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FiveLinden
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Then it shows that the common designer created a world that looked at behaved in every way exactly as if evolution was indeed the explanation for life’s diversity - you may be motivated to find evidence for a creator who would do such a thing but it does seem a vanishingly unlikely possibility. No more likely in fact, than that the same creator made the world and everything in it just like it is, including what appear to be our memories, five minutes ago. This sort of non-testable hypothesis cannot be rationally discussed.
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buffalo
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Yes. It had to be that way in the beginning.
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buffalo
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The best explanation:
IDvolution - God “breathed” the super language of DNA into the “kinds” in the creative act.
This accounts for the diversity of life we see. The core makeup shared by all living things have the necessary complex information built in that facilitates rapid and responsive adaptation of features and variation while being able to preserve the “kind” that they began as. Life has been created with the creativity built in ready to respond to triggering events.
Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on Earth have the same core, it is virtually certain that living organisms have been thought of AT ONCE by the One and the same Creator endowed with the super language we know as DNA that switched on the formation of the various kinds, the cattle, the swimming creatures, the flying creatures, etc… in a pristine harmonious state and superb adaptability and responsiveness to their environment for the purpose of populating the earth that became subject to the ravages of corruption by the sin of one man (deleterious mutations).
IDvolution considers the latest science and is consistent with the continuous teaching of the Church.
IDvolution - God “breathed” the super language of DNA into the “kinds” in the creative act.
This accounts for the diversity of life we see. The core makeup shared by all living things have the necessary complex information built in that facilitates rapid and responsive adaptation of features and variation while being able to preserve the “kind” that they began as. Life has been created with the creativity built in ready to respond to triggering events.
Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on Earth have the same core, it is virtually certain that living organisms have been thought of AT ONCE by the One and the same Creator endowed with the super language we know as DNA that switched on the formation of the various kinds, the cattle, the swimming creatures, the flying creatures, etc… in a pristine harmonious state and superb adaptability and responsiveness to their environment for the purpose of populating the earth that became subject to the ravages of corruption by the sin of one man (deleterious mutations).
IDvolution considers the latest science and is consistent with the continuous teaching of the Church.
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Noose001
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We have realities that require evidence and we have those that require understanding but are indisputable and they are many. So if science requires evidence, it loses.
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rossum
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First note that the Bible can abbreviate lists. Matthew 1:1 is a good example: “The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.” There are a lot of people omitted between Abraham and David as well as between David and Jesus.
Genesis describes life on earth arising from non-living chemicals: water and earth/dust: “Let the waters bring forth…” and “Let the earth bring forth…”
So we have dust → animals → primates. God can easily select a single pair of primates and add souls to them. That gives dust → animals → primates → humans. Now omit the middle steps, as Matthew does: dust → humans.
Science has established Mitochondrial Eve as an ancestor of all humans, and Y-chromosome Adam as an ancestor of all males, though the two did not meet. The original souled pair of humans could have been among the ancestors of either M-Eve or Y-Adam, and so are ancestral to all living humans.
Obviously not a literal interpretation of Genesis, but the Catholic Church does not mandate a literal interpretation. Non-literal interpretations are allowed.
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rossum
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You have no evidence to support you statement:
so instead you claim that evidence is not required. Obvious dodge is obvious. Speciation happens. There is a lot of evidence of speciation happening. Your claim that it does not happen is very obviously incorrect.
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Noose001
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Is darkness a reality and what evidence is there for darkness?
That’s not what i meant and no, speciation doesn’t happen, no evidence to support this claim.
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buffalo
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Eve and Noah…
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rossum
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Thank you for confirming that Eve had souled human ancestors.
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rossum
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OK it is not what you meant, and then you confirm that what you meant was that speciation does not happen (your sources are lying to you on this) and that there is no evidence for speciation (again your sources are lying to you.
You claim that was not what you meant, and then you repeat exactly the same incorrect statements. Are you deliberately trying to make yourself look bad here? If so, then you are doing a very good job of it.
- Speciation happens.
- Science has evidence that speciation happens.
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Noose001
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What i meant; not every reality requires evidence, some (insert God + His undertakings here) just require understanding.
Any reality for which not sufficient evidence is provided (insert speciation/evolution + abiogenesis here) crumbles under its own weight of falsehood.
To prove what i just said, i asked you a simple question; What is your evidence that darkness is real? i can’t imagine that this simple thing(darkness) is beyond science (evidence).
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rossum
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So, the reality of Vishnu does not require evidence? The Bhagavad Gita can be assumed true in the absence of any evidence.
You may want to rethink that approach.
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Noose001
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Vishnu and Bhagavad are what they are, doesn’t matter to me. If you can articulate who Vishnu is and properly describe what he does then i’ll be able to judge if they are real.
Q. Is darkness real, what is your evidence?
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rossum
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Your question is not relevant to this thread.
I gave you the evidence for observed instances of speciation.
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Noose001
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A 2 year old knows the answer. It destroys your ideas about every reality having empirical evidence.
Not according to the Catholic church (see topic).
Your evidence is not evidence, just a position that makes you have sound sleep.
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anendlesswaltz
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Non-catholic here. Please, I do not wish to offend and if i break any forum rules, please tell me and i will edit my post. I am not sure what i am allowed to say on here; i know some christian forums outright ban supporting certain things.
I have always been a supporter of evolution. As a child i loved big cats and dinosaurs. So to hear my mom tell me they never existed really confused me as a kid. Did Satan make them and put them there to trick us, i wondered? But then that would mean Satan can make things do and only God can do that. It was a really confusing thing for me and it played a part in my falling away for a few years, eventually, because i couldn’t wrap my head around what science class was teaching us and the increasingly…what’s the word…like science class versus Genesis 1 and 2’s creation account were two totally different sides of the spectrum and i felt as if i had to choose a side.
I think its important to consider more than just that conundrum, though. Forgive me if this is out of bounds, but if you propose that we evolved instead of were created…what does that mean for the account of the Fall of Man? You can say that everything up through Genesis 11 was allegorical and symbolic, if you want, and that’s all well and fine save for that little big detail. Its been a huge stumbling block for me. And i think all the ‘fantastical’ creation and world beginning chapters in Genesis probably stop people from being willing to be open to believe and be saved. I wonder at least.
Just…if we evolved, at what point did we become created in God’s image? if we evolved and there was never just one man and one woman originally, how do we re-explain the Fall from a symbolic perspective? if we evolved, then that could mean that disease and death and injury is a natural part of God’s created earth. Dinosaurs and woolly mammoths all went extinct before modern homo sapiens came onto the scene.
So i think its a loaded question, not only the Catholic church’s stance on evolution which is something i could easily go and google. But the individual’s choice, as well, is equally if not more so filled with internal conflict. At least in my experience. Again, if i violated any forum rules please tell me and i will edit the parts out of this post. I just wanted to be open and honest about my experience with the topic of evolution versus creationism. I love history and science and at times, it feels i must choose those or the Genesis creation account. Its been a long time now, but I remember learning in school that the catholic church punished the man Galileo who proposed that the earth revolved around the sun because it believed that the bible supported a clearly geocentric view. That the sun and moon revolved around the earth.
I have always been a supporter of evolution. As a child i loved big cats and dinosaurs. So to hear my mom tell me they never existed really confused me as a kid. Did Satan make them and put them there to trick us, i wondered? But then that would mean Satan can make things do and only God can do that. It was a really confusing thing for me and it played a part in my falling away for a few years, eventually, because i couldn’t wrap my head around what science class was teaching us and the increasingly…what’s the word…like science class versus Genesis 1 and 2’s creation account were two totally different sides of the spectrum and i felt as if i had to choose a side.
I think its important to consider more than just that conundrum, though. Forgive me if this is out of bounds, but if you propose that we evolved instead of were created…what does that mean for the account of the Fall of Man? You can say that everything up through Genesis 11 was allegorical and symbolic, if you want, and that’s all well and fine save for that little big detail. Its been a huge stumbling block for me. And i think all the ‘fantastical’ creation and world beginning chapters in Genesis probably stop people from being willing to be open to believe and be saved. I wonder at least.
Just…if we evolved, at what point did we become created in God’s image? if we evolved and there was never just one man and one woman originally, how do we re-explain the Fall from a symbolic perspective? if we evolved, then that could mean that disease and death and injury is a natural part of God’s created earth. Dinosaurs and woolly mammoths all went extinct before modern homo sapiens came onto the scene.
So i think its a loaded question, not only the Catholic church’s stance on evolution which is something i could easily go and google. But the individual’s choice, as well, is equally if not more so filled with internal conflict. At least in my experience. Again, if i violated any forum rules please tell me and i will edit the parts out of this post. I just wanted to be open and honest about my experience with the topic of evolution versus creationism. I love history and science and at times, it feels i must choose those or the Genesis creation account. Its been a long time now, but I remember learning in school that the catholic church punished the man Galileo who proposed that the earth revolved around the sun because it believed that the bible supported a clearly geocentric view. That the sun and moon revolved around the earth.
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Noose001
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One can easily tell that evolution doesn’t happen.
- If all organisms are of the same species with their parent(s), then there can only be one species in the entire world.
- If not, then at some point in time, some organisms did not share the same species with their parent(s) which means that it is possible for parents to bring forth organisms of a different species.
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Pattylt
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Many Catholics here believe that humans evolved from earlier ancestral hominids. When God decided the time was right, he gave a pair an immortal soul, called them Adam and Eve and they were ensouled in the image of God. When they committed the Original sin, all their progeny also had the stain of original sin. The other “humans” that were not ensouled eventually died out or bred with ensouled humans so that everyone still has the original sin that Jesus came to right.
Not all Catholics believe this but it is an elegant description of the merging of Gods plan and evolution. There are many other threads on here that delve into the arguments and agreements.
Not all Catholics believe this but it is an elegant description of the merging of Gods plan and evolution. There are many other threads on here that delve into the arguments and agreements.
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