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netmilsmom
Guest
Oooo, I think I stated the wrong kind of parish.
The one’s they leave are not “Deep Catholic”
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The one’s they leave are not “Deep Catholic”
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Dr.Bombay
Guest
You are so right. Latin in and of itself does not make for reverence. But consider this. Is it possible that priests who use Latin in the Mass are already accustomed to saying the Mass, in whatever language, with reverence?
Back in the day, before the Council, there were priests who used to race thru Mass, mutter nonsense that just sounded like Latin, etc. We’ve all heard the horror stories. Being but a wee child, I can’t speak of any firsthand experience. However, I believe the people who tell these stories.
Now, is a reverent English Mass preferable to a scandalous TLM? Of course. But, how many scandalous Latin Masses (old rite or new rite) are celebrated today?
Here’s my point. The Latin Masses of today are said by priests who choose that language and want to preserve our precious liturgical patrimony. Therefore, as a rule, Latin Masses said nowadays are more reverent. Not because of the language, but because of the intent of the priest.
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netmilsmom
Guest
Dr. Bombay:
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Shinobu
Guest
We don’t have a traditional Latin Mass around here, we really only have one Catholic Church in town. Since I don’t have the luxury of a car I just need to be happy and thankful that we at least have one Catholic Church in town that I can go to.
That being said, I would like a more traditional and more reverant Church to attent. Then again I am new to Catholocism so what right do I have to be choosy?
I think I am just continually becoming disenchanted by how everything in our society today has been permeated and corrupted by the debacle of the late 60’s and the 70’s. What once may have been a conservative, pious worship has been reduced to a feel-good, funky-time hour where less is considered more. Then again I am still upset from the guitar andtamborine day we had at Mass on Thursday.
That being said, I would like a more traditional and more reverant Church to attent. Then again I am new to Catholocism so what right do I have to be choosy?
I think I am just continually becoming disenchanted by how everything in our society today has been permeated and corrupted by the debacle of the late 60’s and the 70’s. What once may have been a conservative, pious worship has been reduced to a feel-good, funky-time hour where less is considered more. Then again I am still upset from the guitar andtamborine day we had at Mass on Thursday.
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Toni
Guest
I have not had one for years but I do now and am very thankful.
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Yonnie
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
As far as I know there is only one parish in the Diocese of Phoenix that does one Latin mass at 1:00 PM on Sunday but I think it might be Tridentine, not N,O.
I only dream of having a parish like this.
As far as I know there is only one parish in the Diocese of Phoenix that does one Latin mass at 1:00 PM on Sunday but I think it might be Tridentine, not N,O.
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netmilsmom
Guest
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netmilsmom
Guest
Keep praying, Yonnie.
I heard a news report today that said that our New Holy Father said that the reason why our church has fallen is because of lack of the true liturgy.
It may be…COMING SOON TO A PARISH NEAR YOU!
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peregrinator_it
Guest
I’d like to say that I’m posting in reply to the discussion above and not to the poll question.
Many (if not most) posters on this board would agree that there is, in general, a widespread lack of reverence plaguing the liturgy in the U.S. - that many places celebrate the liturgy as if they were unaware that God is made present during it. Rome has tried to address this lack of reverence with the GIRM, but many parishes still ignore Rome’s directives.
I think Netmil(name removed by moderator) is trying to propose that using EWTN’s liturgical customs would be a remedy for this irreverence.
Objections along the lines of “Latin doesn’t equal reverence” and “the Mass is the Mass, whatever the peripherals may be” have been voiced as an argument against following the EWTN example.
I certainly agree that the use of Latin does not guarantee reverence. And it’s true that the Mass is the Mass despite the peripherals.
But the issue being raised is reverence in the liturgy. Reverence arises from a knowledge of what one is undertaking and an attempt to show that knowledge through one’s actions, attitudes, and words. It doesn’t just matter ** what ** we say and do; it matters how we say and do it-as anyone who’s ever been told “don’t use that tone of voice with your mother” knows.
Since reverence arises from an acknowledgement of what one is doing, it seems to me that the only really effective remedy for the lack of reverence in the liturgy is conversion of heart. And so I don’t agree with those who propose a return to the TLM, for example.
But, we human beings need reminders of the importance of what we are participating in during Mass. And I find that the use of Latin, as opposed to the vernacular, is a potent reminder that I am not just saying ordinary words to another human being; the inclusion of ancient melodies reminds me that the Church and the Truth do not change through time.
Will following EWTN’s customs automatically produce a reverent congregation? No, but it would give those who desire to be reverent a chance to do so. And I think there is a greater desire for a return to reverence in the U.S. than many realize.
P.S. I’ve been blessed to attend the Latin Pauline Mass (my parish offers the Pauline Mass- in English and in Latin- and the TLM every week) for most of my life.
Many (if not most) posters on this board would agree that there is, in general, a widespread lack of reverence plaguing the liturgy in the U.S. - that many places celebrate the liturgy as if they were unaware that God is made present during it. Rome has tried to address this lack of reverence with the GIRM, but many parishes still ignore Rome’s directives.
I think Netmil(name removed by moderator) is trying to propose that using EWTN’s liturgical customs would be a remedy for this irreverence.
Objections along the lines of “Latin doesn’t equal reverence” and “the Mass is the Mass, whatever the peripherals may be” have been voiced as an argument against following the EWTN example.
I certainly agree that the use of Latin does not guarantee reverence. And it’s true that the Mass is the Mass despite the peripherals.
But the issue being raised is reverence in the liturgy. Reverence arises from a knowledge of what one is undertaking and an attempt to show that knowledge through one’s actions, attitudes, and words. It doesn’t just matter ** what ** we say and do; it matters how we say and do it-as anyone who’s ever been told “don’t use that tone of voice with your mother” knows.
Since reverence arises from an acknowledgement of what one is doing, it seems to me that the only really effective remedy for the lack of reverence in the liturgy is conversion of heart. And so I don’t agree with those who propose a return to the TLM, for example.
But, we human beings need reminders of the importance of what we are participating in during Mass. And I find that the use of Latin, as opposed to the vernacular, is a potent reminder that I am not just saying ordinary words to another human being; the inclusion of ancient melodies reminds me that the Church and the Truth do not change through time.
Will following EWTN’s customs automatically produce a reverent congregation? No, but it would give those who desire to be reverent a chance to do so. And I think there is a greater desire for a return to reverence in the U.S. than many realize.
P.S. I’ve been blessed to attend the Latin Pauline Mass (my parish offers the Pauline Mass- in English and in Latin- and the TLM every week) for most of my life.
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netmilsmom
Guest
Oh please, you must translate all of your signature lines for us…pretty please?!?
(Especially the German)
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peregrinator_it
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
. I’ve been in a papal mood lately 
.
Benedict Gott Geschickt= what the Germans have been chanting to our new Pope. It means “Benedict, sent by (from?) God.” Kind of a pun because “benedict” in Latin means “blessing.”
The other is just the first lines of the hymn from the old Mass for the Dead with JP2’s name inserted. It means “May the angels lead you to paradise, John Paul.”
Happy toOh please, you must translate all of your signature lines for us…pretty please?!?
(Especially the German)
. I’ve been in a papal mood lately .Benedict Gott Geschickt= what the Germans have been chanting to our new Pope. It means “Benedict, sent by (from?) God.” Kind of a pun because “benedict” in Latin means “blessing.”
The other is just the first lines of the hymn from the old Mass for the Dead with JP2’s name inserted. It means “May the angels lead you to paradise, John Paul.”
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netmilsmom
Guest
Ooooo! I hope you don’t mind but I borrowed the German for a tagline on another forum.Happy to
Benedict Gott Geschickt= what the Germans have been chanting to our new Pope. It means “Benedict, sent by (from?) God.” Kind of a pun because “benedict” in Latin means “blessing.”
The other is just the first lines of the hymn from the old Mass for the Dead with JP2’s name inserted. It means “May the angels lead you to paradise, John Paul.”
God Bless you Friend.
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peregrinator_it
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Not at all- borrowed it from a news story myself. It’s a good thing to spread around
Thanks. Same to you.
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Lux_et_veritas
Guest
I do now! :dancing:
assumptiongrotto.com/
The best part is that I wasn’t looking for it, and it use to annoy me when I saw it on EWTN.
Wow! How things change when you let the Lord take the steering wheel for a spell.
:dancing:
assumptiongrotto.com/
The best part is that I wasn’t looking for it, and it use to annoy me when I saw it on EWTN.
Wow! How things change when you let the Lord take the steering wheel for a spell.
:dancing:
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Mysty101
Guest
Your little emocons look very Charismatic 
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Lux_et_veritas
Guest
I’m proof of this because there couldn’t have been a more sloppy, irreverent example than myself just 4 weeks ago.
Before
I came to church late and I left early and I “limped” my way into the pew, missing my own genuflection many times. Genuflection for me was a mechanic without substance. I almost always chose to sit when I could have kneeled. I talked to people on either side of me during mass and not about the mass. I was indifferent during consecration, allowing my mind to wander. In fact, my mind wandered throughout the mass. A priest so focused on God in his mass, that in a matter of two weekday masses, he pulled me right in to help me see I that never had a God-Centered mass, because my focus was not on Him.My mass was about me - me and my entertainment. If I didn’t like which priest was saying mass, I wasn’t charitable, reading the bulletin instead of listening to what he had to say.
After
The list could go on. And after I began a swift conversion from a life of “lapsed Catholic while sitting in the pew” to just a Catholic sitting in the pew, I recall asking God to help me restore a sense of reverence because I felt it was lacking and He didn’t appreciate it. After landing at Assumption Grotto in Detroit, He showed me I never had any.
I first felt like I dropped into the 1950’s and had the usual sarcastic thoughts when I first walked in seeing all the signs of reverence. But, my guardian angel worked overtime through many people there.
A girl only about 10 years old, genuflecting with such deep, visible sincerity, it struck me, then shamed me. She taught me how giving due respect to the Lord in the Blessed Sacrament leads to reverence in his presence. I started first by showing respect, and in a matter of days as I continued to genuflect with purpose and sincerity, reverence “happened”. A woman twice my age, kneeling in the back of the church, very deep in prayer and oblivious to anything or anyone around her, had only her nylons to buffer the cold marble against her aging knees. Combining this with the instruction of Fr. Eusebius, ORC in his Corpus Christi homily, that a straight knee is a sign of strength and a knee that is bent - a sign of humility, I put the two together and realized that showing respect meant being humble, and through this humility reverence “happens”. Now my untrained knees are getting a workout.Just these two things led to other things.
Coming early and staying for a while, along with the many others in the Church enabling Jesus to work on us as he works his way through our body. No talking during mass to anyone. Recognizing the need to not allow myself to be distracted by anything during the mass and developing a strong focus on God during the mass. I’m even learning to control my reflexes, tuning out the bubbly baby in front of me, in favor of the Lord, especially during consecration. As many have read, my mass is in the process of shifting from an entertainment expectation, to one of full worship of God. It doesn’t matter whether I like the priest (provided he is in line with church teaching). Sometimes the least “cool” priest can offer the best advice.I have found that the external dynamics that I thought were so important, mean nothing if the internal dynamics aren’t there. The Gregorian Chant I hear at the beginning of communion during the week, followed by utter silence, enables me to prepare myself and it is the “sameness” that enables me to focus. I was always looking for change, which is an entertainment oriented desire. I now value simplicity in my mass and I find it in the "EWTN type mass. " Needless to say, I’m no longer annoyed with it when I find it on TV. I find it soothing.
If it weren’t for the highly reverent atmosphere, driven by highly reverent people, I would never have learned these lessons.
Reverence is the result of showing proper respect to the Lord. And it requires humility - something that seems to have been missing from my 1970’s catechism along with talk of virtue, sin, sacrifice and a whole lot more.
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viktor_aleksndr
Guest
How i wish that we have it too. !!! How i wish that Pope Benedict will give order to all parishes about this kind of mass be celebrated every sunday.
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bones_IV
Guest
Well, said.
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netmilsmom
Guest
viktor aleksndr:
Does anyone think that a letter writing campaign to the Vatican would help with this?
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TeriGator
Guest
I am really thrilled to see what has been said here. I have been longing for a church where reverence is abundant, and wishing that I could find a mass like EWTN’s. As far as I know, the closest mass with Latin is in Jacksonville, where I believe they say the indult. Other than that, I don’t think there is anything close to EWTN nearby.
Our pastor has been slowing trying to improve the liturgy here, I think. He has been gradually introducing the ancient languages, for example we sing the Kyrie and Agnus Dei during Lent. He sings most of the prayers, which I love. He’s also been trying to make our church look more Catholic, by installing beautiful artwork inside and out. We have a fantastic statue of Christ outside the church, and it adds such beauty to that 60’s/70’s look of the church building.
Check it out, if you like. The statue was carved in Italy, and the heart was carved by parishioners.
I think he is trying to undo some of the faux-Vatican-2 stuff, but it’s hard to be patient. I want it to all happen NOW! :bounce:
holyfaithchurch.org/ListPics/listpics.asp?a=show&ID=380
Our pastor has been slowing trying to improve the liturgy here, I think. He has been gradually introducing the ancient languages, for example we sing the Kyrie and Agnus Dei during Lent. He sings most of the prayers, which I love. He’s also been trying to make our church look more Catholic, by installing beautiful artwork inside and out. We have a fantastic statue of Christ outside the church, and it adds such beauty to that 60’s/70’s look of the church building.
Check it out, if you like. The statue was carved in Italy, and the heart was carved by parishioners.
I think he is trying to undo some of the faux-Vatican-2 stuff, but it’s hard to be patient. I want it to all happen NOW! :bounce:
holyfaithchurch.org/ListPics/listpics.asp?a=show&ID=380
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