Evolution: Catholic High School

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I agree IF this is what Rogerteder is in fact trying to do. But isn’t he just trying to present different views of the issue?

Maybe I’m misreading what’s going on. 🤷
It would seem that he is planning on pointing out what he sees as weaknesses of evolution based on transitional fossils. That is a scientific argument against evolution, not simply presenting different views. He is getting his information from a bad source (Sungenis) and seems to be swayed by his (Sungenis) arguments.

I would be curious if Rogerteder is also planning on presenting the problems with a literal reading of Genesis - ie the age of the universe, scientific problems with Noah’s flood, etc. It seems that if he is only wanting to present different views, that would be part of the coursework.

Peace

Tim
 
I am going to be teaching at a Catholic High(Religion) school this September. I have a degree in Theology and History and have spent 10 years in the public school system teaching history.
This year will be my first at a Catholic school and I am very excited because I am going to be teaching Religion.😃

Ok here is my question. Do you think this is a good idea? When dealing with creation/evolution I was planning on presenting both sides. I was also planning on explaining what a Catholic may believe about evolution. However, I was also planning on telling the students about evolution’s “weak spots.” I think it is important to talk about the seemingly lack of transitional fossils that should be in existence if evolution is true. Ok what do you say? Is that evolution’s “achilies heal?” Let’s keep it real simple—THANKS!!
If anything, I’d follow a bit in line with VociMike from post #3. I might just try to defuse the whole thing. We are not all knowing. If anything as a Catholic trying to teach the religion, you really can’t do a good job of that unless you also let them know that some things will be left a mystery. With work some of those mysteries could be solved, but many won’t. They will be there regardless of if you acknowledge them or not.

Genesis gives us a testimony, we can get a feel for what it means, but to know it with utterly complete precision I think is beyond us. I’m sure you can pray on the verses your whole life and still learn something new in your old age.

Science is not Truth. It is a method. It takes are God given ability to reason, and helps us try to understand the natural world. While it may not be Truth, it is not nonsense. It does give us a certain perspective, that should not be brushed off. I don’t think it is a good idea to become too inflexible in your thinking, though you certainly should remain grounded. If you disregard one explanation over the other, just out of a reaction against the other, I think you chose a poor reason.

Along with being inflexible, I’m sure many looked to the messiah as one who would bring a certain power of a warlord who would bring Israel to glory, well if that was the case, they may have gotten the idea of the messiah right, but how exactly he would act would have been misinterpreted.

I guess if we are going to deal with a concept like the eternal, perhaps it might have all started with God acting in roughly the way of Genesis. Then with respect to the eternal there was a split at an instant that then filled that moment in with a complete past and complete future. Then with our perspective the is a fork in the past making both accounts true, although any study of the past would make the primary past nearly impossible to study today. The secondary past is more or less filled in as to give us an ability to give us a better understanding of the Truth, and allow us ways to better care for others.

If anything in this debate, it seems like you have rather small minority of people who are reacting against each other. While certainly you can have your preference one way or another, in day to day life, in most cases it isn’t that important. In religion there are much more important issues. In science, especially biology, you ought not disregard it, you don’t exactly though have to make it dictate your whole metaphysical or theological outlook (granted you still have to respect it). Things are not always as they seem though. There is still much mystery left in who it relates to Truth.

The point I think you should try to get across is to not make this an issue, where you set up a false dichotomy of either religion or science. You should not disregard the other, to bolster support for your preferences. There is so much mystery left, we couldn’t possible have a large amount of certainly. Don’t be stiff-necked and obstinate with regard to the subject.
 
You would prefer Richard Dawkins to a practicing Catholic? I am surprised at you Ed.

Peace

Tim
Hi Tim,

Did you listen to the interview? The AAAS and NAS are referred to as making a political choice. They are concerned about Christians accepting evolution, so Dawkins would be a no-no since he would send the “wrong” political message. Translation: We don’t want to come off as atheists.

Face it Tim, with PZ Myers, it’s clear science and atheism are linked. There is a battle to get people to reject God and embrace what is called science or evolution. Sam Harris, the author of The God Delusion, Mr. It’s Just a Cracker. It should be pretty obvious by now that it’s not about science.

Peace,
Ed
 
Did you listen to the interview? The AAAS and NAS are referred to as making a political choice. They are concerned about Christians accepting evolution, so Dawkins would be a no-no since he would send the “wrong” political message. Translation: We don’t want to come off as atheists.
I think that you mean Miller, not Dawkins.
Face it Tim, with PZ Myers, it’s clear science and atheism are linked. There is a battle to get people to reject God and embrace what is called science or evolution. Sam Harris, the author of The God Delusion, Mr. It’s Just a Cracker. It should be pretty obvious by now that it’s not about science.
So you are willing to question Miller’s credibility based Myers’ recommendation? And you agree that Dawkins is more credible?
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edwest2:
I do not find Ken Miller very credible. As scientist PZ Myers pointed out, Miller is not an intellectually honest choice as spokesman for the AAAS and NAS. He suggested Richard Dawkins would be better.
Peace

Tim
 
Nope. I meant what I said. But here’s a rephrase: Let’s get this Christian guy to front for us because if we get Dawkins, people will think we’re athesists. My point is, most of them are.

Science and atheism are linked and that’s how both are currently being promoted.

Peace,
Ed
 
Face it Tim, with PZ Myers, it’s clear science and atheism are linked.
I had no idea PZ Myers was the King of evolution.
There is a battle to get people to reject God and embrace what is called science or evolution.
Yes fellow believers, throw down the shackles of evil by burning your books, computers, and medicine as science is the work of the Devil!
Sam Harris, the author of The God Delusion, Mr. It’s Just a Cracker. It should be pretty obvious by now that it’s not about science.
Sorry, this paragraph was just stupid.
A. Sam Harris is not the author of The God Delusion, Dawkins is.
B. PZ Myers was the one who said the Eucharist is just a cracker, not Dawkins or Harris
C. Yes it is obvious that its not about science. Its about you not knowing whats going on yet acting like chicken little.
 
Science and atheism are linked and that’s how both are currently being promoted.
If what you claim is true, let’s ban science. We, as Christians, owe that to our brothers who have been or will be lead astray by science. How can you not support that position?

Peace

Tim
 
Leading Scientists Still reject God

stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/news/file002.html

Peace,
Ed
Irrelevant and you know it. Some of those scientists are chemists. You have said before that chemistry has no bearing on origins (which is a laugh, of course), so why would they be athiests?

Perhaps you should look in the mirror, Ed. Perhaps the reason more scientists self-identify as athiests or agnostics is because they have been told over and over that they can’t be men and women of faith and accept science at the same time. Sound familiar?

Peace

Tim
 
Ok let me simplify this a little bit. Question:

What about the claim (yes by Sungenis, but also by others) that there really are no transitional fossils. The ones that are sited(which are rare) are actually abnormalities in which certain animals shared some characteristics of other animals. The reason we know this is because there should be an abundant of transitional fossils if the theory of evolution is true.
Isnt this really the crux of the matter? It would seem, to me, that if species evolved for millions and millions of years then there should be tons of these fossils in the “transitionary” stage (fossils that are between two species). Why do we have tons(if evolution is true) of non-transitional fossils but a small amount at best, of transitional ones?
 
If what you claim is true, let’s ban science. We, as Christians, owe that to our brothers who have been or will be lead astray by science. How can you not support that position?

Peace

Tim
What we owe to our fellow Catholics are the calmly reasoned words of Cardinal Schoenborn who talks about ideology in science.

What I suggest you consider is the fact that throughout history, men have used and manipulated other men with whatever tools they had at their disposal. Today, science is that weapon. It is appropriate to point out when science is used to convince people to be atheists. And that is their choice to make. But I do have to voice my concern when a scientist takes a eucharistic host, puts a nail through it and throws it into the trash. What do you think motivated Mr. Myers do that?

Peace,
Ed
 
Irrelevant and you know it. Some of those scientists are chemists. You have said before that chemistry has no bearing on origins (which is a laugh, of course), so why would they be athiests?

Perhaps you should look in the mirror, Ed. Perhaps the reason more scientists self-identify as athiests or agnostics is because they have been told over and over that they can’t be men and women of faith and accept science at the same time. Sound familiar?

Peace

Tim
If they were told that, it wasn’t by me. Tim, I think you know that nothing written here is going to stop scientists from going to work tomorrow.

Peace,
Ed
 
What about the claim (yes by Sungenis, but also by others) that there really are no transitional fossils. The ones that are sited(which are rare) are actually abnormalities in which certain animals shared some characteristics of other animals.
There are actually hundreds of documented transitional fossils. That said, existing species could be called transitional species as well as evolution never stops as long as there is life. Just pat above your bum to feel exactly what I mean. Or you could look at your pinky toe.
The reason we know this is because there should be an abundant of transitional fossils if the theory of evolution is true. Isnt this really the crux of the matter? It would seem, to me, that if species evolved for millions and millions of years then there should be tons of these fossils in the “transitionary” stage (fossils that are between two species). Why do we have tons(if evolution is true) of non-transitional fossils but a small amount at best, of transitional ones?
I really think the only way to ignore the mountains of transitional fossils requires either ignorance, or flat out denial.

Anyways, check this out it might help you out.

youtube.com/watch?v=Qfoje7jVJpU
 
That said, existing species could be called transitional species as well as evolution never stops as long as there is life.
Wait. If evolution never stops why isn’t man continuing to evolve?

Will we evolve to something else? Why can’t we evolve to something irrational?

Pax Christi tecum.
 
Wait. If evolution never stops why isn’t man continuing to evolve?

Will we evolve to something else? Why can’t we evolve to something irrational?

Pax Christi tecum.
Yes, evolution is still occuring in humans, granted its a bit slower for us as we can eliminate alot of our former natural selectors. Here is a video with some cool new traits that have appeared in recent years.
youtube.com/watch?v=TU-7d06HJSs
 
Ok let me simplify this a little bit. Question:

What about the claim (yes by Sungenis, but also by others) that there really are no transitional fossils.
They are wrong.
The ones that are sited(which are rare) are actually abnormalities in which certain animals shared some characteristics of other animals.
Of course they claim this. They have to because even one transition fossil will destroy their literal interpretation of Genesis.
The reason we know this is because there should be an abundant of transitional fossils if the theory of evolution is true.
There are lots of transitional fossils. Do some research at non-YEC sites.
Isnt this really the crux of the matter?
No it is not.
It would seem, to me, that if species evolved for millions and millions of years then there should be tons of these fossils in the “transitionary” stage (fossils that are between two species). Why do we have tons(if evolution is true) of non-transitional fossils but a small amount at best, of transitional ones?
What you are looking for is not on the species level, you are looking at the family or above level. Things like Tiktaalik: tiktaalik.uchicago.edu/

Another source of information regarding transitional fossils:
talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html

Keep in mind that even a single transitional fossil would validate evolution and invalidate the brand of biblical literalism that people like Sungenis adhere to.

Peace

Tim
 
If they were told that, it wasn’t by me.
Right. You have made your position on that clear Ed. You can’t run from your written record.
Tim, I think you know that nothing written here is going to stop scientists from going to work tomorrow.
And what does that have to do with our current discussion?

Peace

Tim
 
Oh no! It’s all my fault! I can’t run, I can’t Hide! Give me a break.

The drama, the drama 🙂

Ed
 
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