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GungHo
Guest
Brother…the light has just gotten brighter!
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GungHo
Guest
You know, I could be wrong (but I seriously doubt it) that what I’m about to tell you would never have happened at a Catholic Church…
This was just a few years ago, and was one of if not THE straw that really hurt the camel…
Like I have said before, I had been going my own way more or less for about 10 years…fade mode. I had quit going out in field service, answering at meetings, or giving talks. I was just there with the wife, and nothing more. I had come to view the meetings as a serious waste of my time, so I just quit paying attention and brought my notebook with me to plan out my next week or just doodle. Then the following happened. - My Dad passed away. It was the worst time in my life. I had been there for him, and held his hand as his eyes glazed over and his hand went limp. I was just about a total wreck, with taking care of my Mom and helping her do all that was needed. So just TWO weeks after I held my Dads hand as he passed, I was at the Sunday meeting. I sat in the back, with my Mom on one side, and an Elder (who was well aware that my Dad had just died) on the other side of me. I had more on my mind than usual, and was making many notes in my notebook. After the final prayer this “brother” turns to me and says…“You are one strange fellow.” (at first I thought he was making a joke) then he continued… “Why do you bother coming to the meetings if you are not going to pay attention!” I looked him right in the eye and said “I have no idea. I’ll make sure to think about it.” - Can’t you just FEEL the love these people have?
BTW, at the time I could not tell him the truth and why I was at the meetings…that truth was that I was not yet ready to be “cut-off” from my previous life, and I did not want to break my Moms heart.
Now my Mom is gone, and I just don’t care anymore.
This was just a few years ago, and was one of if not THE straw that really hurt the camel…
Like I have said before, I had been going my own way more or less for about 10 years…fade mode. I had quit going out in field service, answering at meetings, or giving talks. I was just there with the wife, and nothing more. I had come to view the meetings as a serious waste of my time, so I just quit paying attention and brought my notebook with me to plan out my next week or just doodle. Then the following happened. - My Dad passed away. It was the worst time in my life. I had been there for him, and held his hand as his eyes glazed over and his hand went limp. I was just about a total wreck, with taking care of my Mom and helping her do all that was needed. So just TWO weeks after I held my Dads hand as he passed, I was at the Sunday meeting. I sat in the back, with my Mom on one side, and an Elder (who was well aware that my Dad had just died) on the other side of me. I had more on my mind than usual, and was making many notes in my notebook. After the final prayer this “brother” turns to me and says…“You are one strange fellow.” (at first I thought he was making a joke) then he continued… “Why do you bother coming to the meetings if you are not going to pay attention!” I looked him right in the eye and said “I have no idea. I’ll make sure to think about it.” - Can’t you just FEEL the love these people have?
BTW, at the time I could not tell him the truth and why I was at the meetings…that truth was that I was not yet ready to be “cut-off” from my previous life, and I did not want to break my Moms heart.
Now my Mom is gone, and I just don’t care anymore.
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GungHo
Guest
And get this…from time to time I get very sad about not having my Mom and Dad around anymore. But I have learned that I cannot show this around my wife. The first and last time I told my wife how much I missed my Mom, she say’s…“but if you only came back to the meetings, and got strong in “the truth” again, you could see her in the “new system”…you know she is going to be heartbroke if your not there.”
And I found that this was a common tactic. I got hit with it several times by different people, once even at her memorial.
And I found that this was a common tactic. I got hit with it several times by different people, once even at her memorial.
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Jaypeeto3
Guest
Hi GungHo,
did your congregation experience the anti-SMURF
hysteria of the early to mid 1980s???
Mine sure did.
Jaypeeto3 (aka Jaypeeto4)
did your congregation experience the anti-SMURF
hysteria of the early to mid 1980s???
Mine sure did.
Jaypeeto3 (aka Jaypeeto4)
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GungHo
Guest
Yup. But I never did see one jump up and run down the isle myself. 
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catsrus
Guest
Gungho, I’m sorry about your folks and how there was no emotional support for you.
When I spent time with these people, I overheard a discusion between a couple jws that sort of went like this:
jw#1 “You know so and so’s mother died last week?”
jw#2 “Yes, I heard. I also heard that she is crying a lot and hasn’t been out in service since.” (1 WEEK after this death!!!)
jw#1 “I also heard that elder so and so is going over today to see her and explain that she is overreacting and making a stain upon us for this showy grief.”
jws believe that you should be HAPPY someone died as they will miss the great tribulation and live in “the new system” forever on Earth. So why would you even be upset? Rejoice!
When I spent time with these people, I overheard a discusion between a couple jws that sort of went like this:
jw#1 “You know so and so’s mother died last week?”
jw#2 “Yes, I heard. I also heard that she is crying a lot and hasn’t been out in service since.” (1 WEEK after this death!!!)
jw#1 “I also heard that elder so and so is going over today to see her and explain that she is overreacting and making a stain upon us for this showy grief.”
jws believe that you should be HAPPY someone died as they will miss the great tribulation and live in “the new system” forever on Earth. So why would you even be upset? Rejoice!
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Protestant101
Guest
That’s no worse than Catholics and many Protestants being “happy” when someone dies, because “they went to heaven.”
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Protestant101
Guest
No; I don’t need to lighten up at all; quite the opposite. You and others here are embellishing the innacurate doctrines of JWs with very harsh characterizations that just canot be counted as truth. I know their doctrines very well, have studied with JWs and their Elders in 3 provinces for over 20 years. They do not engender hatred and they do not officially teach as certain ones here are trying to intimate.
The portrayals here of how they conduct their meetings is somewhat accurate; although it can hardly be classed as “mind-control.” I have sat in on such meeting in their Kingdom Halls; and it seems to me that their intention is to not have the train of thought interupted in what they are trying to teach when they are up front. The last time I went to one of their meetings, the Elders were very accomodating in spending time with me after the service to answer my questions.
I understand well why people would want to leave this denomination. And I applaud them doing so. I just don’t understand why all the malicious characterizations of the denomination, just because of the few who are truly fanatical. There are fanatics in every denomination.
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GungHo
Guest
I really hope you are not refering to me. If you are, you just do not not what your talking about.
And BTW, if you are a “team player” and just swallow all of their false teaching without a burp, then you will be just fine. However, show a free spirit and they will attempt to crush you. So you studied right? Well, then you have seen only the good side, and the “love bombing.” You really don’t have a clue as to what goes on, until you have been in a long time.
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GungHo
Guest
They are a HIGH CONTROL group, and they use their power to break up families. They do much more, but isn’t this thing alone enough to make some hate them?
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Protestant101
Guest
There are other examples of “High Control” groups. How about denominations that make it a sin to not attend Mass on Sundays? But, even so, since when does that make them out to be “promoting hatred?” This is grossly exaggerated.
As I said; I have spent a lot of time with JWs over a number of years. I have encountered a bit of what you say with individuals; but not with the denomination as a whole. They are actually a lot nicer than many will admit. It is one thing to hate ideas; quite another to hate people.
Regardless of your experience with JWs; it is your choice whether to hate them or hate their ideas.
BTW; “bullets” (hatred) cannot kill ideas. You have had a bad experience with them; but you need to get it in perspective.
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Nan_S
Guest
In kindness,
It is tempting to describe a denomination as any church using the Holy Bible, even the mistranslated New World Translation.
I do not concur with your describing the JWs as a demomination, as if they were another branch of Christianity. I am rather hard-pressed to call them Christian at all, because of their denial that Jesus Christ is God.
Jehovah’s Witnesses are a separate church. Mormons are another separate church.
Catholics and Orthodox consider themselves each to be a separate church, and a separate branch of Christianity, although closely related to each other. At present we are in reunification talks, and may see them come to fruition within the next few generations.
Neither Catholics nor Orthodox have denominations. Catholics have different rites (Roman, Armenian, Eastern, and others) and Orthodox have different national churches (Greek, Russian, Ukranian, and others). But they do not have denominational groups, nor are they a denomination in and of themselves.
Protestants are a third branch of Christianity with many denominations and independent non-denominational groups under the umbrella of Protestantism.
Nan
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Nan_S
Guest
A Catholic who receives the Sacrament of Confirmation voluntarily makes the commitment to God that he will worship God in community with the Church on Sundays and designated Holy Days of Obligation.
The sin is not really the act of not walking in the door. The sin is the violation of the commitment you have voluntarily, and with full awareness, made to God.
Nan
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Protestant101
Guest
Actually NanS; I am in agreement with most of your statement. I have been in the habit of calling them a denomination; because I have not yet figured out what to call them. I just know they are not Christian; although they share some christian moral practices.
The only thing I am trying to stress here is to draw the line at promoting hatred of JWs under the guise of them promoting hatred. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
People who exit from a given religious group tend to be very hard on the group after they leave. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not promote the breaking up of families any mmore than many other groups/members who “stand fast” when a spouse challenges the status quo.
Christians don’t do any different when a spouse leaves the church. Do we then say that “Christianity breaks up families,” just because one spouse leaves the Church, and the other one won’t?
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GungHo
Guest
Hmmmmm…well do they disfellowship you for it and cut you off from your family and friends? Make it so they will not eat with you, or give you a greeting even?
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GungHo
Guest
Yeah…right. Tell that to my sisters, and my sons.
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GungHo
Guest
Well…today I ordered my RSV from Amazon. I got the compact leather Catholic version. I think I’m going to get a few more of them too…one for my backpack at least.
I also called up the Diocese in San Jose. They put me in contact with a Priest in my area. I’m going to meet with him next week.
On a side note…where do Catholics stand on fine cigars? I like to have a really fine one with some 18 year old scotch when I go camping once or twice a year.
My Dad used to say that life was too short for cheap scotch and cheap cigars.
I also called up the Diocese in San Jose. They put me in contact with a Priest in my area. I’m going to meet with him next week.
On a side note…where do Catholics stand on fine cigars? I like to have a really fine one with some 18 year old scotch when I go camping once or twice a year.
My Dad used to say that life was too short for cheap scotch and cheap cigars.
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Nan_S
Guest
That’s such a sad situation. Out of fear of contamination, they purge themselves of anything less than perfect in their eyes. It reminds me of the original Star Trek episode with the Nomad probe wanting to sanitize or destroy anything less than perfect.
Catholics who sin, even commit henious sins, are welcomed back in the church door every week. How are we to expect them to come back to God if we push them away? However, Catholics who have committed extremely serious sins are required to express their repentance in the Sacrament of Reconciliation before being allowed to partake of the Body and Blood of Christ in Holy Communion.
As Jesus Christ said:
Luke 5:29-32 Levi made Jesus a great feast in his house; and there was a large company of tax collectors and others sitting at table with them. And the Pharisees and their scribes murmured against his disciples, saying, “Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?” And Jesus answered them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
It all harkens back to the parables of the Lost Sheep and the Prodigal Son in Luke Chapter 15.
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RNRobert
Guest
As Nan pointed out:
Nan S:
However, as a Catholic, I never had a priest or a member of my parish demand to know why I missed Mass, nor has the priest or anyone in my parish ever done the things that Gung Ho and other ex JWs on this forum mention.
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