Evolution: Is There Any Good Reason To Reject The Abiogenesis Hypothesis?

[rossum]

I am a scientist, and I am very curious to know exactly what source of ENERGY, and what type of ENERGY you refer to , that enables evolution to fly in the face of Thermodynamic Law.

As a scientist, you can look at the equations for the laws of thermodynamics. Energy appears in those equations. Different types of energy do not; merely energy.

For example, gravitational energy can coalesce hydrogen into stars, which locally reduces entropy: in a state of maximum entropy the hydrogen would be evenly spread through that volume of space, not concentrated in a single star.

The energy source my quote was talking about was correctly identified by Pattylt in the post above.

 

[Aloysium]

Especially in undergraduate school Darwin’s theory and the hypothesis of abiogenesis were “pushed” by “science” academics, and faithfully regurgitated by me on tests to earn top grades.

Ain’t it the truth.

As you say, it’s not taught at higher levels, and that is because it is irrelevant to the actual facts that constitute science.

It is a myth that brings those facts together into a story that gives them some legitimacy in speaking to what transcends that area of inquiry. There is no reason to assume that empiricism can address the fundamental questions we have about our existence, yet there we have it. With no proof and contrary to reason, the " ping-pong ball (is believed to have ascended) Mount Everest" through its random interactions with the elements. This very experience of communicating knowledge in which we are here engaged, has presumably arisen randomly and spontaneously, resting on purely the four fundamental forces of nature. What we are and how we got here are understandings that matter to people in general and the distortion and misuse of modern science to answer those questions, leads us to absurdity of abiogenesis and evolution.

 

[Aloysium]

I’m going to take a wild guess…the sun.

Good guess, and now comes the part as to how reality is structured such that, against the chaos of matter acting on the basis of its own inherent properties, all this wonder has arisen.

 

[Bradskii]

Pattylt:

I’m going to take a wild guess…the sun.

Good guess, and now comes the part as to how reality is structured such that, against the chaos of matter acting on the basis of its own inherent properties, all this wonder has arisen.

https://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/how-do-stars-form-and-evolve

 

[Aloysium]

I was referring to the existence of you yourself as a person, a frame of reference that is able to know and act, invent science, in other words, utilizing as the fundamental source of energy for our bodies, the sun. Those interested in how things work, find the nature of this ontological structure especially interesting and are frustrated when presented with the pap so prevalent today and passed off as science.

 

[rossum]

Those interested in how things work, find the nature of this ontological structure especially interesting

To quote something I have posted here before:

The emptiness of emptiness is the fact that not even emptiness exists ultimately, that it is also dependent, conventional, nominal, and in the end it is just the everydayness of the everyday. Penetrating to the depths of being, we find ourselves back on the surface of things and so discover that there is nothing, after all, beneath those deceptive surfaces. Moreover, what is deceptive about them is simply the fact that we assume ontological depth lurking just beneath.

– Jay Garfield, “Empty words, Buddhist philosophy and cross-cultural interpretation.” OUP 2002.

Your perception of ontological structure is incorrect. Human perceptions can be fooled – as with a mirage. This is another similar case. What you think you see isn’t really there.

 

[Bradskii]

I was referring to the existence of you yourself as a person, a frame of reference that is able to know and act, invent science, in other words, utilizing as the fundamental source of energy for our bodies, the sun.

What is Evolution?

Evolution is a theory, an idea with lots of evidence. It explains why animals and plants are so good at surviving in their environments, the places where they live. What it means is that a species …

scienceforthekids.wordpress.com

 

[GodIsPerfection]

Brilliant post Alosium!

Before you can address the disease, you must diagnose it (categorize it accurately, analyze it, name it). Henceforth, it will be diagnosed as “THE MYTH OF EVOLUTION.”

Remember the fable, “The Emperor’s New Clothes?” Once there was a powerful Emperor who demanded the finest clothes from his tailors. Nothing they could create was pleasing. Finally, they presented the rarest, invisible clothing, spun from thread so fine it could not be seen. The Emperor was delighted, and paraded his new clothes in the streets. EVERYONE agreed that their Emperor indeed was wearing the finest clothing in the world…all except one little boy, who pointed out that the Emperor was stark naked in public. Suddenly, everyone realized that the little boy was right.

Evolution is not science, and it is unscientific, so why is it “pushed” as truth in the educational system? There is an element of socialized deception at work here. Like the Emperor’s clothes, most people cleave to a group position. People want to “fit-in.” It is difficult to challenge the group, even if they are wrong. Students in the educational system bear the additional onus of getting a bad grade if they object to the socialized myth of evolution. The modern “educational” system aims to indoctrinate the masses.

What purpose does “The Myth” serve? The myth provides a GODLESS explanation for creation. This is very important to escape the supreme morality that must be considered if there is a Creator-God. People are to think ONLY of four dimensional, worldly, reality (length, height, width, time). Other-dimensional considerations such as Heaven, Hell, The Kingdom of God, Angels, Demons, Satan are dispensed with. The door is left wide open for Marx’ “Dialectic Materialism,” and Nietzsche’s “Will to Power,” and “God Is Dead.”

Mis-“education” in “science” is coupled with mis-education in the other disciplines to solidify the “world-as-only-reality” deception. Education in Theology for most is practically non-existent. After very costly mis-education, people emerge from universities with diplomas that tell themselves and others they are EDUCATED. What a sad hoax!

So, where lies the real power behind the myth and the hoaxing that pervades “education?”

**1 John 4

4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. And this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming; and now it is already in the world. 4 Little children, you are from God, and have conquered them; for the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world; therefore what they say is from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and whoever is not from God does not listen to us. From this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

 

[Techno2000]

Brilliant post Alosium!

Before you can address the disease, you must diagnose it (categorize it accurately, analyze it, name it). Henceforth, it will be diagnosed as “THE MYTH OF EVOLUTION.”

Remember the fable, “The Emperor’s New Clothes?” Once there was a powerful Emperor who demanded the finest clothes from his tailors. Nothing they could create was pleasing. Finally, they presented the rarest, invisible clothing, spun from thread so fine it could not be seen. The Emperor was delighted, and paraded his new clothes in the streets. EVERYONE agreed that their Emperor indeed was wearing the finest clothing in the world…all except one little boy, who pointed out that the Emperor was stark naked in public. Suddenly, everyone realized that the little boy was right.

Evolution is not science, and it is unscientific, so why is it “pushed” as truth in the educational system? There is an element of socialized deception at work here. Like the Emperor’s clothes, most people cleave to a group position. People want to “fit-in.” It is difficult to challenge the group, even if they are wrong. Students in the educational system bear the additional onus of getting a bad grade if they object to the socialized myth of evolution. The modern “educational” system aims to indoctrinate the masses.

What purpose does “The Myth” serve? The myth provides a GODLESS explanation for creation. This is very important to escape the supreme morality that must be considered if there is a Creator-God. People are to think ONLY of four dimensional, worldly, reality (length, height, width, time). Other-dimensional considerations such as Heaven, Hell, The Kingdom of God, Angels, Demons, Satan are dispensed with. The door is left wide open for Marx’ “Dialectic Materialism,” and Nietzsche’s “Will to Power,” and “God Is Dead.”

Mis-“education” in “science” is coupled with mis-education in the other disciplines to solidify the “world-as-only-reality” deception. Education in Theology for most is practically non-existent. After very costly mis-education, people emerge from universities with diplomas that tell themselves and others they are EDUCATED. What a sad hoax!

So, where lies the real power behind the myth and the hoaxing that pervades “education?”

If you don’t believe in the supernatural, then the devil has got you right where he wants you.

 

[GodIsPerfection]

Right on!

And the popularized thought systems in “education” discourage thinking about the supernatural.

This is a downside of too much democratic thinking in everything. If the majority can’t perceive something supernatural, and you do, you MUST be wrong. You will be labeled “superstitious” or maybe even “delusional.” This is how thought-police systems operate, and they are everywhere (especially in “education”) today.

Even the Catholic Church is sometimes labeled as “superstitious.”

 

[Bradskii]

What purpose does “The Myth” serve? The myth provides a GODLESS explanation for creation.

I know you’re new to the discussion, GIP, but you won’t find anyone in this thread or any other or indeed in the whole forum who is proposing a godless version of evolution.

Remember when you filled in your exam paper with details of evolution to get a good grade? If you were honest with yourself, then you should have presented yourself to the professor and told him that in your humble opinion, it was God that created Man.

If the proff was any good he’d have accepted your answer and then told you to detail the current best scientific explantion of how He did it.

Schools and unis don’t demand that you believe it. They demand that you understand it. You are free to discuss your preferred version in the theology department.

Right on!

 

[GodIsPerfection]

Ahhhhhh…perhaps I’m merely casting my pearls…

 

[Bradskii]

Well, you are the scientist. I’m just a random guy on a forum shootin’ the breeze.

 

[Aloysium]

The emptiness of emptiness is the fact that not even emptiness exists ultimately, that it is also dependent, conventional, nominal, and in the end it is just the everydayness of the everyday. Penetrating to the depths of being, we find ourselves back on the surface of things and so discover that there is nothing, after all, beneath those deceptive surfaces. Moreover, what is deceptive about them is simply the fact that we assume ontological depth lurking just beneath.

– Jay Garfield, “Empty words, Buddhist philosophy and cross-cultural interpretation.” OUP 2002.

The initial observation I make on the words presented here is that they are indeed empty, not really saying much of any value. Clearly this moment exists, and it would be unadulterated denial that it does not. There is no being mistaken or incorrect in simply being oneself, dfoing what one does, because this is what it is. Going a bit further, to believe in matter implies understandings that are illusions, at best statements of the interactions of things, whatever those things may be as relational events in themselves. I see what I see; and at the other end exists some form of being other than myself, to which my perceptions, reason, emotions and behaviour connect. It is really there as I am really there. Sometimes one needs to heed one’s own words.

 

[Aloysium]

Thanks for giving an example of the pap I was referring to.

 

[Bradskii]

Thanks for giving an example of the pap I was referring to.

You would do well to study it. Even briefly. All the arguments that you have ever put forward against it have only indicated to everyone that you know next to nothing about it.

How you can argue against something when you don’t understand it (as opposed to not accepting it - you don’t have to) has always been a mystery to me.

 

[Techno2000]

Aloysium:

I was referring to the existence of you yourself as a person, a frame of reference that is able to know and act, invent science, in other words, utilizing as the fundamental source of energy for our bodies, the sun.

What is Evolution? | Science for kids

Evolution is an important part of palaeontology. Many of the extinct animals found look like they have bits of different animals stuck to them. Many fossil birds are found with teeth. This is because birds evolved from Dinosaurs which do have teeth. Eventually birds lost their teeth and now no living species has them.

And Dinosaurs can dance too…

 

[Bradskii]

You have to use the forum correctly, Al. If you hit the reply button on someone’s post then that person’s icon appears at the top right of your post. Like your’s did on this one. Then we know to whom you are referring…

 

[Hobgoblin]

If you hold evolution and abiogenesis to be true, then you must also hold the story of the Garden of Eden to be false

They can both be true. Abiogenesis and evolution are the mechanisms of creation. Adam was the first rational homosapien and all rational homosapiens descended from him. Some of those bred with non-rational homosapiens. No problems with the gene pool, original sin or the sacrifice of Christ.

 

[Techno2000]

non-rational homosapiens

What kind of creatures were they ?