Ex-Catholics

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This to gh4:

I am perhaps as loyal and dedicated to the Cathloc faith as is possible, and that is said in preface to and in sad agreement with your disillusion with how you have been let down.

I have to say that the future of the church may well be much more in the lives, prayers, martrydom of the laity than it is in the hierarchy at this point in history, unless our beautiful new Pope Francis is able to, and will, purge it of its traitors and enemies within.

I am nothing less than appalled at the silence, the omission of LOUD AND CLEAR AND INSISTENT CONDEMNATION OF EVIL by the bishops, and under them, by her priests often not permitted to declare hard to hear things, at this time in our country and all over the western world, where church attendance and devotion have declined by some 70% in the last few decades.

The cover-ups, the failure to preach about the sins of cohabitation, missing mass, contraception, heresy being taught in our "Catholic"universities, inviting our Abortionist in Chief to a KOC dinner – such things cry to heaven for remedy, but we hear nothing.

For the life of me, I cannot recall the word ‘hell’ coming from the pulpit for many many years, yet the scripture readings on a daily basis akmost always distinguish the FEW chosen despite the MANY called. These omissions, much more subtle than outright heresy, are the root cause of the decline and fall of the American Empire, and just in case this isn’t recognized yet by anyone with his eyes open, it pays to look at the national debt clock for today ($17 T) and for unfunded liabilities of $100T and face their inevitable significance–a collapse and the victory of pure evil.

Last night on 60 Minutes, a national security expert made the point that our national security and survival depended on a healthy economy. And if you are a thinking person, it isnt hard to realize the relationship between a national moral ethos and what we have now where personal responsibility is being drowned by the false religion we actually follow. All traceable to A FAILURE OF THE VOICE OF JESUS CHRST TO BE SPOKEN BY THOSE PEOPLE CHOSEN BY HIM TO PROCLAIM RIGHT AND WRONG AND TO LEAD US.

Satan doesn’t dress himself in unattractive black, nor kill us by big obvious loud preannounced military attack, but rather by sweet, gradual, insidious, nearly undetectable mini-steps of moral erosion. God help us!

WHERE ARE THE BISHOPS???
 
Ex catholics that become fundamentalist
My personal experience is many are angry at their parents for failed marriages and broken homes and associate the Catholic Church with their broken childhood of divorce, alcoholism and criminal activity

Ex catholics that become secular liberals
They had an abortion, or knew someone that had one, cheated on their spouse, had children that live a disturbing life of drug use and open marriages, basically a life of sin and debouchery. And they are angry at the church for not approving of their sinful life
Actually NO. I’m uninvolved in any of those. So, again sweeping statement.
 
It is only foolhardy if one’s position is untenable.

If one’s position can stand scrutiny, then one ought to welcome the scrutiny. 🤷
Let’s be honest. Hasn’t it been decided in advance that any position that is not in agreement with Catholic teaching is untenable? That’s generally what happens in these discussions. What we get is that Catholics argue only from Catholic assumptions, and reject any arguments that do no proceed from Catholic assumptions, while Orthodox argue only from Orthodox assumptions, and reject any arguments that do not proceed from Orthodox assumption. So we end up with exercises in futility.
 
This to gh4:

I am perhaps as loyal and dedicated to the Cathloc faith as is possible, and that is said in preface to and in sad agreement with your disillusion with how you have been let down.

I have to say that the future of the church may well be much more in the lives, prayers, martrydom of the laity than it is in the hierarchy at this point in history, unless our beautiful new Pope Francis is able to, and will, purge it of its traitors and enemies within.

I am nothing less than appalled at the silence, the omission of LOUD AND CLEAR AND INSISTENT CONDEMNATION OF EVIL by the bishops, and under them, by her priests often not permitted to declare hard to hear things, at this time in our country and all over the western world, where church attendance and devotion have declined by some 70% in the last few decades.

The cover-ups, the failure to preach about the sins of cohabitation, missing mass, contraception, heresy being taught in our "Catholic"universities, inviting our Abortionist in Chief to a KOC dinner – such things cry to heaven for remedy, but we hear nothing.

For the life of me, I cannot recall the word ‘hell’ coming from the pulpit for many many years, yet the scripture readings on a daily basis akmost always distinguish the FEW chosen despite the MANY called. These omissions, much more subtle than outright heresy, are the root cause of the decline and fall of the American Empire, and just in case this isn’t recognized yet by anyone with his eyes open, it pays to look at the national debt clock for today ($17 T) and for unfunded liabilities of $100T and face their inevitable significance–a collapse and the victory of pure evil.

Last night on 60 Minutes, a national security expert made the point that our national security and survival depended on a healthy economy. And if you are a thinking person, it isnt hard to realize the relationship between a national moral ethos and what we have now where personal responsibility is being drowned by the false religion we actually follow. All traceable to A FAILURE OF THE VOICE OF JESUS CHRST TO BE SPOKEN BY THOSE PEOPLE CHOSEN BY HIM TO PROCLAIM RIGHT AND WRONG AND TO LEAD US.

Satan doesn’t dress himself in unattractive black, nor kill us by big obvious loud preannounced military attack, but rather by sweet, gradual, insidious, nearly undetectable mini-steps of moral erosion. God help us!

WHERE ARE THE BISHOPS???
The Church’s survival will always be in the “hands of the Pope” and those in union with him as he is guided by the Holy Spirit. That is the way Jesus set it up and that’s the way it will always be. Nothing has been able to destroy that for 2,000 years. How many faithful will be here at the second coming might surprise us all. The safest place in the world to be is with the Holy Father and the Sacraments of the One, Holy Catholic Church. God Bless, Memaw
 
Ryan:

“The Church’s survival” is intended to include a lot more people than a few who remain loyal, in case you imagine that “it’s OK if there are only a few left.” No, it is not OK, by a long shot, thank you very much.

I pick up that you did not even BEGIN to see the outrage and frustration I share with not a few of ‘the faithful’ who witness the deterioration from within on a daily basis even now, as well as the unbelievable loss of ‘popularity’ of Catholicism since V II.

All I can say is, “Wow!”
 
Ryan:

“The Church’s survival” is intended to include a lot more people than a few who remain loyal, in case you imagine that “it’s OK if there are only a few left.” No, it is not OK, by a long shot, thank you very much.

I pick up that you did not even BEGIN to see the outrage and frustration I share with not a few of ‘the faithful’ who witness the deterioration from within on a daily basis even now, as well as the unbelievable loss of ‘popularity’ of Catholicism since V II.

All I can say is, “Wow!”
Why is this being directed at me? Were you intending to respond to Memaw?
 
Let’s be honest. Hasn’t it been decided in advance that any position that is not in agreement with Catholic teaching is untenable?
Errr, no.

The point of any religious discussion is Truth, at least, it is for those who have an investment in logic and reason, as well as faith.

Thus, if truth is presented that is coherent, logical and well articulated, it ought to be examined by all of us here.
 
Why is this being directed at me? Were you intending to respond to Memaw?
OK where did I ever say there would only be a “few”!!! I think I said it would maybe surprise us all at how many there would be. Please read the posts correctly before you jump on ANYONE. God Bless, Memaw
 
That goes without saying, Memaw, but the Orthodox do not care too much about the Pope, so it is a non-starter for them. But even given that their Bishops can bind and loose without the Pope, this authority should not prevail in areas that that are against the command of Jesus like remarriages and divorces. But they do it anyway and I am still unable to rationalize it, me being not an Orthpodox notwithstanding.
I think I was talking to two Catholics when I made that response. God Bless, Memaw
 
OK where did I ever say there would only be a “few”!!! I think I said it would maybe surprise us all at how many there would be. Please read the posts correctly before you jump on ANYONE. God Bless, Memaw
Again, why is this being directed at me? I had nothing to do with this conversation.
 
Errr, no.

The point of any religious discussion is Truth, at least, it is for those who have an investment in logic and reason, as well as faith.

Thus, if truth is presented that is coherent, logical and well articulated, it ought to be examined by all of us here.
OK, then please provide me with a list of Orthodox teachings that are inconsistent with Catholic teaching that you are sincerely willing to consider as possibly being true, on their own merits, without reference to your Catholic assumptions and presuppositions? Or to put it another way, which Catholic teachings are you willing to consider as not being true?

Please don’t misunderstand me. I’m not saying you shouldn’t argue from your position as a faithful Catholic. My point is that we reach a place where bickering about doctrines where Catholics and Orthodox differ reaches a point where it’s an exercise in futility, since most Catholics are not going to budge on their Catholic assumptions, and most Orthodox are not going to budge on their Orthodox assumptions. Furthermore, the two traditions have pre-determined for their adherents the outcome to almost any theological dispute between the two traditions.
 
OK, then please provide me with a list of Orthodox teachings that are inconsistent with Catholic teaching that you are sincerely willing to consider as possibly being true, on their own merits, without reference to your Catholic assumptions and presuppositions? Or to put it another way, which Catholic teachings are you willing to consider as not being true?
I don’t have a list.

But if I am in a dialogue with an Orthodox Christian I will certainly entertain any of his arguments and consider them on their merits.

That’s the point of religious discourse here on the CAFs.

It seems inutile to come to the CAFs and then propose, “Dialogue here is an ‘exercise in futility’.”

Only if one is impervious to reasoned dialogue and constructive criticism is it futile.
Please don’t misunderstand me. I’m not saying you shouldn’t argue from your position as a faithful Catholic. My point is that we reach a place where bickering about doctrines where Catholics and Orthodox differ reaches a point where it’s an exercise in futility, since most Catholics are not going to budge on their Catholic assumptions, and most Orthodox are not going to budge on their Orthodox assumptions
Well, bickering is always bad. I never bicker. 🤷
 
I don’t have a list.

But if I am in a dialogue with an Orthodox Christian I will certainly entertain any of his arguments and consider them on their merits.

That’s the point of religious discourse here on the CAFs.

It seems inutile to come to the CAFs and then propose, “Dialogue here is an ‘exercise in futility’.”

Only if one is impervious to reasoned dialogue and constructive criticism is it futile.

Well, bickering is always bad. I never bicker. 🤷
I used to be a bicker until the front brakes on my bicke got stuck and I fell on my face. I’m not a bicker anymore, I sold my bicke. 😃
 
We have many ex Roman catholics in our Episcopal Church-they do not as far as I know attack the RC Church-most express a fondness for it-I have not heard one outright attack

I have not taken a poll but most have “moved on” often due to a spouse -birth control & women issues

Ex Catholics make very good Episcopaleans

:cool:
 
Oh but you did, you send Geo.14 onto me with the “few” remark and I never said it. God Bless, Memaw
No, I had nothing to do with this conversation between you and Geo.14, except that he addressed a mark to me that was part an exchange between the two of you–an exchange with which I was not involved. BTW, I never said anything about you saying “few.” That claim was made by Geo.14. I was mistakenly pulled into this argument between the two of you. I wasn’t involved with it, and I’ve attributed nothing to either of you. I merely asked him to clarify if his comment was directed towards you (and he confirmed that it was), instead of me.
 
No, I had nothing to do with this conversation between you and Geo.14, except that he addressed a mark to me that was part an exchange between the two of you–an exchange with which I was not involved. BTW, I never said anything about you saying “few.” That claim was made by Geo.14. I was mistakenly pulled into this argument between the two of you. I wasn’t involved with it, and I’ve attributed nothing to either of you. I merely asked him to clarify if his comment was directed towards you (and he confirmed that it was), instead of me.
I must have stirred up something without intending ANYthing unkind or insensitive.

I am all about ideas and the search for truth; sorry for anything unintended here.

My issue in all of this thread is that the bishops of the Catholic Church are responsible for so many people leaving the church because of its failure to YELL LOUD ENOUGH OF THE HONOR DUE TO ALMIGHTY GOD AND OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR OMISSION TO TALK ABOUT HEAVEN AND HELL, FINAL JUDGMENT, SIN, AND TO ACTIVELY AND BOLDLY CONDEMN THE IMMORALITY THAT HAS INFECTED OUR CULTURE. THEIR omissions are the reason for the fall of the Empire of the United States and for people leaving the church in droves. My stuff is not about the differences in theology about the papacy…

OF COURSE people leave the church: it has no backbone, no reason to champion it, no heroes to love and emulate: its main spokesmen are wimps who live in castles and hide behind censors who do not allow the outrage of the public to reach their ears while they go about in favored lifestyles and luxury.

God be thanked for Pope Francis!!!
 
Second warning.
Leave personal agendas and personal remarks at the door of this thread.
Stay on the topic of the OP
 
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