[edwest2]

Ed, what does this sad litany of poisons have to do with evolution?

The evolutionism that tells men that their genetic material raised their consciousness so they could experience some vague god concept is false. The evolutionism that says you are only an animal is false. And the scientism that excludes God is harmful.

Value neutral science is the perfect companion of those who want a value neutral culture.

Peace,
Ed

 

[reggieM]

To Namesake,

Guilt, properly understood, is not an overreaction but a recognition that we have violated God’s law. In order to live holy, we need to turn away, repent, and ask God for forgiveness.

True. Guilt is similar to what we would call “shame” that a person feels when doing something wrong. When we see a blatant evil we call it done in a “shameless” manner – meaning, that person has deadened the voice of his conscience so there is no shame in doing evil. Guilt is merely a guide to knowing what is wrong and how to repent and repair the damage of sin.
It it not to be exaggerated or obsessed over - but also not to be dismissed.

Another point: value neutral science is the perfect companion to those who want a value neutral culture.

One side feeds off the other and I agree that it spreads poison through our society.

 

[reggieM]

The issue is what philosophical target is society aiming at.

Correct. Our present-day scientific culture has established a philosophical framework that many people have surrendered themselves to.

 

[buffalo]

OK, let me rephrase that. You claim that if we outlawed evolution, then eventually we would see the things that St.A. listed be diminished. You are also saying that the reason for that is that evolution keeps us from seeking absolute truth. Am I right about that? If so, am I right in understanding that you reject the concept that there is ANY truth to evolution?

Also, wasn’t absolute truth at least part of what Adam and Eve were looking for when they decided to ignore God’s warnings not to eat of the Tree of Knowledge?

Peace

Tim

What I am saying is that anything that points us away from God is a problem. Searching in science actually is a pursuit of the truth and to be commended. Again, the issue is when it crosses over into philosophy. If the philosophies are pointing in different directions they are opposed with the resulting tensions. The philosophy that will stand the test of time has to be the one pointing to God.

 

[buffalo]

As were people in the days of Ashurbanipal, Genghis Khan, Pontius Pilate, Alaric, Attila the Hun, Torquemada, Alexander VI, Henry VIII…

When do you consider the high point of Christendom?

 

[buffalo]

Too many Catholics, over the years, have gradually lost their sensitivity to sin. And too many are passing it on to their children.

Peace,
Ed

Hence the reason for the flood. It was the same way. It became inherited.

 

[grannymh]

Is “sensitivity to sin” the same as guilt?

Is “sensitivity to sin” the same as guilt? – good question.
No. Guilt is the result or culpability or liability of deliberate sin. Sensitivity has a number of meanings. I’ll let the other posters deal with that.

 

[Namesake]

To Namesake,

Guilt, properly understood, is not an overreaction but a recognition that we have violated God’s law. In order to live holy, we need to turn away, repent, and ask God for forgiveness.

So your answer is that it is good for humans to feel guilty?

 

[Orogeny]

What I am saying is that anything that points us away from God is a problem. Searching in science actually is a pursuit of the truth and to be commended. Again, the issue is when it crosses over into philosophy. If the philosophies are pointing in different directions they are opposed with the resulting tensions. The philosophy that will stand the test of time has to be the one pointing to God.

So because some people have decided to use evolution as a philosophical argument against religion, evolution should be banned? Does that keep it from being true?

Peace

Tim

 

[davidv]

So your answer is that it is good for humans to feel guilty?

Absolutely!

 

[edwest2]

As Catholics, we know that even though there are those that do not follow the law they have it written on their hearts. We all have a conscience. It can be deadened by making wrong choices. This can and will hurt ourselves and others. Guilt and shame, properly understood, allow for a relationship with God and our neighbor that is good and true. It is also a fruitful thing since it seeks fairness and peace.

Peace,
Ed

 

[buffalo]

So your answer is that it is good for humans to feel guilty?

I myself have no problem with guilt.

 

[buffalo]

So because some people have decided to use evolution as a philosophical argument against religion, evolution should be banned? Does that keep it from being true?

Peace

Tim

If through the use of clever arguments the devil takes hold we have to eliminate the devil.

Shouldn’t we or should we just let the devil run rampant?

Truth can be used for evil ends. Some wise Catholic has said the devil tells you 99% truth to get 1% error in.

I am simply saying we should be on guard. And when we see the negative effects of something we have to look harder to spot the complete truth. This has been my position from right along.

 

[Namesake]

As Catholics, we know that even though there are those that do not follow the law they have it written on their hearts. We all have a conscience. It can be deadened by making wrong choices. This can and will hurt ourselves and others. Guilt and shame, properly understood, allow for a relationship with God and our neighbor that is good and true. It is also a fruitful thing since it seeks fairness and peace.

And I suppose that you feel like humans just aren’t worthy of much of anything, right?

How does that comport with a human centered creation? I mean, if God regards us humans as the ultimate creature of His creation then why are we so unworthy? Wouldn’t you think that a really talented God would create a being more worthy?

 

[Orogeny]

If through the use of clever arguments the devil takes hold we have to eliminate the devil.

Shouldn’t we or should we just let the devil run rampant?

We don’t have control over that. We have to use our faith to keep the devil from winning us over. You can’t ban him out of existence or we would have already done so.

Truth can be used for evil ends. Some wise Catholic has said the devil tells you 99% truth to get 1% error in.

Should we ban the truth then?

I am simply saying we should be on guard. And when we see the negative effects of something we have to look harder to spot the complete truth. This has been my position from right along.

I know. You and I know each other well enough that that doesn’t need to be said. But I would say being on guard and banning evolution are not the same things.

Peace

Tim

 

[grannymh]

Originally Posted by edwest2 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
To Namesake,
Guilt, properly understood, is not an overreaction but a recognition that we have violated God’s law. In order to live holy, we need to turn away, repent, and ask God for forgiveness.

So your answer is that it is good for humans to feel guilty?

Yes, it is good for us to feel guilty after we have committed a deliberate wrong. Feeling guilt or shame confirms our culpability or liability of deliberate sin. Guilt helps us to repent, ask God, and others as necessary, for forgiveness and to make amends.

A sad thing happens when we keep repeating the same sin over and over, without seeking forgiveness and without resolving to do our best to avoid the sin. We stop feeling guilty. In other words, our feelings have become hardened and we are no longer sensitive to feelings of guilt.

Blessings,
granny

All human life is worthy of profound respect.

 

[buffalo]

We don’t have control over that. We have to use our faith to keep the devil from winning us over. You can’t ban him out of existence or we would have already done so.Should we ban the truth then? I know. You and I know each other well enough that that doesn’t need to be said. But I would say being on guard and banning evolution are not the same things.

Peace

Tim

Nope - we try to pick out the error, but it is not always so easy as we can see.

 

[reggieM]

And I suppose that you feel like humans just aren’t worthy of much of anything, right?

How does that comport with a human centered creation? I mean, if God regards us humans as the ultimate creature of His creation then why are we so unworthy? Wouldn’t you think that a really talented God would create a being more worthy?

In Catholic teaching, everything God created is good - including human beings.

When we say that it is good for people to feel guilty, that means only when guilt is directed at the right target, namely something that is really a sin.

We also have a gift that frees us from guilt – and that is sacramental absolution.

As for being unworthy, that is due to our sin and rebellion and imperfection. We can overcome that by striving against egoism. Christ teaches us “be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect” – so we’re called to live a sanctified life.

But we also fall short of the goal. Additionally, no one is truly worthy of the gifts of God. They are so great. We have the gift of possessing God within our own soul – the infinite creator can be united with us mere humans. That is pretty amazing.

Additionally, eternal life means never, never, never ending. That is paradise with God – a tremendous gift. God came down from heaven to win our free will choice of Him – an amazing gift.

So, we’re not worthy of such things. We have a lot of weakness, lazyness, lack of care, blindness, selfishness, inconsiderate behavior, neglect of good things, lack of appreciation, not wanting to pray and thank and worship God enough … many of these “little things” affect even the best believers.

So, we do have guilt but it is mixed with hope and joy and freedom. We have to keep working on getting better.

Without guilt we would think that we are perfectly good in all we do. But that is simply not the truth. Humility shows us who we really are and how far we have to travel to be true Saints of God.

 

[reggieM]

So because some people have decided to use evolution as a philosophical argument against religion, evolution should be banned? Does that keep it from being true?

Peace

Tim

I think the false philosophical argument should be banned.

As I see it, that argument is the foundation of mainstream evolutionary science today.

 

[buffalo]

I think the false philosophical argument should be banned.

As I see it, that argument is the foundation of mainstream evolutionary science today.

I don’t think yo can ban it. You really cannot ban thinking. What you have to do is educate so that people can see the forest from the trees.