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hays1122
Guest
Very well put. This is a wonderful website for learning about our faith.
And our faith should not be in a denomination,but in Christ.
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tGette
Guest
I will also give my thumbs up on that…or how about one thumb up!
With this given post…I urge anyone and/or everyone to post a comment on my thread “We Must ALL Agree (part 2)”. I keep shamelessly plugging my thread!
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
The bottom line is that the premise of this posting accomplishes little. It is angry and hostile so it sure isn’t going to get an open-minded Protestant to hear Manny’s view. And it’s more protestant-bashing so the hardcore EWTN Catholics have already been there and done that so what does it accomplish?
Saying that any Catholic who leaves the Roman Church obviously didn’t truly understand it is just nonsense. There are many people who join the Roman Catholic Church with a very full, insightful, and intelligent understanding of the theology, catechism, history, and teachings, but they come to some dogma that they don’t believe in. It happens. If a person thought that papal infallibility, for example, because it only became an official teaching of the church in the 1800’s, seemed bogus, that could be a reason to distrust the church. If a person looked back at the early church and saw no mention of indulgences or supererogation or the Assumption of Mary, etc. and felt the Church was teaching false doctrine, then they might leave. A person can be an informed Catholic and just not believe in the infallible nature of the Church. They don’t necessarily have to be a selfish, conniving, egotist who wants things his/her way.
Manny is convicted in his faith, which is nice, but it’s absolutely at a point where all of his posts have the same “you protestants just don’t get it do ya!?” tone to them that serves to only alienate some, tick off others, and bore the rest.
If I were a protestant visiting here considering whether to become Catholic and I came across Manny’s threads talking about how ignorant protestants are and how blind they are and how, if they only could see the light they’d be Catholics, I’d be put off.
It’s so pharisaic. “I follow the rules! You don’t!”
And it’s easy to label everyone a heretic. Hey, that happened to Jesus once! Yes, we can rack on Martin Luther and say he’s burning in the perdition’s flames right now but the bottom line is, we didn’t live in the 16th century amid all that corruption, we weren’t in Brother Martin’s head to know his heart and motives, and it’s easy to judge.
If someone believes in their heart, for whatever reason, that Roman Catholicism is not true Christianity, and they are very knowledgable about their faith, we really can’t be in their head to judge them as dullards and selfish. People come to different conclusions, sometimes for all the right reasons they think, and sometimes for selfish reasons. I have known folks who’ve left Catholicism because they were ultra liberal and into themselves or rebellious and sinful. But not all are like that.
And quoting Father Corapi right and left as if he’s the Pope or St. Benedict…ay yay yay. Corapi’s a great guy, I love him, but let’s come up with quotes from someone else! lol…anyone!
Saying that any Catholic who leaves the Roman Church obviously didn’t truly understand it is just nonsense. There are many people who join the Roman Catholic Church with a very full, insightful, and intelligent understanding of the theology, catechism, history, and teachings, but they come to some dogma that they don’t believe in. It happens. If a person thought that papal infallibility, for example, because it only became an official teaching of the church in the 1800’s, seemed bogus, that could be a reason to distrust the church. If a person looked back at the early church and saw no mention of indulgences or supererogation or the Assumption of Mary, etc. and felt the Church was teaching false doctrine, then they might leave. A person can be an informed Catholic and just not believe in the infallible nature of the Church. They don’t necessarily have to be a selfish, conniving, egotist who wants things his/her way.
Manny is convicted in his faith, which is nice, but it’s absolutely at a point where all of his posts have the same “you protestants just don’t get it do ya!?” tone to them that serves to only alienate some, tick off others, and bore the rest.
If I were a protestant visiting here considering whether to become Catholic and I came across Manny’s threads talking about how ignorant protestants are and how blind they are and how, if they only could see the light they’d be Catholics, I’d be put off.
It’s so pharisaic. “I follow the rules! You don’t!”
And it’s easy to label everyone a heretic. Hey, that happened to Jesus once! Yes, we can rack on Martin Luther and say he’s burning in the perdition’s flames right now but the bottom line is, we didn’t live in the 16th century amid all that corruption, we weren’t in Brother Martin’s head to know his heart and motives, and it’s easy to judge.
If someone believes in their heart, for whatever reason, that Roman Catholicism is not true Christianity, and they are very knowledgable about their faith, we really can’t be in their head to judge them as dullards and selfish. People come to different conclusions, sometimes for all the right reasons they think, and sometimes for selfish reasons. I have known folks who’ve left Catholicism because they were ultra liberal and into themselves or rebellious and sinful. But not all are like that.
And quoting Father Corapi right and left as if he’s the Pope or St. Benedict…ay yay yay. Corapi’s a great guy, I love him, but let’s come up with quotes from someone else! lol…anyone!
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
Here’s a way to reply to SIA here without sounding condescending…reworded for charity!
Well, SIA, according to Catholic theology, our faith teaches us that mortal sins are deadly ones. You probably know this already. But, sadly enough, if a person were to die in this state, his salvation would be lost. It’s a pretty grim thought to be sure and something I hate to even think about.
But Manny says, “If you were Catholic you’d know this!!” and he talks every thread about hell, hell, hell, hell, on and on…
Pharisee in training!
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
Superb post, very lucid and dead-on. I agree 100%
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Protestant101
Guest
I doubt that you even know the real purpose and meaning behind the Catholic Eucharist my friend - you would never reply to us “erring” Protestants like this if you did.
While I see many Catholics who do not have a good understanding of the related scripture passages concerning the Eucharist; I have never seen one who was serious about this Catholic “sacrament” talk to anyone this way. And thats because they are serious about Jesus, and His will.
You can’t prove that we are to eat “meat” (“real flesh”) and drink “wine” (“real blood”) in order to have “the fullness of truth.” It will not save us, no matter how many times we do it.
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sandusky
Guest
As usual, a well-reasoned statement (all of it). :tiphat:
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
If each protestant group believed they could “believe whatever they wanted,” then why did Lutherans have constant wars with the Reformed neighbors in Switzerland, etc? Why did the Church of England not get along with Puritans? Why did the Anabaptists not get along with the Reformed? Or how about Zwingli and Luther? Or Bucer and Calvin? On and on? Protestants, to their credit, did establish standards. The 39 Articles in Anglicanism, the Augsburg Confession in Lutheranism, etc. etc. Protestants established norms of beliefs and often were very tough on their adherents during reformation times and persecuted each other. To say that they were all just liberal and believed whatever they wanted willy-nilly is way off…
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cheese_sdc
Guest
What about an ex-Catholic who spent 4 years in the seminary?
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chris_molter
Guest
That’s a no-go. Please see “Rev. Matthew Fox” as an example.What about an ex-Catholic who spent 4 years in the seminary?
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MDK
Guest
Is it recommended to leave Christ’s Church because of the behavior of fallible men? The teachings of the Catholic Church are infallible regarding faith and morals. You can’t get that anywhere else.
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emeraldcoast
Guest
They would rather you not post…What about an ex-Catholic who spent 4 years in the seminary?
Peace!
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Militant_Ellen
Guest
My experience with Ex-catholics has been they have been poorly cathechized after confirmation.They stopped learning after third grade or seventh grade,whenever they were confirmed.I had stopped learning myself.I also think another problem is somehow
along the continuum we lost personal spiritual advisors, that previous generations had .I understand because of our limited resourses that our clergy have the primary need for personal advisors…I’m grateful that this site exsists
because it does fufill part of that need.We may lose less people if they can get information first hand,but we are all not priests and
learned and some have even set us back in regard to being harsh or unkind,making a point, as opposed to helping the person requesting guidance.I agree many ex-catholics are, to say the least, not experts.They have chosen another direction because they didn’t have all the facts or they chose to ignore them as facts, or we as a church were not helpful at that pivital point.To be catholic is to be"confrontational" to most of the stimuli in all of our daily lives. I’m still on my journey. I’m not even a particularly "good"catholic,but I’m trying like the devil.
I do respect ex-catholics callings to follow other directions but they should know we miss them and want them back and in "truth"if they keep learning the Lord will bring them back at least to respect us as “fellow"Christians” and get them to stop reading hate “stuff"like “chick tracks”.Titillating material, a sort of"Christian porn”.but out right deliberate misinformation.I pray for all of us on our journey.I would also like to say that many Ex-catholics do return to the faith and are better catholics than many of us “faithful”.My husband is ex-catholic,we are married 33years in Jan.,He became born again 23y.ago.The Lord has taught me many lessons in tolerance and respect.I sometimes think that I’ve just been a very poor power of example,then I realize it’s not about me.I however , won’t be perverted against the gospel and faith which comes from the Lord himself.
I’m catholic like a Jew is a Jew,it’s my core,my shame is my "journey"could have been better,but "today"is all I have.
As for me and my house we serve the Lord,from different angles,
but we serve the Lord.
along the continuum we lost personal spiritual advisors, that previous generations had .I understand because of our limited resourses that our clergy have the primary need for personal advisors…I’m grateful that this site exsists
because it does fufill part of that need.We may lose less people if they can get information first hand,but we are all not priests and
learned and some have even set us back in regard to being harsh or unkind,making a point, as opposed to helping the person requesting guidance.I agree many ex-catholics are, to say the least, not experts.They have chosen another direction because they didn’t have all the facts or they chose to ignore them as facts, or we as a church were not helpful at that pivital point.To be catholic is to be"confrontational" to most of the stimuli in all of our daily lives. I’m still on my journey. I’m not even a particularly "good"catholic,but I’m trying like the devil.
I do respect ex-catholics callings to follow other directions but they should know we miss them and want them back and in "truth"if they keep learning the Lord will bring them back at least to respect us as “fellow"Christians” and get them to stop reading hate “stuff"like “chick tracks”.Titillating material, a sort of"Christian porn”.but out right deliberate misinformation.I pray for all of us on our journey.I would also like to say that many Ex-catholics do return to the faith and are better catholics than many of us “faithful”.My husband is ex-catholic,we are married 33years in Jan.,He became born again 23y.ago.The Lord has taught me many lessons in tolerance and respect.I sometimes think that I’ve just been a very poor power of example,then I realize it’s not about me.I however , won’t be perverted against the gospel and faith which comes from the Lord himself.
I’m catholic like a Jew is a Jew,it’s my core,my shame is my "journey"could have been better,but "today"is all I have.
As for me and my house we serve the Lord,from different angles,
but we serve the Lord.
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cathopologist
Guest
Occultists have been known to make comparisons with Christianity - and mock it at the same time. Whats your definition of “occultism”?
Many people get baptized for the wrong reasons. For example here in Asia, many Chinese get baptized simply to get a Christian name. It does not make them more of a Christian. Likewise, your baptism would be useless if you do not follow Catholic teachings. Catholicism strongly discourages occultism. Your invalid beliefs are as good as the Macumba practitioners of Brazil.
Funny.
Why don’t you evoke the spirits of the net and use your Ouija board as a keyboard to find out what they mean? Don’t be lazy. Do your own research.
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cathopologist
Guest
Anyone can make this claim. The infamous Alberto Magno Romero Rivera is one such example.What about an ex-Catholic who spent 4 years in the seminary?
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cheese_sdc
Guest
Yes, but some can make it truthfully.
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cheese_sdc
Guest
True, they have the perfect circular argument:They would rather you not post…
If a person truly understands Catholicism, they never would leave.
A person leaves, therefore they didn’t understand.
It doesn’t matter whatever facts you can bring up, they (many of the Catholics on this board) they will still scream “You don’t understand.” Seminary education doesn’t penetrate their shield of fanaticism for the Church. Years spent teaching CCD and being educated at the Diocesian level won’t penetrate. Years of serve as a choir member doesn’t penetrate. Teaching RCIA doesn’t penetrate.
None of those things penetrate. I was as good a Catholic as you could be - practiced NFP, never missed Mass, did youth groups, RCIA, CCD, choir, etc.
Wake up people - it is possible to do all this, and then slowly come to understand the ridiculousness of it all!
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Frank_J
Guest
Hello,
I’m an Ex RC who converted to Eastern Orthodoxy 8 years ago. I may not an experts of Catholicism. What I am expert is what made me leave.
Lets start on Jazz Mass, Protestant type Mass, Altar girls, Nuns that don’t dress like religionist, communion hand.
I could also list far left bishops and their wack out statements that they make over the years. There is nore if you like me to list them all??
Petalling priest around who were sexual molesters and who used their position to attack the children they were in charge of.
I have audio tape of a former Priest in the RC Church talking about the rapped homosexual running in the RC Church. The tape was made in 1987. The Priest was a Fr John Keen who is now since pass on. The Priest said that one day that this would come down on Cardinal Law head and was found out to be right.
Fr John Keen was a Traditionist Priest who had an independent church in the West Roxbury area that would celebrate the Latin Tridentine Mass only. Just wanted to give you in short who Fr Keen was and his position in your church.
Have a great day.
Frank J.
I’m an Ex RC who converted to Eastern Orthodoxy 8 years ago. I may not an experts of Catholicism. What I am expert is what made me leave.
Lets start on Jazz Mass, Protestant type Mass, Altar girls, Nuns that don’t dress like religionist, communion hand.
I could also list far left bishops and their wack out statements that they make over the years. There is nore if you like me to list them all??
Petalling priest around who were sexual molesters and who used their position to attack the children they were in charge of.
I have audio tape of a former Priest in the RC Church talking about the rapped homosexual running in the RC Church. The tape was made in 1987. The Priest was a Fr John Keen who is now since pass on. The Priest said that one day that this would come down on Cardinal Law head and was found out to be right.
Fr John Keen was a Traditionist Priest who had an independent church in the West Roxbury area that would celebrate the Latin Tridentine Mass only. Just wanted to give you in short who Fr Keen was and his position in your church.
Have a great day.
Frank J.
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hays1122
Guest
I’m really sorry to hear of your hurt. And it’s understandable of course. The only thing is that you can not escape people who do horrible things. This church you are at now isn’t necessarily a safe place either. Satan is out to ruin God’s work. Satan and his “angels” are everywhere. This isn’t just happening in the RC. We have to be on guard,no matter where we are. Lets pray for the safety of children every where.
And other changes made in the service to attract young people,that’s also happening everywhere.
I’m sure those in charge believe they are doing something good if they bring in people that might otherwise stay away. What is best, leave those young people out doing evil or bringing them into church one way or another.
The church I attend sold the organ and brought in drums. Teenagers play praise music to the Lord. We have to imagine what they would be doing if it weren’t for this outlet.
Thank God for the good that has come from the past.
I’m glad you have found a place that serves your needs.
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