Evolution and Creationism

[rossum]

Are you back at the uncaused cause? God created time, space and matter ex-nihilo. Once this was done he created biological life as we know it.

Shifting the goalposts there, buffalo. Your original question was about “life”, not about “life on earth”. They have different answers, or maybe not if the first life is omnipresent.

 

[buffalo]

Ok, then i’ll revise to - “On the basis of empirical observation, there is still a substantial portion of the human DNA strand that does not appear to code for anything that can be directly or indirectly observed and attributed to the apparent non-coding codon.”

Cool?

Not cool. does not appear?

 

[buffalo]

They have different answers, or maybe not if the first life is omnipresent.

Is God biological life?

 

[Hume]

Hume:

Ok, then i’ll revise to - “On the basis of empirical observation, there is still a substantial portion of the human DNA strand that does not appear to code for anything that can be directly or indirectly observed and attributed to the apparent non-coding codon.”

Cool?

Not cool. does not appear?

As it stands, 'dems da facts.

 

[Techno2000]

Techno2000:

But, that still means that green algae is one of our Great 000-000-000 Grandpa…don’t it ?

Not quite. Green algae are our great^n cousins. Choanoflagellates are our great^n grandparents.

Yeah, I remember the stories they used to tell about how hard is was to survive in those days.They would go on and on about how they had to float around for miles and miles looking for a few meager pieces of bacteria to eat. But they said they always had faith that one day they would evolve into something better.

 

[EndTimes]

I don’t believe in any gods.

And I don’t attend forums, 24/7 …
… .where those who believe in a Flat Earth and/or Casper the Friendly Ghost - hang out…

 

[Hume]

Hume:

I don’t believe in any gods.

And I don’t attend forums, 24/7 …
… .where those who believe in a Flat Earth and/or Casper the Friendly Ghost - hang out…

Welcome to covid-world.

 

[EndTimes]

Welcome to covid-world.

No Thanks -

 

[Hume]

Well, we agree on something then.

 

[EndTimes]

Well, we agree on something then.

Although… ‘nice’ … .it’s not of top importance to me that Truth must be agreed with…

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

And the fact that copying errors or exposure to various chemicals or possibly radioactivity causes these mutations in the genetic code leading to small changes to the organisms …

Progress, perhaps.

Perhaps a small progress in that you are begining to realise that you don’t understand the evolutionary process at all. What you said, that ‘evolutionists claim’ that the environment causes the changes is completely, catastrophically and undeniably wrong. But that’s what you think. You actually wrote it and posted it. And that’s what Ripperger thinks as well. That what he bases his psr argument on.

Here are some further comments from him just to emphasis the fact:

'…some external cause, such as environment, causes the other thing to have the characteristics that are proper to a different species. ’

Utterly incorrect. Not even wrong. A complete travesty of an explanation of the actual process.

‘…since the environment is lower in the order of being than the mutation, it would cause in some species a higher order; there would not be here a proportion between the cause and the effect and thus there is a violation of the principle of sufficient reason.’

Galactically wrong. Stupendously wrong. I can’t emphasis enough how wrong this is. Off the charts wrong.

‘Since each species/essence acts through its accidents, the accidents cannot cause a change of a higher order…’

Nonsensical. Fantasy. He’s just made something up here. There is no. such. thing. as. a. higher. order.

 

[Freddy]

o_mlly:

But the various essences or substances in the environment do not have sufficient order to be able to cause a mutation of a higher order because, in that particular case, the things in the environment do not contain sufficient existence to be able to beget that existence in another thing.

Is there an icon for a facepalm?
This is the result of waaay too much Aquinas and not even remotely enough time spent learning what the scientifc model actually says.

It’s got me nonplussed. The whole argument is based on a complete misunderstanding of the process. And for the life of me I can’t seem to get that across. That the very basis for the argument is wrong. My point is not that I don’t agree with the argument or I think it’s being used in a way for which it wasn’t intended but that it is predicated on a proposal that is a complete misunderstanding of the process which it is trying to deny.

 

[buffalo]

The whole argument is based on a complete misunderstanding of the process

Maybe the atheist is the only one capable of understanding evolution. But then again the evolutionary formed brain is not a reliable truth detector for it is only interested in survival.

 

[Freddy]

rossum:

So, you cannot tell us and you cannot even provide a link to where you claim to have told us.

Unless and until you inform me otherwise I shall put you down as a YEC.

…not billions but could be many thousands.

We have a winner. Gee, it’s like pulling teeth, isn’t it. So we can now ignore anything you post that references a time in excess of a few thousand.

Kinda limits you to creationist sites, doesn’t it. Now you have the same problem as o-mlly. Post anything from the kosher scientific literature and it will contain, or it will reference, details of a planet that is billions of years old. So youneither have to post information that you don’t believe or you are stuck with using Kolbe or AIG or the DI.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

The whole argument is based on a complete misunderstanding of the process

Maybe the atheist is the only one capable of understanding evolution. But then again the evolutionary formed brain is not a reliable truth detector for it is only interested in survival.

Hey, this is a new one. So Christians were formed by God and atheists evolved. And if a Christian understands evolution then he must be an atheist.

Who told you that people are only interested in survival? Maybe you’ve just been watching Castaway and became confused. But no, seriously - where did you get that from. It sounds like a travesty of a position that a creationist might come up with.

 

[buffalo]

We have a winner. Gee, it’s like pulling teeth, isn’t it. So we can now ignore anything you post that references a time in excess of a few thousand.

Because of your propensity to distort I will include my response to @rossum

Suit yourself. You know better. I am a younger earther, definitely. IOW not billions but could be many thousands. And I have explained this for all to see several times.

I will add that recent RC dating of dino bones to around 30K years ago gives support to older than 6K.

This has been my declared position here for many years.

 

[buffalo]

Hey, this is a new one. So Christians were formed by God and atheists evolved. And if a Christian understands evolution then he must be an atheist.

Who told you that people are only interested in survival? Maybe you’ve just been watching Castaway and became confused. But no, seriously - where did you get that from. It sounds like a travesty of a position that a creationist might come up with.

Does absolute truth exist?

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

Hey, this is a new one. So Christians were formed by God and atheists evolved. And if a Christian understands evolution then he must be an atheist.

Who told you that people are only interested in survival? Maybe you’ve just been watching Castaway and became confused. But no, seriously - where did you get that from. It sounds like a travesty of a position that a creationist might come up with.

Does absolute truth exist?

Yeah. It’s absolutely true that it’s pouring down here at the moment. A fact that cannot be denied.

Freddy:

We have a winner. Gee, it’s like pulling teeth, isn’t it. So we can now ignore anything you post that references a time in excess of a few thousand.

Because of your propensity to distort I will include my response to @rossum

Suit yourself. You know better. I am a younger earther, definitely. IOW not billions but could be many thousands. And I have explained this for all to see several times.

I will add that recent RC dating of dino bones to around 30K years ago gives support to older than 6K.

This has been my declared position here for many years.

Just to put this into context…

If the age of the planet were equal to the distance between NY and LA then your claim that it is at most 30,000 years old represents a distance approximately equal to that between batter and first base.

Maybe you think the distance for what you class as a yec is about as far as Severino could spit and that’s sufficient to differentiate you from them. Me? Anyone who hasn’t left the state is yec.

Looking forward to your next linked article.

 

[Freddy]

It doesn’t. Micro to macro is just a dream.

So don’t forget your explanation on the limits for miroevolution. How it stops. Why it stops. Where it stops. What it considers to be the point from which it starts to get to the point where it stops. How it knows what those points are. You must have answers to these questions. You can’t deny something happens without being able to explain why.

This is your main point. That one works but the other doesn’t. You need to address this.

 

[buffalo]

Maybe you think the distance for what you class as a yec

@rossum called me a “middle earther” I laughingly agreed. That would put rossum at about 50K. My how his position has changed. rossum, don’t worry just having a little fun with @freddy Who just admitted absolute truth exists, (remember your old signature)