Evolution: Catholic High School

[PhilVaz]

Don’t listen to me, Sungenis, or Fr. William Most on transitional fossils. We are not fossil experts. Go to your local public or university library, and take out these books by professional paleontologists, geologists, zoologists, etc. These are all available at my local U.S.F. library. Or these Catholic theologians, historians, philosophers, etc:

EVOLUTION, PHILOSOPHY, AND CHRISTIANITY (CATHOLICISM)

Creation and Evolution: A Conference with Pope Benedict XVI (Ignatius Press, 2008)
Chance or Purpose? Creation, Evolution and a Rational Faith by Cardinal Christoph Schonborn (Ignatius Press, 2007)
Intelligent Design: William A. Dembski and Michael Ruse in Dialogue (Fortress Press, 2007)
Perspectives on an Evolving Creation edited by Keith Miller (Eerdmans, 2003)
Darwin’s Forgotten Defenders: The Encounter Between Evangelical Theology and Evolutionary Thought by David N. Livingstone (Eerdmans, 1987)
The Post-Darwinian Controversies by James R. Moore (Cambridge Univ Press, 1981, 1979)

INVERTEBRATE EVOLUTION

An Introduction to the Invertebrates by Janet Moore (Cambridge Univ Press, 2006)
On the Origin of Phyla by James W. Valentine (Univ of Chicago Press, 2004)
Invertebrate Palaeontology and Evolution by E.N.K. Clarkson (Blackwell Science, 1998)

EVOLUTION OF ARTHROPODS (INCLUDING INSECTS)

Evolution of the Insects by Grimaldi and Engel (Cambridge Univ Press, 2005)
Crustacea and Arthropod Relationships edited by Koenemann and Jenner (Taylor & Francis, 2005)
Arthropod Fossils and Phylogeny edited by Gregory D. Edgecombe (Columbia Univ Press, 1998)

VERTEBRATE EVOLUTION

Vertebrate Paleontology by Michael J. Benton (Wiley-Blackwell, 2004, 3rd edition)
Patterns and Processes of Vertebrate Evolution by Robert L. Carroll (Cambridge Univ Press, 1997)
Vertebrate Paleontology and Evolution by Robert L. Carroll (Freeman, 1988)

EVOLUTION OF TETRAPODS (FOUR-LEGGED “AMPHIBIANS”)

Your Inner Fish: A Journey into the 3.5-Billion-Year History of the Human Body by Neil Shubin (Pantheon, 2008)
Gaining Ground: the origin and evolution of tetrapods by Jennifer A. Clack (Indiana Univ Press, 2002)
At the Water’s Edge: Fish with Fingers, Whales with Legs, and How Life Came Ashore but Then Went Back to Sea by Carl Zimmer (Free Press, 1999)

EVOLUTION OF MAMMALS (INCLUDING WHALES)

The Rise of Placental Mammals: origins and relationships of the Major Extant Clades edited by Rose and Archibald (Johns Hopkins Univ Press, 2005)
The Origin and Evolution of Mammals by T.S. Kemp (Oxford Univ Press, 2005)
Beasts of Eden: walking whales, dawn horses, and other enigmas of mammal evolution by David Rains Wallace (Univ of CA Press, 2004)
Mammals from the Age of Dinosaurs: origins, evolution, and structure by Kielan-Jaworowska, Cifelli, and Luo (Columbia Univ Press, 2004)
Horns, Tusks, and Flippers: the evolution of hoofed mammals by Prothero and Schoch (Johns Hopkins Univ Press, 2002)
The Emergence of Whales: evolutionary patterns in the origin of Cetacea edited by J.G.M. Thewissen (Plenum Press, 1998)
Fossil Horses: Systematics, Paleobiology, and Evolution of the Family Equidae by Bruce J. MacFadden (Cambridge Univ Press, 1994)

EVOLUTION OF BIRDS

The Inner Bird: anatomy and evolution by Gary W. Kaiser (Vancouver: UBC Press, 2007)
Dinosaurs of the Air : the evolution and loss of flight in dinosaurs and birds by Gregory S. Paul (Johns Hopkins Univ Press, 2002)
Taking Wing : Archaeopteryx and the evolution of bird flight by Pat Shipman (Simon & Schuster, 1998)
The Rise of Birds : 225 million years of evolution by Sankar Chatterjee (Johns Hopkins Univ Press, 1997)
The Origin and Evolution of Birds by Alan Feduccia (Yale Univ Press, 1996)

HUMAN EVOLUTION

The First Human: The Race to Discover our Earliest Ancestors by Ann Gibbons (Doubleday, 2006)
Bones, Stones, and Molecules: “Out of Africa” and Human Origins by Cameron and Groves (Elsevier, 2004)
The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey by Spencer Wells (Random House paperback, 2003)
The Human Fossil Record (volume 1, forthcoming in 4 volumes) by Schwartz and Tattersall (John Wiley and Sons, 2002)
Extinct Humans by Tattersall and Schwartz (Westview Press / Perseus Books, 2000)
The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Human Evolution edited by Jones, Martin, Pilbeam (Cambridge Univ Press, 1992)

Prothero (Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why It Matters [2007]) updates us on the fossil record and evolution in the 20 years since Carroll (Vertebrate Paleontology and Evolution [1988]):

“But the past 20 years * have produced some of the greatest discoveries of all, including incredible fossils that show how whales, manatees, and seals evolved from land mammals, where elephants, horses, and rhinos come from, and how the first backboned animals evolved. We now have an amazing diversity of fossil humans, including specimens that show that we walked upright on two feet almost 7 million years ago, long before we acquired large brains. In addition to all this fossil evidence, we have new evidence from molecules as well that enables us to decipher the details of the family tree of life as never before…The fossil record is an amazing testimony to the power of evolution, with documentation of evolutionary transitions that Darwin could have only dreamed about…The fossil record is now one of the strongest lines of evidence for evolution, completely reversing its subordinate status only 150 years ago. Instead of the embarrassingly poor record that Darwin faced in 1859, we now have an embarrassment of riches.” (Prothero [2007], page xix-xx)

OR you can let Barbarian take over another creation-evolution thread, he is much more expert than myself.

Phil P*

 

[strugglingalong]

I am going to be teaching at a Catholic High(Religion) school this September. I have a degree in Theology and History and have spent 10 years in the public school system teaching history.
This year will be my first at a Catholic school and I am very excited because I am going to be teaching Religion.

Ok here is my question. Do you think this is a good idea? When dealing with creation/evolution I was planning on presenting both sides. I was also planning on explaining what a Catholic may believe about evolution. However, I was also planning on telling the students about evolution’s “weak spots.” I think it is important to talk about the seemingly lack of transitional fossils that should be in existence if evolution is true. Ok what do you say? Is that evolution’s “achilies heal?” Let’s keep it real simple—THANKS!!

I think your approach is very sound and shows a great concern for the Catholic Faith and the souls of your students. I’d also make use of the encyclical Humanis Generis (however you spell it) that touches on evolution. I’d make it clear what the Church says cannot be denied and what must be held so students know what lines cannot be passed but I also think it is good to show evolutions weak spots.

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[cpayne]

i’d like to point out that this was exactly the position i was in not long ago. as both an atheist-turned-fencesitter and someone who has gained an above average familiarity with the theory of evolution during the course of my education, i can say without doubt that the creation/evolution controversy was the single issue most responsible for keeping me on the fence.

often i would see or hear people arguing from an incorrect premise, or without a full understanding of what the theory of evolution is, or even without knowing the difference between a scientific theory and the word theory in common usage. such instances do the religious a disservice, and very nearly drove me back over the fence. it was very hard to find fellowship with those who deny something i found so evident.

it was with great surprise that i learned that most of those people were not Catholic and that the Catholic Church does not forbid belief in evolution. that discovery was the catalyst that led me to seek knowledge of the Church.

i hope no one gets mad, my intent is not to belittle or ridicule people that dont believe in evolution, just to point out that had the people i consulted insisted i learn or accept creation theory i probably would have gone the rest of my life without seeking God

From an article by Phil Dowe on Augustine’s interpretation of Genesis:

“Augustine also urges that Christians must not be what he calls ‘doggedly literal minded’ in continuing to insist on a literal interpretation of Scripture in the face of proven science. He warns that Christians who do not take this advice will bring shame to their religion and its Scripture and prevent people from ever coming to accept what is important in Scripture.”

 

[strugglingalong]

From an article by Phil Dowe on Augustine’s interpretation of Genesis:

“Augustine also urges that Christians must not be what he calls ‘doggedly literal minded’ in continuing to insist on a literal interpretation of Scripture in the face of proven science. He warns that Christians who do not take this advice will bring shame to their religion and its Scripture and prevent people from ever coming to accept what is important in Scripture.”

Can you give me a place in St. Augustine’s writing to read more about this idea? Where in his works do we find this thought? Thank you.

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[Orogeny]

Ok here is my question. Do you think this is a good idea? When dealing with creation/evolution I was planning on presenting both sides. I was also planning on explaining what a Catholic may believe about evolution. However, I was also planning on telling the students about evolution’s “weak spots.” I think it is important to talk about the seemingly lack of transitional fossils that should be in existence if evolution is true. Ok what do you say? Is that evolution’s “achilies heal?” Let’s keep it real simple—THANKS!!

Why would you want to get into the science of evolution in a religion class? I would suggest that unless you are qualified to teach science, you don’t do that. Your reliance on Sungenis is not very reassuring from a science standpoint because he is not a scientist.

You ask to keep this simple, but you cannot begin to discuss the science if you want to do that. The science behind evolution is very, very solid, but it can be quite complex, especially to a non-scientist.

Peace

Tim

 

[Orogeny]

I do not find Ken Miller very credible. As scientist PZ Myers pointed out, Miller is not an intellectually honest choice as spokesman for the AAAS and NAS. He suggested Richard Dawkins would be better.

Here’s PZ Myers on you tube, just let it run to the 8:48 mark when he mentions Ken Miller. But I suggest listening to the whole thing.

youtube.com/watch?v=EczOQ1mV5aU

God bless,
Ed

You would prefer Richard Dawkins to a practicing Catholic? I am surprised at you Ed.

Peace

Tim

 

[strugglingalong]

Why would you want to get into the science of evolution in a religion class? I would suggest that unless you are qualified to teach science, you don’t do that. Your reliance on Sungenis is not very reassuring from a science standpoint because he is not a scientist.

You ask to keep this simple, but you cannot begin to discuss the science if you want to do that. The science behind evolution is very, very solid, but it can be quite complex, especially to a non-scientist.

Peace

Tim

Evolution though touches on or at least is relevant to theology because facets of it may discredit tenets of the Faith.

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[VociMike]

Evolution though touches on or at least is relevant to theology because facets of it may discredit tenets of the Faith.

I don’t believe this is possible. Can you give an example?

 

[cpayne]

Can you give me a place in St. Augustine’s writing to read more about this idea? Where in his works do we find this thought? Thank you.

Pax Christi tecum.

It is a theme of a lot of Augustine’s scriptural interpretation; it can be seen explicitly stated in places such as De Litteram (On the Literal Meaning of Genesis), Book 1, Chapter 19, Section 39; and also Book 2, Chapter 9 of the same work.

Thanks for the question.

 

[Rogerteder]

Evolution though touches on or at least is relevant to theology because facets of it may discredit tenets of the Faith.

Pax Christi tecum.

Yes, that is my point exactly evolution is relevant because certain aspects of it could undermine Christianity. (if not properly understood)
Also, I think it is important, although Augustine had certain problems with the literal interpretation of Geneis(creation), he nonetheless DID interpret Genesis literally as did almost all the Church Fathers (Origen being the excepton).

 

[Orogeny]

Evolution though touches on or at least is relevant to theology because facets of it may discredit tenets of the Faith.

Pax Christi tecum.

How does one teach the problems with evolution if they don’t know the science?

Peace

Tim

 

[Rogerteder]

How does one teach the problems with evolution if they don’t know the science?

Peace

Tim

Well we are trying to understand it better and as we can see there seems to be some disagreement even within the scientific world.

 

[cpayne]

Also, I think it is important, although Augustine had certain problems with the literal interpretation of Geneis(creation), he nonetheless DID interpret Genesis literally as did almost all the Church Fathers (Origen being the excepton).

He believed in a young earth, not knowing much science on the matter; he did not believe in a literal six days of creation. Chapters 11-13 of the Confessions deal with this quite extensively.

 

[strugglingalong]

He believed in a young earth, not knowing much science on the matter; he did not believe in a literal six days of creation. Chapters 11-13 of the Confessions deal with this quite extensively.

The age of the earth is not as a big of a deal as pre-humans pre-existing Adam and Eve or Adam and Eve not being literally the two parents of mankind and instead a sort of literary device for the human community. I could hardly see St. Augustine proposing the latter ideas.

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[cpayne]

By the way (to Rogerteder), I think everyone on the thread pretty much sympathizes with what you are trying to do—that is, it appears you are trying to be fair to all sides of the issue while touching on this subject in a religion class. I have taught on the same thing in a similar class. The argument seems to be over, “What does it mean exactly to be ‘fair to all sides’?”

 

[Orogeny]

Well we are trying to understand it better and as we can see there seems to be some disagreement even within the scientific world.

You are using Sungenis as a scientific source and that is not a good idea. He is not a scientist. Try Ken Miller. He is a Catholic biologist.

Is there disagreement in the scientific world about evolution? About some of the mechanisms, perhaps. About the fact of evolution, not really. Those who deny that evolution is a fact do so mostly based on their religious beliefs.

Bottom line is that you asked if arguing against evolution in religion class is a good idea. My answer is no. Especially if you are not qualified to teach science.

Peace

Tim

 

[cpayne]

The age of the earth is not as a big of a deal as pre-humans pre-existing Adam and Eve or Adam and Eve not being literally the two parents of mankind and instead a sort of literary device for the human community. I could hardly see St. Augustine proposing the latter ideas.

Pax Christi tecum.

Actually, I pretty much agree with you. Let’s agree that logically there does have to be a literal first example of Homo sapiens, whom the Bible refers to as “Man” and “Life” (Adam and Eve, in my off-the-top-of-my-head translation). But why is it a problem if there are pre-humans?

 

[cpayne]

Bottom line is that you asked if arguing against evolution in religion class is a good idea. My answer is no. Especially if you are not qualified to teach science.

Peace

Tim

I agree IF this is what Rogerteder is in fact trying to do. But isn’t he just trying to present different views of the issue?

Maybe I’m misreading what’s going on.

 

[steveandersen]

I am going to be teaching at a Catholic High(Religion) school this September. I have a degree in Theology and History and have spent 10 years in the public school system teaching history.
This year will be my first at a Catholic school and I am very excited because I am going to be teaching Religion.

Ok here is my question. Do you think this is a good idea? When dealing with creation/evolution I was planning on presenting both sides.
(a) How would this be relevant to a history course?
(b) What do you mean by “both” sides?

I was also planning on explaining what a Catholic may believe about evolution.

that is appropriate for a Catholic school

However, I was also planning on telling the students about evolution’s “weak spots.” I think it is important to talk about the seemingly lack of transitional fossils that should be in existence if evolution is true. Ok what do you say? Is that evolution’s “achilies heal?” Let’s keep it real simple—THANKS!!

Technically there really aren’t any “weak spots” in evolution at the level it should be taught in high school. Hammering out subtle details is PhD-level stuff.

I think that if someone with a non-technical background such as yourself tried to make technical criticisms of evolution you could be cause a drop in your credibility.

 

[strugglingalong]

Actually, I pretty much agree with you. Let’s agree that logically there does have to be a literal first example of Homo sapiens, whom the Bible refers to as “Man” and “Life” (Adam and Eve, in my off-the-top-of-my-head translation). But why is it a problem if there are pre-humans?

Technically it doesn’t but most people tend to take it in a naturalist and materialist manner, as if matter is pre-eminent and God only uses what is there (regardless if people say He made the matter too). The traditional view of God creating man explicitly from the dust of the earth makes people realize that man has come directly from God and is willed to be by God, not that He sort of used something close to a man and made it rational. That is what I see as problematic. Also I don’t see it as proven so I’m content to think with the minds of the Fathers.

Pax Christi tecum.