Ex-Catholics unable to get married?

[WholeHeart]

If you aren’t a practicing member of a church it really doesn’t matter what they believe about you. It really shouldn’t ruffle your feathers unless you believe that the Catholic Church has the authority to affect your marriage.

Well, it has the authority over most of my family to affect the way they view me, which could indirectly affect my marriage. No need to start out with the deck of family opinion stacked against us.

 

[KostyaJMJ]

Well, it has the authority over most of my family to affect the way they view me, which could indirectly affect my marriage. No need to start out with the deck of family opinion stacked against us.

So don’t tell them. Problem solved.

 

[WholeHeart]

So don’t tell them. Problem solved.

I’m not going to tell them, until after I find out what I’m going to do about it. But I’m also not going to assume that they’re uninformed enough to not find out on their own.

 

[CoffeeHound]

Well, seeing as I’ve been raised as a non-Catholic Christian, you’re going to have a hard time convincing me that I need to become formally Catholic to be right with God before I get married (Though I do agree that that should indeed be a prerequisite).

You are formally Catholic. You just need to talk to a priest to “get right with God” before your marriage, which you can have in a Catholic church regardless of how little time you claim to have (that’s not a valid excuse)

 

[WholeHeart]

You are formally Catholic. You just need to talk to a priest to “get right with God” before your marriage, which you can have in a Catholic church regardless of how little time you claim to have (that’s not a valid excuse)

Oh, well, let’s start by needing time for premarital counseling, which I’ve already started in the church in which I grew up. And time to reserve a building (not as easy as it sounds), and time to start over in planning the wedding. And time for whatever religious classes or whatnot I would be expected to go through. And time to convince my fiance to do the same. But that’s beside the point. I don’t want to be Catholic; I just want the Catholics to consider my marriage valid.

 

[joandarc2008]

Well, seeing as I’ve been raised as a non-Catholic Christian, you’re going to have a hard time convincing me that I need to become formally Catholic to be right with God before I get married (Though I do agree that that should indeed be a prerequisite). You might also say that my grandmother did me a disservice by forcing my parents to have me baptized Catholic, though I’m sure she meant to have me raised Catholic as well, and would have if she hadn’t died. It’s not my relationship with God that’s the trouble; it’s my peripheral relationship with the Catholic church. I know where I stand with God.

I would assume that that includes the Catholic church.

I am going explain it - All you need for a Catholic marriage is baptism - you have it - Peace be with you - your problem is solved.

 

[LilyM]

Oh, well, let’s start by needing time for premarital counseling, which I’ve already started in the church in which I grew up. And time to reserve a building (not as easy as it sounds), and time to start over in planning the wedding. And time for whatever religious classes or whatnot I would be expected to go through. And time to convince my fiance to do the same. But that’s beside the point. I don’t want to be Catholic; I just want the Catholics to consider my marriage valid.

I don’t think you’d be expected to go through any ‘religious classes’ above and beyond the ‘premarital counselling’, which I suspect covers things like the Catholic view of the sacrament of marriage.

Reserve a building? For a convalidation? You can have it done after a weekday Mass if you want, I’m sure there aren’t any queues to reserve weekdays!

Can’t convince your fiance? There’s something called ‘radical sanation’, which can be done unilaterally by the Catholic party to a mixed marriage alone, which might apply if your non-Catholic fiance has objections or reservations. Ask your priest about it.

 

[WholeHeart]

Reserve a building? For a convalidation? You can have it done after a weekday Mass if you want, I’m sure there aren’t any queues to reserve weekdays!

Can’t convince your fiance? There’s something called ‘radical sanation’, which can be done unilaterally by the Catholic party to a mixed marriage alone, which might apply if your non-Catholic fiance has objections or reservations. Ask your priest about it.

We’re not actually married yet. How can you convalidate what doesn’t exist? And I’m not wanting to convert, or marry in the Catholic church. I’m wanting to follow the original plan, get married in the church I grew up in, and go on with my life without causing unnecessary scandal to my Catholic family.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I’m not sure what forum to post in, except the Ask an Apologist, which has never given me any sort of answer for anything. So, rather than probably not get an answer at all, I decided to post in a more general forum as well. Anyway, here’s the problem.

I was baptized Catholic as a baby, but my parents left Catholicism when I was a preschooler and I was unaware that we ever had been Catholic until my late teens (years after I had chosen to be baptized in a different church). Never having considered myself Catholic, I am now engaged to another non-Catholic. Now, I’ve been reading on this website and others that I am now considered (by the Catholic church) to be bound to canon law in regards to marriage. I wouldn’t care about this for my own sake, obviously, but most of my extended family is still Catholic, and I would as soon not make my relatives think I were living in immorality. Am I seriously supposed to believe that the Catholic church would forbid me to ever marry at all, when I never had a First Communion, was never confirmed, and never considered myself Catholic? Will my Catholic relatives accept my upcoming marriage, or am I looking at even more separation than I’ve already grown up with (which, by the way, has often been extremely painful)?

Marriage in most Protestant churches is considered a valid marriage by the Catholic Church.

What your relatives might think is their problem. Are you getting married for their opinion, or because you love your future partner?

On the other hand, it seems to be that it would be hypocritical for you to insist on a Catholic marriage, when you claim to have never been a Catholic in practice.

 

[CoffeeHound]

Oh, well, let’s start by needing time for premarital counseling, which I’ve already started in the church in which I grew up. And time to reserve a building (not as easy as it sounds), and time to start over in planning the wedding. And time for whatever religious classes or whatnot I would be expected to go through. And time to convince my fiance to do the same. But that’s beside the point. I don’t want to be Catholic; I just want the Catholics to consider my marriage valid.

Premarital counseling can be done in a weekend. I did that. Reserving the building should just be a phone call if they have room. If they don’t try a nearby parish. You don’t have to go through religious classes and you don’t have to convince your fiance to go to any religious classes. There is plenty of time to have a valid Catholic wedding even if you’re getting married this upcoming Saturday. So stop using that as an excuse.

What you’re going to run into though is a problem when you go to a priest and say “I don’t want to be Catholic. I just want the Catholics to consider my marriage valid.” The Church won’t marry you if there is reason to believe that the children from the marriage will be raised in ignorance of Catholic teachings. From what you said, there is sufficient reason for concern. Don’t blame that on the priest to justify the situation to your family (“He refused to marry us because Bob is a protestant!” or “He refused to marry us because I wasn’t confirmed.” or “He refused to marry us and won’t tell us why.”), that’s on you.

Marriage in most Protestant churches is considered a valid marriage by the Catholic Church.

If two non-Catholics are married in the protestant church, it’s considered valid. If a Catholic marries outside of the Catholic Church without the proper dispensation, then that marriage suffers from a defect of form and is invalid, no?

 

[LilyM]

We’re not actually married yet. How can you convalidate what doesn’t exist? And I’m not wanting to convert, or marry in the Catholic church. I’m wanting to follow the original plan, get married in the church I grew up in, and go on with my life without causing unnecessary scandal to my Catholic family.

I didn’t mean to say convalidation - I meant the ceremony. I know a couple who got married very quietly on a Wednesday evening. I’m sure they didn’t have to reserve years ahead for that, nor fear not having the space free.

I never said you were wanting to convert. so why that comment?

 

[joandarc2008]

We’re not actually married yet. How can you convalidate what doesn’t exist? And I’m not wanting to convert, or marry in the Catholic church. I’m wanting to follow the original plan, get married in the church I grew up in, and go on with my life without causing unnecessary scandal to my Catholic family.

You already are Catholic - you were baptized Catholic - if you cannot convince you fiance then your best bet might be the radical sanitation after the fact which can take a while which will take a while - remember marriage does not require full receipt of the sacraments only baptism. Otherwise because of your baptism status you could just ask for dispensation now before the marriage and you may be required to go through part of the counseling prior to marriage in the Catholic Church.

To the poster that said mariage outsidethe Catholic Chuch is valid- it is between two Protestants - this is not the case here - OP was baptized Catholic.

 

[joandarc2008]

And you really have not answered the question as to why all this issue with the Catholic church to begin wtih?

 

[CoffeeHound]

And you really have not answered the question as to why all this issue with the Catholic church to begin wtih?

I don’t want to speak for the OP, but I think it’s pretty clear that she does not want a Catholic wedding, but her family is putting pressure on her. As a result, she’s seeking some way to have the wedding formally “approved” (or for an easy excuse) to appease the family members.

 

[WholeHeart]

It’s not that my family is pressuring me (I don’t think they even know about the new rule yet). It’s that they’re supporting me, and I don’t want them to regret it. (The family member who pressured my parents into a second wedding and having me baptized Catholic has been dead for years.)

I am not Catholic by any definition except that of the Catholic church, and not functionally Catholic at that. I repeat, I do not consider myself bound to canon law; however, if I can avoid giving offense, I am willing to ask “permission” from a group I don’t believe I need permission from. I’d go so far as to fill out paperwork or get extra counseling, but I wouldn’t go so far as to “reconcile” or to attempt a wedding in a church that I do not claim (yes, that would be hypocritical). I already have the date set and the (non-Catholic) church building reserved!

What I don’t understand is, if the Catholic church thinks I’m going to hell anyway, why does it care if I marry outside it or not? What possible purpose is served by declaring Protestant/Protestant marriages invalid due to the mere accident of one party having been Catholic for a few years after birth, a few years which that party did not choose and does not even remember? It is against all reason and all charity.

 

[Marie5890]

I admit I find myself confused.

You don’t consider yourself Catholic. Fine
Your family is being supportive of your marriage. Fine

What is the problem. Are you wanting to create a problem? Are you looking for something to get angry at?

I’m lost as to what the you see as the problem? From what I have read, you dont seem to have one.

 

[WholeHeart]

I admit I find myself confused.

You don’t consider yourself Catholic. Fine
Your family is being supportive of your marriage. Fine

What is the problem. Are you wanting to create a problem? Are you looking for something to get angry at?

I’m lost as to what the you see as the problem? From what I have read, you dont seem to have one.

I do take offense that anyone would consider my getting married immoral. And, while my family is supportive right now, the new rules mean that, from the official viewpoint, they probably shouldn’t be. If they don’t know that now, but they find out later, would that not be a problem? So, it’s not that there’s a problem right now, but that I want to avoid there being a problem later.

 

[Marie5890]

I do take offense that anyone would consider my getting married immoral. And, while my family is supportive right now, the new rules mean that, from the official viewpoint, they probably shouldn’t be. If they don’t know that now, but they find out later, would that not be a problem? So, it’s not that there’s a problem right now, but that I want to avoid there being a problem later.

It sounds like you are creating a problem in your own mind over something that may never happen.

It sounds like you are looking for a fight, something to get angry at with the Catholic church being the target.

I say put down you bow and arrow and focus on your up coming wedding and marriage.
If you are really that uptight about it, talk to a priest to find out what you need to do to deal with your concerns over the “what ifs” that seem to be plaguing your mind.

You seem so angry over something you dont believe in and in a future occurance that may or may not happen…

All this uptightness and anxiety over what you admit you dont believe in and in the fear of something possible occurance down the road, which in all probability will never happen.

But if it is really really knawing at your conscience, talk to a priest.

 

[Marie5890]

I should add that if you take offense over what others think, then your challenge is with your feelings, not with what others think.

Dont give other people that kind of power.

Blessing to you.

 

[WholeHeart]

Well, I wasn’t particularly angry until so many people just assumed I was Catholic and should be and wanted to be. At the beginning, it was mainly incredulity… Seriously, why? But I’ve struggled for years with the divisions caused by Catholic doctrine, and this new declaration doesn’t exactly help.