Evolution and Creationism

[rossum]

I’m sorry this is an impossibility. Even though it is only a story, gradually loosing one function to gain another makes the organism less likely to survive especially that moment when it is not having a fully functional fin and a fully functional limb.

Can a flying fish swim in water? Yes it can. It has to swim very fast in order to build up the speed to ‘fly’, more correctly glide. It is a very fast swimmer with fins for fast swimming.

Can a flying fish glide in the air? Yes it can, often for long distances. This is because its fins are adapted for gliding.

Fins can have more than one function: fins for swimming and fins for gliding on the same animal.

Humans can use their arms for swimming. Humans can also use their arms for other purposes, such as scratching their heard, wondering why some people do not realise that a single organ can have multiple functions.

You can talk with your tongue. You also use your tongue to help with eating food. Your tongue is also the sense organ for taste. One organ can have different functions; it is not restricted to a single function.

 

[Pattylt]

I’m sorry this is an impossibility. Even though it is only a story, gradually loosing one function to gain another makes the organism less likely to survive especially that moment when it is not having a fully functional fin and a fully functional limb.

At each stage of the progression from a fin to a lobe, it was completely adapted to its current environment. An enhanced lobe allowed those that had them to utilize an area that the shorter lobed fish could not. The short lobed fish were perfectly adapted to their environment but unable to reach and maneuver into shallower areas. Those that had longer stronger lobes could and those were perfectly adapted to those shallower areas…and this progressed, each population adapted to its own environment with small mutations for larger lobes to allow portions to explore even shallower areas and reproduce…an on and on.

Just because you are anti evolution and don’t like it, doesn’t mean that others are unable to understand and accept it. The evidence is there. If you have a better explanation for the evidence we have, publish it. Demanding that we must have every micro step in the process is just being obstinate. We have many of the steps…we can see where they started and where they were in the middle and where they ended up today. Using this evidence, what’s your theory?

 

[Noose001]

Darwin observed variation. He was correct, there is variation in populations. since Darwin’s time we have learned a lot more about how that variation arises, including the processes you mention as well as mutations.

I also observe variation and i’m sure Darwin was wrong.

For a mudskipper, improving the way its fins work on land is an advantage. For a flying fish, improving the way its fins work in the air is an advantage. Our distant ancestors, such as Tiktaalik, were more like mudskippers – fish that made excursions onto land. For that purpose, dual function limbs were useful. Frogs still have dual-function limbs, able to move both on land and in the water.

Mudskipper, flying fish, frogs and Tiktaalik are what they are, designed for their specific ecosystem- each with fully functional body parts and not transitional body parts.

 

[Pattylt]

not transitional body parts.

Of course it wasn’t transitional to them! It’s transitional to what came later. Do you really not understand this? We are transitional to whatever we will be in 100,000 years yet we are complete as we currently are.

 

[Noose001]

At each stage of the progression from a fin to a lobe, it was completely adapted to its current environment. An enhanced lobe allowed those that had them to utilize an area that the shorter lobed fish could not. The short lobed fish were perfectly adapted to their environment but unable to reach and maneuver into shallower areas. Those that had longer stronger lobes could and those were perfectly adapted to those shallower areas…and this progressed, each population adapted to its own environment with small mutations for larger lobes to allow portions to explore even shallower areas and reproduce…an on and on.

Again, a nice story and nothing more.

A fin or a limb’s functionality is not just about appearance of lobs, it systems; the circulatory, muscular, skeletal, nervous systems. Each of these systems has numerous gene controlled components.
For your story to be credible, you need to explain how accidents worked on all the system at to achieve a functional change.

 

[Noose001]

Of course it wasn’t transitional to them! It’s transitional to what came later. Do you really not understand this? We are transitional to whatever we will be in 100,000 years yet we are complete as we currently are.

I’m not transitional and i know this.

 

[Pattylt]

I’m not transitional and i know this

How do you know this?

 

[Noose001]

Can a flying fish swim in water? Yes it can. It has to swim very fast in order to build up the speed to ‘fly’, more correctly glide. It is a very fast swimmer with fins for fast swimming.

Can a flying fish glide in the air? Yes it can, often for long distances. This is because its fins are adapted for gliding.

You just need to prove that this fish is slowly turning into a bird.

 

[Noose001]

How do you know this?

I can think and one of the thoughts is that the communication method for the human species (language) could not have been as result of natural selection because it is externally acquired through a process called learning. You learn words and their meaning for you to speak a language.

You can try explaining this.

 

[Pattylt]

Sorry, I don’t want to waste my time. I’ll say that language is an emergent property and you will disregard it. I have better things to do today. I’m very sorry that you don’t see the beauty and explanatory power of the theory of evolution. However, this isn’t a needed part for one to live a happy and healthy life…so, enjoy!

 

[Techno2000]

utilize resources it’s ancestors couldn’t

When is it going to be able to utilize these resources, when it takes evolution millions of years to do anything ? In real life, if a plant or animal can’t adapt it dies, end of story, there is no future fit offspring to save the day.

 

[Noose001]

Sorry, I don’t want to waste my time. I’ll say that language is an emergent property and you will disregard it. I have better things to do today. I’m very sorry that you don’t see the beauty and explanatory power of the theory of evolution. However, this isn’t a needed part for one to live a happy and healthy life…so, enjoy!

Darwin saw variation in species and concluded that those variations come about through beneficial mutations and natural selection.
I’m also seeing variations in species and part of these variations is human language(s), but i can not come to the same conclusion as Darwin for obvious reasons. Darwin’s theory of diversity is not conclusive. Period.

 

[Techno2000]

Can a flying fish glide in the air? Yes it can, often for long distances. This is because its fins are adapted for gliding.

I guess after millions of years of trial and error that fish finally got it right…kinda like the Wright brothers.

 

[Techno2000]

Noose001:

not transitional body parts.

Of course it wasn’t transitional to them! It’s transitional to what came later. Do you really not understand this? We are transitional to whatever we will be in 100,000 years yet we are complete as we currently are.

Is there any plant or animal living today that is NOT fit for its environment ?

 

[Techno2000]

It’s transitional to what came later.

Way too vague

 

[o_mlly]

Again, a nice story and nothing more.

Yes, very imaginative. It reads like the atheist’s version of Genesis. And atheists wonder why theists just don’t agree with it. When they ask me, “I will say: ‘I’m terribly sorry, but you didn’t give us enough any evidence .’ ”.

 

[ImQuiet]

Noose001:

Again, a nice story and nothing more.

Yes, very imaginative. It reads like the atheist’s version of Genesis. And atheists wonder why theists just don’t agree with it. When they ask me, “I will say: ‘I’m terribly sorry, but you didn’t give us enough any evidence .’ ”.

I gave you plenty. You have yet to give a reason for rejecting it.

 

[rossum]

You just need to prove that this fish is slowly turning into a bird.

No. Your source for this has minimal understanding of evolution. Find a better source so you can ask relevant questions.

If you want a formal answer to your question, then evolution depends on the environment. So, if we are to know what a flying fish will evolve into then we need to know, in detail, what the environment will be like in future for as long as the evolutionary change takes. That is how grossly wrong your source is. The question needs to include all the details of the relevant environment for millions of years into the future. When you can get that from your source, we can have another look at your question.

 

[Pattylt]

Is there any plant or animal living today that is NOT fit for its environment ?

Depends if the environment is changing or stable.
If we continue to have ice melt at the North Pole, then the Polar bear may become extinct. Any life that is living in an environment different than when it evolved into that environment is at risk or has become extinct. Do you think no life has become extinct?

If the life is under pressure, (depleting food sources, temperature change, new competition) it will either have a mutation that helps it adapt (beneficial) and survive or it won’t and will go extinct.

You really either need to at least understand what evolution is…even if you don’t agree with it…or just read and not post as you are coming off as clueless to what evolution actually is.

 

[buffalo]

then evolution depends on the environment.

Now we are finding organisms shape their environment.