Evolution and Creationism

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Your explanation for the existence of rabbits is a fiction.
How is this relevant to the question? You are very obviously trying to divert from the fact, as shown in many of your posts here, that you have no explanation for the origin of rabbits.

You have nothing to show us. In effect you are wasting your time here by providing no explanations. I find macroevolution a far better explanation for rabbits than the … «crickets» … you have given us. Science has discovered a wide range of different extinct lagomorphs to flesh out the ancestry of rabbits and hares.

It is that scientific data you have to compete with, and currently you are failing, badly.
 
I find macroevolution a far better explanation for rabbits …
We are looking for an explanation for the origin of rabbits. Your source does not support your claim: all living things have a common origin.

If you recall, the rabbit-trick was your deflection, not mine.
 
You’re right. All we can do is try to make the time we have productive. We must, therefore, choose to ignore those who post no content, only polemics.
We must choose to keep our Focus upon Jesus and His Teachings
 
I already have an explanation: macroevolution. You have so far shown us nothing.
As stated previously, no one can prove a negative and all science at best is conjectural and corrigible. Macroevolution as science is in the realm of probability and, so far, the 130 years of evidence gathering puts macroevoluiton as so highly improbable as to make it indistinguishable from impossible.

This is the Philosophy Forum; not the Science Forum. The first principles of Philosophy determine that macroevolution is patently impossible.

As asked long ago and never answered:
Why do you reject the rational principle of sufficient reason?
 
As stated previously, no one can prove a negative
Two errors there. First, it is easy to prove some negatives: “There are no even prime numbers greater than 2,” for example.

Second, science does not do “proof”; science works on evidence and the best explanation of that evidence we currently have.
This is the Philosophy Forum; not the Science Forum. The first principles of Philosophy determine that macroevolution is patently impossible.
Obviously your logic is faulty; we have observed macroevolution so it cannot be impossible. Given the weight of scientific evidence versus one person’s opinion then there is no contest. Have you looked at the title of this thread? It is “Evolution and Creatinism” so evolution is on topic for this thread.
Why do you reject the rational principle of sufficient reason?
I do not reject it. Observed evidence of macroevolution provides sufficient reason to accept macroevolution. That is why I can explain the presence of rabbits and you have been unable to provide any alternative explanation.
 
Two errors there. First, it is easy to prove some negatives: “There are no even prime numbers greater than 2,” for example.
No. The argument is circular. Rather than prove a negative, it merely says one cannot break the rules.

A prime number is a positive integer that is not divisible without remainder by any integer except itself and 1. An even number is any integer that can be divided exactly by 2.

Similarly, one can claim, “There are no pieces other than the knight that can jump another piece."

Neither proves a negative.
Second, science does not do “proof”; science works on evidence and the best explanation of that evidence we currently have.
That’s better. You make my point.

In science, man does not make rules but attempts to discover them by observing effects and applying valid reasoning to explain causation. The reasoning is inductive. The conclusion is inferential. Inferences can never be proven universal. You cannot prove macroevolution and I cannot disprove it.
… we have observed macroevolution so it cannot be impossible.
And all your assertions of macroevolution observations have been refuted.
Have you looked at the title of this thread? It is “Evolution and Creatinism” so evolution is on topic for this thread.
Have you looked at the forum we are in? Science imposes upon itself a limitation, a myopic outlook that allows only propositions of natural causes to explain observed effects. As causes cannot be directly observed, only reasonably inferred causes can be proposed. (This is not meant to be a criticism of the scientific method. Science works because only natural causes can be employed to control nature. We cannot reliably invoke the supernatural for the benefit of mankind, only the natural.)

The science of reasoning is the domain of Philosophy. Scientific claims that are evidentially weak and highly dependent on valid reasoning ought be carefully examined under the rules of valid reasoning. Otherwise, irrational speculations and imaginations enter the field.

All historiographical sciences, unlike the experimental sciences, are evidentially weak. Macroevolution is especially so. The claim that all life has one common ancestor is a gigantic leap of logic from merely the evidence of microevolution. How good is that reasoning? Not very.

Applying the first principles of philosophy to evaluate whether “Evolution and Creation” better explains the diversity of life strongly concludes that Creation is the better explanation.

For a detailed argument see: http://kolbecenter.org/metaphysical-impossibility-human-evolution-chad-ripperger-catholic-creation/
 
Well, good grief. We have an answer at long last. We now know where o-mlly thinks rabbits come from. Now why on earth did that take so long.

The link is to the Kolbe Centre which is a creationist site. And here’s the alternative they give:

“According to the special creation model of origins on the other hand, God created the various kinds of living things, including man, by divine fiat and later, after the Fall, engineered a global flood that produced most of the ‘fossil record’.”

And:

“The Kolbe Center is committed in a special way to defending the Catholic teaching that “the literal and obvious sense of Scripture” as intended by the sacred authors must be believed unless reason or necessity force us to reject that teaching in favor of an exclusively figurative interpretation.”

You’re a creationist! God made bunnies by ‘divine fiat’.
 
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No. The argument is circular. Rather than prove a negative, it merely says one cannot break the rules.
And the presence of those rules allow us to indeed prove a negative. I can prove that there are no even prime numbers greater than 2 without actually having to examine every even number greater than 2.
In science, man does not make rules but attempts to discover them by observing effects and applying valid reasoning to explain causation. The reasoning is inductive. The conclusion is inferential. Inferences can never be proven universal. You cannot prove macroevolution and I cannot disprove it.
This I can agree with. Science does not do proof; it does evidence. I have evidence for the evolution of rabbits. So far you have shown us nothing. Science has evidence for macroevolution. The fact that you do not personally accept that evidence is irrelevant to science.
The evidence shows that your source is wrong: humans do evolve. Some humans have evolved lactase persistence while others have not. some humans have evolved high altitude tolerance; three different versions in Tibet, the Andes and Kenya. Other humans have not evolved high altitude tolerance. Some humans evolved smallpox resistance while others did not. Hence the disastrous effect of smallpox on Native Americans when Europeans brought it to America.

I am not interested in Father Rippenberger’s “metaphysical” reasons because I use a different metaphysics, based in Madhyamika Buddhism. That is very very different from the Christian metaphysics that Father Rippenberger uses. I prefer Nagarjuna to Saint Thomas Aquinas.

Does the Kolbe Center have an article on the metaphysical possibility or impossibility of rabbits evolving?
 
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The link is to the Kolbe Centre which is a creationist site .

You’re a creationist!
Deja Vue. Back to playbook rule #1.

Spare me the epithets. Do you have any arguments that show macroevolution does not violate the first principles of philosophy? You wrote that you accept the principle of sufficient reason. Changed your mind?
I have evidence for the evolution of rabbits …

Some humans have evolved lactase persistence …

humans have not evolved high altitude tolerance …

humans evolved smallpox resistance …
Rule number ?: When they ask for evidence of macroevolution just keep giving them more microevolution stuff.

What you don’t have is evidence of macroevolution.
I am not interested in Father Rippenberger’s “metaphysical” reasons …
Translation: “I have no refuting agruments …”
I prefer Nagarjuna
Translation: “I’m a believer in something else … based on panentheism. It’s all a matter of faith to me.” Why did it take so long for you to admit that?
Does the Kolbe Center have an article on the metaphysical possibility or impossibility of rabbits evolving?
Why would it? I just saw a white rabbit and, look, there’s a bigger brown one! Gee, microevolution again.
 
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Freddy:
The link is to the Kolbe Centre which is a creationist site .

You’re a creationist!
Spare me the epithets. Do you have any arguments that show macroevolution does not violate the first principles of philosophy?
None that you’d be interested in. Now that we’ve discovered that you are a creationist then it would be a waste of my time posting any further examples of evolution or trying to convince you of the validity of a common ancestor going back a time much longer than you’d even be prepared to accept. And a waste of your time reading them.

It’s not that you don’t understand the processes. You simply think that God made it all by ‘divine fiat’. And then messed up those pesky fossils with a flood.

I’m cool with that. And I would have been cool with that dozens of posts ago when you were asked for your position. Kinda frustrating why you were so reticent, but you’ll have your reasons.

So no, there won’t be anything further from me trying to convince you of something that you reject in such a drastically fundamentalist way. As I said, it would be a waste of both our time.
 
None that you’d be interested in …
I take that as a “No” as in you don’t have any arguments. Predictable. Flee the thread, Freddy. It’s philosophy time and you don’t have a clue.
So no, there won’t be anything further from me …
My first reaction, “Deo Gratias!” Then on reflection, I realized that actually you have nothing further to give. So, claim your imagined victory and get out fast seems to be your new strategy.
 
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Freddy:
None that you’d be interested in …
I take that as a “No” as in you don’t have any arguments. Predictable. Flee the thread, Freddy. It’s philosophy time and you don’t have a clue.
So no, there won’t be anything further from me …
My first reaction, “Deo Gratias!” Then on reflection, I realized that actually you have nothing further to give. So, claim your imagined victory and get out fast seems to be your new strategy.
As I said, nothing you’d be interested in. You’ve spend all your time on all these threads in in all your posts simply rejecting anything and everything that contradicts your personal views. Except that we didn’t know what they were. Now we do.

So what would be the point in repeating anything at all? There would be no purpose. But I won’t ‘flee the thread’. If you post something with which I disagree then I’ll let you know why. If someone else has something interesting to say then I’ll join in. If you want to promote creationism I’ll definitely be interested.

But there’s no victory. Except that we have finally got your alternative. No-one’s in these dabates to win anything. Or shouldn’t be anyway. We’re here to put our views out into the freash air and have them debated. Test them in the market place of ideas. Well, we look forward to you doing that from now on in anyway.
 
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Freddy:
The link is to the Kolbe Centre which is a creationist site . …
Really? The site condemns the work?

I would have given you the book site …
https://www.amazon.com/Metaphysics-Evolution-Fr-Chad-Ripperger/dp/3848216256

… but we know you don’t like to read books.
Another book? I’ll pass. I’m about half way through at least the last 4 at the moment. I seem to buy them quicker than I can read them (my lips get so tired after a while). But feel free to put forward the main arguments if you want to discuss it.
 
If you want to promote creationism …
Poor Fred. Couldn’t even read the abstract of the book. Ripperger doesn’t even mention “creation” until late in the piece. Having shown how the 6 first principles of philosophy argue against macro, Ripperger turns to the principles of logic and in the examination of the principle of economy explains why creation satisfies and macro, well who hasn’t gotten a headache reading:
The lobe allows the animal to maneuver in shallower waters yet still swim…as the lobe portion grows , it allows further maneuvering into more shallow water…to puddles…to mud…each allowing the animal to utilize resources it’s ancestors couldn’t. It allowed it to out reproduce it’s less lobed brothers…which led to more progeny with the heavier lobes…which led to a loss of the fin portions…no longer needed in its newer ponds and puddles…which lead to eventual limbs that allowed it to leave even the mud puddles and explore a vast new environment with vast new resources it could utilize. …
 
🤣 🤣
Killin’ me, Smalls
Completely off topic, but that line (and I cannot remember where I heard it) reminded me of something a guy I was working with said to me once. He was a real horse’s rear, always big noting himself. I asked what he was doing over the Xmas holidays. And he said his.parents had a beach house down the coast and he thought he’d go down there for a few days and finish his book.

Uh? You’re writing a book?

Long pause and a puzzled look. And he said: ‘No. I’m reading one’.

I swear that’s a true story.
 
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