Ex-Catholics

[Emese]

No it isn’t, as a matter of fact a priest must be reasonably sure that the baby will be raised in the Church and that the parents take that responsibility seriously or he is not supposed to baptize it. They shouldn’t just baptize a baby nilly willy, no matter what. And it wasn’t the priest that walked away it was the mother. He was willing to work with her. Jesus allowed many people to walk away.If we know our faith, then we know a lay person can only baptize someone in case of emergency and NOT just because you want to. That ladies situation was not extreme.
Dying on a battle field or any where else for that matter is a much different thing. God Bless, Memaw

No he does not have to make sure about anything regarding the parents. Our priest explained it very well, that the baptism is about the child and not the parents. It is in the child’s interest to be baptised, and he always looks at the child’s interest first. He never turns an innocent baby away because of his/her parents.

 

[Memaw]

No he does not have to make sure about anything regarding the parents. Our priest explained it very well, that the baptism is about the child and not the parents. It is in the child’s interest to be baptized, and he always looks at the child’s interest first. He never turns an innocent baby away because of his/her parents.

I disagree, I used to teach the Parents Baptismal class and if I had any reason at all to doubt the parents sincerity, I had to let Fr. handle it to determine if the Baptism should take place. I had a brother and sister-in-law who were refused baptism for their baby because the mother was not co-operating. A grandparent cannot have a Grandchild Baptized against the parents wishes. Another brother who wasn’t practicing his faith at the time, adopted a grandchild and Fr. made him promise he would start coming to Mass on Sunday and raise her in the faith BEFORE he would agree to Baptize her. There are several other instances when the Priest must refuse to Baptize an infant. .We really need to know what were talking about before we try to advise someone on such serious matters. God Bless. Memaw

 

[Emese]

I disagree, I used to teach the Parents Baptismal class and if I had any reason at all to doubt the parents sincerity, I had to let Fr. handle it to determine if the Baptism should take place. I had a brother and sister-in-law who were refused baptism for their baby because the mother was not co-operating. A grandparent cannot have a Grandchild Baptized against the parents wishes. Another brother who wasn’t practicing his faith at the time, adopted a grandchild and Fr. made him promise he would start coming to Mass on Sunday and raise her in the faith BEFORE he would agree to Baptize her. There are several other instances when the Priest must refuse to Baptize an infant. .We really need to know what were talking about before we try to advise someone on such serious matters. God Bless. Memaw

It just seems strange that your church holds such different views about something this serious…What you describe does not seem to be the practise elsewhere…

I’ve had 2 children baptised in 2 different European countries and I’ve lived in many places so I know other catholic churches from around the world as well.

 

[Memaw]

It just seems strange that your church holds such different views about something this serious…What you describe does not seem to be the practise elsewhere…

I’ve had 2 children baptised in 2 different European countries and I’ve lived in many places so I know other catholic churches from around the world as well.

The examples I gave were all from different times, Parishes and Priests. What some priests do and what some countries do may not always be in line with what the Church teaches. I think we all know that is sadly how things are today. I stand behind everything I said in my Post. Please pray for our priests and for Holy vocations. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Emese]

The examples I gave were all from different times, Parishes and Priests. What some priests do and what some countries do may not always be in line with what the Church teaches. I think we all know that is sadly how things are today. I stand behind everything I said in my Post. Please pray for our priests and for Holy vocations. God Bless, Memaw

Can I ask which country/town you are talking about that has this practise you described? You can pm me if you prefer.

 

[Memaw]

Can I ask which country/town you are talking about that has this practise you described? You can pm me if you prefer.

What difference does that make??? You can ask one of the priests on this forum if you are interested in the truth. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Emese]

What difference does that make??? You can ask one of the priests on this forum if you are interested in the truth. God Bless, Memaw

I don’t think the priests here will know where you live.
We are not talking about the “truth” we are talking about the difference in practises within the C. Church.

I’m sure you are aware that according to the teachings of the catholic church baptism removes the original sin which would prevent us from going to heaven. So denying an innocent child the sacrament of baptism is like putting his/her soul’s eternal life in danger. So yes, it is a serious matter.

 

[Amo_a_Jesus]

I want to share two comments i hear from people i know, of the reasons why they change church… the mass is to boring, and the other one was we used to be Catholics, but my kids love the “other” church and now we all love it.
Oh and i can go on, my father find a church where music make him cry, and he gets “prophecy” my ex-girlfriend loves her church because they have a child-care so she can listen the service, or because they do a cool beach baptism, they own a cool radio station, and her pastor is really funny, a friend of mine like the ones they are exactly one hour, if is more then that no good “church” for him no matter what. some others likes to have snakes at their service that is cool, I’m sorry i don’t want to judge people but most of the ones who “change” church are ignorant of the church,… what about those that say when i was Catholic i used to … drink, smoke, do drugs…etc

 

[Memaw]

I don’t think the priests here will know where you live.
We are not talking about the “truth” we are talking about the difference in practises within the C. Church.

I’m sure you are aware that according to the teachings of the catholic church baptism removes the original sin which would prevent us from going to heaven. So denying an innocent child the sacrament of baptism is like putting his/her soul’s eternal life in danger. So yes, it is a serious matter.

Now you sound like my brother when he tried to argue with the priest instead of working with him. Like I said before, it is up to the priest in being as sure as possible that the baby will be raised in the Catholic Faith. I’m very aware of the Churches teaching on Baptism removing Original sin and all sin. I told you I taught the Baptismal classes. God Bless, Memaw

 

[ffg]

I’m sure you are aware that according to the teachings of the catholic church baptism removes the original sin which would prevent us from going to heaven. So denying an innocent child the sacrament of baptism is like putting his/her soul’s eternal life in danger. So yes, it is a serious matter.

The stain of OS is so widely misunderstood.

For some reason, though we are taught to use Faith and Reason, people choose to ignore reason in their faith formation.

Though we can be affected by the actions of others, we will be judged on OUR sins, not those of others.

We place our hope in the Mercy of God for all souls since we are not privy to the closed circuit TV’s of judgement.

Using the information revealed by God, if he was typing on this board, he would laugh at us for thinking OS caused damnation for a person with no sins and before the ability to sin.

 

[Emese]

Now you sound like my brother when he tried to argue with the priest instead of working with him. Like I said before, it is up to the priest in being as sure as possible that the baby will be raised in the Catholic Faith. I’m very aware of the Churches teaching on Baptism removing Original sin and all sin. I told you I taught the Baptismal classes. God Bless, Memaw

It sounds to me that you are the one arguing with the priests, the church. And it seems that you are trying to tell me that your priest you agree with is right whilst all the rest of the catholic church from around the world is wrong.

 

[Emese]

The stain of OS is so widely misunderstood.

For some reason, though we are taught to use Faith and Reason, people choose to ignore reason in their faith formation.

Though we can be affected by the actions of others, we will be judged on OUR sins, not those of others.

We place our hope in the Mercy of God for all souls since we are not privy to the closed circuit TV’s of judgement.

Using the information revealed by God, if he was typing on this board, he would laugh at us for thinking OS caused damnation for a person with no sins and before the ability to sin.

Yes. Some consistency wouldn’t hurt…

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Absolutely!
Prayers for you said.
Mary.

I understand, my second husband and I went thru it and we had to wait for 2 years as it had to go to Rome then. His papers were signed by Pope Paul VI. I was widowed and he had been married before but never baptized. He received the Pauline Privilege. But it was worth every minute of that wait to have it right. It is much faster today as I have walked thru it with a couple of friends and one was only about 6 weeks and another about 4 months. The Church is a Wise Mother and cares for her children in the right way. Yes we must be patient with Her as She carefully guides us thru life. God Bless, Memaw

Thanks and God Bless you.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Already falling back to that defense? The philosopher in me would love to chase you down that rabbit hole,

That is not a rabbit hole. It is part of the narrow gate.

 

[Memaw]

I don’t think the priests here will know where you live.
We are not talking about the “truth” we are talking about the difference in practises within the C. Church.

I’m sure you are aware that according to the teachings of the catholic church baptism removes the original sin which would prevent us from going to heaven. So denying an innocent child the sacrament of baptism is like putting his/her soul’s eternal life in danger. So yes, it is a serious matter.

I don’t know about you but I AM talking about the “TRUTH”. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Peter_J]

I have a hard time acceding to a group of men who contradict the teachings of Christ.

What you have professed is that the Orthodox church can contravene any of the teachings of the Apostles under the pretense of “the power to bind and loose”.

This, IMHO, is a perversion of the concept. The Apostles and their successors can never profess anything contrary to the Faith, given once for all, under the “power to bind and loose”.

What you have done is given permission for your church to say, for example, “We now declare that Mary is the 4th person of the Godhead! We proclaim this in order to prevent the greater sin of idolatry” and that you would now have to submit to this teaching.

As a Catholic who has a lot of respect for the Orthodox, I feel a duty to tell you that I find this ^^ post offensive as well as illogical.

The foolhardiness of arguing in favor of Orthodoxy on a Roman Catholic board has finally sunk in.

I’m sure you aren’t the first to feel that way. But speaking as a Catholic who has spent a good deal of time on an Orthodox forum, the grass isn’t always green on that side of the fence either.

 

[Peter_J]

Why do ex-Catholics attack the Church?

Are you looking for reasons concerning ex-Catholics specifically? I mean, reasons for ex-Catholics attacking Catholicism, that would not also apply to e.g. ex-Methodists attacking Methodism?

 

[PRmerger]

As a Catholic who has a lot of respect for the Orthodox, I feel a duty to tell you that I find this ^^ post offensive as well as illogical.

No offense was intended, to be sure.

I, too, have a lot of respect for the Orthodox Church.

However, that does not change the fact that the paradigm that was presented by the other poster asserts itself in this manner. It does indeed give the men the power to declare such outrageous claims.

 

[George14]

In recent experience I have come to realize a truth, a principle, that solidifies certain doctrines in a way that eliminates confusion and doubt for me.

It helps to make this point with a comparison, the point being that truth is not something devised by dictum, or created as we go along. Let’s say there is a tree in my yard. It is a “pre - existent reality, fact , or truth.” If I report it to someone, I am simply a reporter of truth, not a creator of it. If I dont know it’s there because I was blind, it doesn’t alter the truth that it was there.

The Church’s mission is to communicate existing facts, truths, realities. She doesn’t come up with Her dicta out of a clear blue sky. And any truth or fact that She reports at any time that wasn’t reported earlier does not mean it is a new reality, but rather that it simply hadn’t been told before.

When Jesus on the cross said to John, “Behold your mother,” for example, He was not newly creating a reality, but only reporting something already preexistant but unknown to us. He revealed it at that time-- He didn’t establish it from that moment!

This realization gives me confidence that Jesus’s promise to be with His church and that was codified as the early councils interpreted it to mean it would only be allowed officially to teach and declare the existence of realities and truths assures me of the credibility of her ex-cathedra teachings, not because the men speaking for Him were smart or wise, but because He is God and is believable. So I believe in the Holy Catholic Church because of Jesus’ word, not because of Her scholarship or the moral perfection of its spokesmen.

This is subtle, but for me, the awareness of that conceptualization was huge. It also renders much more significant how those things we do get written in permanent memory in the book of life (you can’t unring a bell…), the realization of which brings me up short in the face of my own actions and omissions. THEY REMAIN IN MEMORY, so I will have to answer for them at judgment. It’s through God’s mercy that we have an opportunity to repent before it’s too late…

Truth reported by the Church is just that: preexistant conditions. So in summary, ex-catholics may just happen to be made up of people who never had this true faith to begin with. I venture to say that they simply were never ‘truly’ Catholic despite having hung out there at some time. How can you both believe something and then not believe it later? If you did believe God said something, you have to stop believing God to ‘leave.’ Let’s say that a lot of people ‘hang out there’ but are not at the point where they recognize God’s place in it all. Creeds are recited from rote, not from conviction.

 

[Emese]

I don’t know about you but I AM talking about the “TRUTH”. God Bless, Memaw

You’ve said nothing about The Truth. You’re just talking about your parish.