Ex-wife sleeps with 13 year old son in the same bed

  • Thread starter Thread starter Armor_of_Light
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
It is not appropriate for a loving mother to allow or invite her son to sleep with her. It is not appropriate for a loving father to allow or invite his daughter to sleep with him. Get it?
SAYS WHO? You and a bunch of other people with a stick up your rear end? It seems FINE to me! Just because YOU are too close-minded to realize the rest of the world isn’t like you doesn’t mean it’s not true!

I hate you all. I have for years. Now you’re proving more and more WHY I hate you! How disgusting, all of you! You wouldn’t know REAL child abuse if it smacked you across your thighs with a whip!

OH BOO HOO look at how this poor boy is abused!

WHATEVER. All I see is a wonderful Mom who loves her son in a perfectly fine and appropriate way
 
Her 13 year old son, to be specific.

Boundary violations all around. If Mom can’t see that, she needs help. I can’t remember which of my sons asked to sleep in my bed once when my husband was out of town, “to keep you company, Mommy.” This was when the son was maybe 7 or 8? I actually thought about it, because I did love to cuddle with them and love on them, then said, “That’s OK, I’m just fine, we all sleep in our own beds.” They knew they could come into our bedroom if they needed us, but that sharing our bed was not an option. If they were sick I would keep them company in their room or they could be on a pallet next to the bed (but as far as I remember we never did that).

And at 13, if one of them had asked to sleep with me, I would have really wondered what the heck was going on, and we’d have had to talk. They both put distance between us at that point, and while it hurt me in a way, I totally understood their need to separate from me and be with other males and their dad. I can’t teach them how to be men, any more than my own father could teach me to be a woman.
If you were MY mother I would have bawled myself to sleep that night wondering why my mother hated me so much. You’re a hold hearted *****! Maybe someone should call CPS on YOU, you unloving ice queen!
 
Her 13 year old son, to be specific.

Boundary violations all around. If Mom can’t see that, she needs help. I can’t remember which of my sons asked to sleep in my bed once when my husband was out of town, “to keep you company, Mommy.” This was when the son was maybe 7 or 8?..And at 13, if one of them had asked to sleep with me, I would have really wondered what the heck was going on, and we’d have had to talk…
I agree with you mostly, but I want to clarify: I don’t have any problem (and I don’t think you’d have a problem) with a 13 year old wanting to sleep with anyone, even his mom, and especially not one who has a history of being the sensitve or cuddly type. Thirteen year olds can be indiscriminately cuddly creatures, and there is nothing abnormal about that, and it is no cause for alarm unless perhaps it shows a sudden change in temperament. I do not have problem with a 13 year old wanting hugs and kisses from his mother, or getting them. I don’t think there is evil in sleeping in a large familial heap in one room, but I also don’t think it holds a magic beyond that inherent in a family that is close in other ways.

As for distance between mother and son, when my boys were fourth graders I let it be known that they were going to go through a time when many people want more distance from their parents, and I did not want to put them on the spot to tell me to back off. On that account, I told them that I would leave them to initiate all public displays of affection, because they were becoming young men. I think they kind of liked that, actually. They still give me a hug and occasionally a kiss when I drop them off at school, and yes, they are 13. They know, though, that they have the power to set the distance, and that distance does not imply a drop-off in affection on my part, or theirs. It comes from my respect for their growing status as independent men who are destined and competent to find their own course in life.

That is the one good thing about this situation: It does seem to be initiated by the 13 year old. That doesn’t mean I don’t think the mother needs to intervene with a wiser head, but at least she’s not the one pushing for this.

I do think there are real dangers in a 13 year old sleeping alone with his mother when his dad is totally out of the picture and his brother is sleeping elsewhere. First off, the young man is going through puberty, he is going to have thoughts going through his head and things happening with his body that are entirely beyond his control. These can be very upsetting, and feeling these towards one’s mother can be upsetting many times over. IOW, he needs (or soon will need) some amount of privacy from his mother, whether he knows it or not.

Secondly, though, her emotional support of him needs to be very much different from the “grooming” behaviors that happen as a pretext to sexual abuse. She ought not withdraw her emotional connections or support–far from it!–but rather ought to put the same kind of boundaries that would have been appropriate when she and any brothers she had became teens, or between her and her dad. There ought to be only true spouses in a family, and no quasi-spouses. The ex-wife has to be very careful to not let her relationship with their son because quasi-marital, and she has to realize that what is not quasi-marital for her may be something quite different for an adolescent son who loves her beyond all other women. (Again, such quasi-marital relationships need not be sexual, but can also be emotional.)

If the mother really thinks the boy would benefit from sleeping near her, I’d at least make it an occasional arrangement where his brother is there, too. I do not think it harms a boy to say, “you’re getting to be a man, and we need to make sure you have the privacy you need and that your mom does not impinge on the developing emotional space in your heart that will one day belong to your wife.” That is a lot different from saying, “don’t feel insecure, be a man”. Adolescence is a hair-raising ride for many of us, so shaming needs to be avoided entirely. Nature will provide enough inner uncertainty all on its own. Still, the young man should not feel he’s getting “exclusive” access to his mother in such an intimate setting. That is not a good precedent to set. Besides, the two boys may have to take care of her together some day, and their relationship with her should in no way undermind their mutual support of each other, but rather should enhance it.

At any rate, the boy’s father is still his father. He hasn’t given up the duty to give direction to the young man’s upbringing, and he cannot decide willy-nilly to abdicate that duty entirely to his ex-wife. He has to co-parent with his ex-wife, but he is still bound to be a parent and to make decisions a parent has to make. He can neither plunge in like a wounded animal or turn and run like a scared one. As the young man grows, Dad will have him to answer to, after all. The father needs to be able to say to his son (and to his mirror) that none of his mistakes were due to lack of diligence.

As for therapy, it would be good if the boy simply had a neutral and discrete party to talk to, an adult who has no dog in this fight who that he can unload to without taking either “side” and setting off a round of battles between his parents. If that context could be provided, it would be a good thing, I’d think. The parents might simply ask the boy for a list of five people he’d feel comfortable talking about things that he decides he doesn’t want to bring up with his parents, and arrange for him to be able to talk with someone on that list whenever he wants, permission given in advance, no questions asked. Our boys have that and, again, I think they like it, even though they haven’t used it (that I know of).
 
You are younger than 13 and a male? There’s no problem if you are a female. You write very well so I’m assuming you’re close to being a teenager which now makes me wonder what you’re doing on this thread. No more sleeping with Grandma. You’re a big boy not a kid.

If you’re saying you are older than a teenager and bunking with grandma, you need to go sleep on the couch or floor.
LOOK AT HOW OPEN MINDED I AM! I’m telling a grown man what he should and should not do, even though I know nothing of his culture, background, or who he is! because obviously if it’s wierd to e, it’s wrong!
 
SAYS WHO? You and a bunch of other people with a stick up your rear end? It seems FINE to me! Just because YOU are too close-minded to realize the rest of the world isn’t like you doesn’t mean it’s not true!

I hate you all. I have for years. Now you’re proving more and more WHY I hate you! How disgusting, all of you! You wouldn’t know REAL child abuse if it smacked you across your thighs with a whip!

OH BOO HOO look at how this poor boy is abused!

WHATEVER. All I see is a wonderful Mom who loves her son in a perfectly fine and appropriate way
If you were MY mother I would have bawled myself to sleep that night wondering why my mother hated me so much. You’re a hold hearted *****! Maybe someone should call CPS on YOU, you unloving ice queen!
Your name says it all. You’re just trying to shove a stick into the bee’s nest, and even so these hysterical posts don’t even make sense. 🤷
 
Trust me, no matter how nonchalant Armor of Light is about therapy, his son is going to see right through it. The son will know that something is up, something is weird, and chances are pretty good he’s not going to open up to the therapist at all.
That’s a really good point. You’re right – I too would have reacted very badly to any suggestion of therapy at that age.
 
You are younger than 13 and a male? There’s no problem if you are a female. You write very well so I’m assuming you’re close to being a teenager which now makes me wonder what you’re doing on this thread. No more sleeping with Grandma. You’re a big boy not a kid.

If you’re saying you are older than a teenager and bunking with grandma, you need to go sleep on the couch or floor.
When widowed grandparents get old enough that they have trouble generating heat, it isn’t uncommon for other people in the family to sleep with them. It doesn’t imply a quasi-marital relationship. It is simply practical.
 
Why CPS and why therapy? When Dad has the boys, he needs to sit down and have THE TALK. He doesn’t even have to bring up son sleeping with Mom. He can talk about what young men can expect when reaching puberty e.g. spontaneous emissions aka wet dreams. He can talk about guys having sex too young and the problems that arise with that. Hopefully, the kid will get the message on his own that he doesn’t want to be in Mom’s bed if and when that happens and will hasten back to his own bunk.

Dad will absolutely be doing what is a Dad’s job by giving THE TALK. The kid should now consider himself one of the guys with Dad and brother and chose to behave like those models.
 
When widowed grandparents get old enough that they have trouble generating heat, it isn’t uncommon for other people in the family to sleep with them. It doesn’t imply a quasi-marital relationship. It is simply practical.
Or you can get them an electric blanket.
 
This wierd. Any woman that says this is good is only going to turn their own sons into mamas boys. Even if it isn’t sexual at all, it is still creating an emotional dependence that is unhealthy. The kid won’t be able to support himself when the time comes to be on his own.

And what mother wants to be in the same bed as her son when puberty hits? Does she think she can comfort him through that process or something? If she does, she is very naive.
 
Why CPS and why therapy? When Dad has the boys, he needs to sit down and have THE TALK. He doesn’t even have to bring up son sleeping with Mom. He can talk about what young men can expect when reaching puberty e.g. spontaneous emissions aka wet dreams. He can talk about guys having sex too young and the problems that arise with that. Hopefully, the kid will get the message on his own that he doesn’t want to be in Mom’s bed if and when that happens and will hasten back to his own bunk.

Dad will absolutely be doing what is a Dad’s job by giving THE TALK. The kid should now consider himself one of the guys with Dad and brother and chose to behave like those models.
You do realize that CPS isn’t a police force ready to swoop down on people? They are also a source of information concerning what does and does not constitute abuse and even how to deal with situations that cause real concern but don’t present the kind of evidence needed for direct intervention. As for therapy, a child who has been through the wringer can benefit from someone to talk to. That is how it is presented: Not “you are broken and wrong, but this person can fix you” but rather “you are being asked to go through something difficult beyond your years, and this person can give you someone discrete to talk to so that you can cope with it with as little angst as possible.” IOW, “this is always hard to go through, but some ways are a lot harder than others. This person is there to help you find the least painful way through.”

Generally speaking, what you are suggesting does not take place with one THE TALK. It takes place with lines of communication being open. It also takes place by Dad finding ways to show a sensitive son or any son who is not going to become the same kind of man as his father that the father does appreciate that the son is still, in fact, a man, and that being a man means being the man God made you to be, rather than shoving yourself into a false mold. For instance, the father might spend time in company with the boy and other grown men who are more like the boy than the father is. If the son sees that his dad respects and admires men who are like the kind of man the son is shaping up to be, then he seees that his dad can be proud of him just the way he is. This is especially a good thing when a young man has a single brother (or even a sister) whose temperament and interests are very much like their dad. “You don’t have to have a lot in common with me to make me very proud” is a good message for a 13 year old to have gotten from his father. It is very common for young men to conclude the opposite, though.
 
It is not appropriate for a loving mother to allow or invite her son to sleep with her. It is not appropriate for a loving father to allow or invite his daughter to sleep with him. Get it?
Honestly, I don’t understand why everyone seems to think that such a situation is always harmful. 🤷 I mean, obviously there are going to be circumstances which wiould make it harmful for a child, as there are with almost anything. And what with this being about a young boy the issue of nocturnal emssions is definitely something to be worried about in case it will traumatize the boy to be in such a situation. But why people seem to think that comparing this to a father and daughter sleeping together as though that will make people more against it doesn’t make any sense. If a parent and opposite-sex teenage child sleep together it does not necessarily mean that any sort of abuse, either emotional or physical is going on. It can be perfectly fine. Though of course it isn’t always which is why it is good that the OP is going to try and address this through talking with his son. I just don’t understand why so many people seem to think that such a situation is automatically abusive or damaging to a child. 🤷
 
Or you can get them an electric blanket.
Actually, a very young or a very frail person ought not have an electric blanket. It can cook them without them knowing it. Read the instructions; it’s on there. Besides, the point is not that Grandma can’t have an electric blanket. The point is that the inadvertant connections an adolescent is prone to make between a parent in his or her prime and a grandparent or other older relative who is in declining health is substantially different. IOW: we’re not talking about putting a pre-pubescent or adolescent child in bed with any adult who’s going to exert undue influence in terms of intiating a sexual situation or providing an emotional history that would carry over into the younger person’s eventual marriage in some kind of adverse way. There gets to be a physical portion of life where that is no longer going to happen.
 
…But why people seem to think that comparing this to a father and daughter sleeping together as though that will make people more against it doesn’t make any sense. If a parent and opposite-sex teenage child sleep together it does not necessarily mean that any sort of abuse, either emotional or physical is going on. It can be perfectly fine. Though of course it isn’t always which is why it is good that the OP is going to try and address this through talking with his son. I just don’t understand why so many people seem to think that such a situation is automatically abusive or damaging to a child. 🤷
It is not that it is automatically abusive. It is that it poses real dangers for covert abuse to take place, the kind of abuse that the past decades have taught us is not at all rare. Some of this can be emotional damage that no one intended, because the adult does not see the situation as the child does. The term “emotional incest” is used, but not because it is sexual. It is because the parent-child relationship can inappropriately slip into being quasi-marital. Even if that is “just” on an emotional level, it can have lasting consequences that adversely change the child’s chances for a normal marital relationship.

It’s kind of like riding a motorcycle without a helmet. It is not automatically going to bash your brains out and it is not going to guarantee that you are going to become a source of some prime young organs to donate. Many people have fond memories of doing it and bridle at the idea that they ought not do it. Still, the number of people who lost their lives or irreversibly changed their lives because the worst that can happen actually did happen and the impact their decision had on the lives around them makes it irresponsible to go without the helmet.

Not a great analogy, but you get the idea. It is not automatically damaging for a parent to sleep with an opposite sex pre-pubescent or pubescent child, but the magnitude and seriousness of what can go wrong outweighs the good accomplished. It is not surprising when those closest to the decision don’t see it this way, it is more sensible to accomplish the desired good in other ways.
 
You do realize that CPS isn’t a police force ready to swoop down on people? They are also a source of information concerning what does and does not constitute abuse and even how to deal with situations that cause real concern but don’t present the kind of evidence needed for direct intervention. As for therapy, a child who has been through the wringer can benefit from someone to talk to. That is how it is presented: Not “you are broken and wrong, but this person can fix you” but rather “you are being asked to go through something difficult beyond your years, and this person can give you someone discrete to talk to so that you can cope with it with as little angst as possible.” IOW, “this is always hard to go through, but some ways are a lot harder than others. This person is there to help you find the least painful way through.”

Generally speaking, what you are suggesting does not take place with one THE TALK. It takes place with lines of communication being open. It also takes place by Dad finding ways to show a sensitive son or any son who is not going to become the same kind of man as his father that the father does appreciate that the son is still, in fact, a man, and that being a man means being the man God made you to be, rather than shoving yourself into a false mold. For instance, the father might spend time in company with the boy and other grown men who are more like the boy than the father is. If the son sees that his dad respects and admires men who are like the kind of man the son is shaping up to be, then he seees that his dad can be proud of him just the way he is. This is especially a good thing when a young man has a single brother (or even a sister) whose temperament and interests are very much like their dad. “You don’t have to have a lot in common with me to make me very proud” is a good message for a 13 year old to have gotten from his father. It is very common for young men to conclude the opposite, though.
When you have two teenage sons, it is time for THE TALK. They need to hear what is going on with their bodies from their DAD. It is what good DADS do. He’s 13, it’s time. And he needs to hear this now because he is a young man and he should not be in his mother’s bed.

CPS…where I live, the agency is REQUIRED to answer any call allegeding abuse. The idea that the kid (13) is in his Mom’s bed every night is a red light. No one knows if he wants to be there. He isn’t talking about it to Dad. According to Dad, he has other problems. She, the mother, is making him into the little man of the family. He may not feel comfortable saying no to her. Maybe, on some level, he knows it is wrong but doesn’t know how to tell her “no” because it will upset her. Apparently, accoding to Dad, she can be pretty manipulative.

Mom is way out of line regarding this. It must end now. It certainly cannot continue for the reasons all have stated the main one being he is entering puberty which means he’s a young man and SHOULD BE OUT OF MOMMY’S BED!

Let THE TALK commence and see if the kid can stand up for himself.
 
It is not that it is automatically abusive. It is that it poses real dangers for covert abuse to take place, the kind of abuse that the past decades have taught us is not at all rare. Some of this can be emotional damage that no one intended, because the adult does not see the situation as the child does. The term “emotional incest” is used, but not because it is sexual. It is because the parent-child relationship can inappropriately slip into being quasi-marital. Even if that is “just” on an emotional level, it can have lasting consequences that adversely change the child’s chances for a normal marital relationship.

It’s kind of like riding a motorcycle without a helmet. It is not automatically going to bash your brains out and it is not going to guarantee that you are going to become a source of some prime young organs to donate. Many people have fond memories of doing it and bridle at the idea that they ought not do it. Still, the number of people who lost their lives or irreversibly changed their lives because the worst that can happen actually did happen and the impact their decision had on the lives around them makes it irresponsible to go without the helmet.

Not a great analogy, but you get the idea. It is not automatically damaging for a parent to sleep with an opposite sex pre-pubescent or pubescent child, but the magnitude and seriousness of what can go wrong outweighs the good accomplished. It is not surprising when those closest to the decision don’t see it this way, it is more sensible to accomplish the desired good in other ways.
Precisely. I know in my family all but one of the women had been sexually abused by a family member (father, uncle, or grandfather) and it all started with “harmless” things such as co-sleeping. It isn’t automatically a bad situation, but sometimes it is and it is a precaution you should take. Maybe I am a little jaded due to my life experiences, but people should ere on the side of caution.
 
Precisely. I know in my family all but one of the women had been sexually abused by a family member (father, uncle, or grandfather) and it all started with “harmless” things such as co-sleeping. It isn’t automatically a bad situation, but sometimes it is and it is a precaution you should take. Maybe I am a little jaded due to my life experiences, but people should ere on the side of caution.
Your family’s experiences are directly relevant to the conversation. Experience is what teaches where this kind of arrangement can go very wrong.

Also, it isn’t just male members of the family who do this. I would go so far as to guess, though, that just as the males by far outnumber females in sexually inappropriate behavior, females far outnumber males in emotionally inappropriate behavior, behavior that the perpetrator rationalizes was “consensual” or that the child “wanted”, but that really louses up the kid’s life for years to come.
 
It is not that it is automatically abusive. It is that it poses real dangers for covert abuse to take place, the kind of abuse that the past decades have taught us is not at all rare. Some of this can be emotional damage that no one intended, because the adult does not see the situation as the child does. The term “emotional incest” is used, but not because it is sexual. It is because the parent-child relationship can inappropriately slip into being quasi-marital. Even if that is “just” on an emotional level, it can have lasting consequences that adversely change the child’s chances for a normal marital relationship.

It’s kind of like riding a motorcycle without a helmet. It is not automatically going to bash your brains out and it is not going to guarantee that you are going to become a source of some prime young organs to donate. Many people have fond memories of doing it and bridle at the idea that they ought not do it. Still, the number of people who lost their lives or irreversibly changed their lives because the worst that can happen actually did happen and the impact their decision had on the lives around them makes it irresponsible to go without the helmet.

Not a great analogy, but you get the idea. It is not automatically damaging for a parent to sleep with an opposite sex pre-pubescent or pubescent child, but the magnitude and seriousness of what can go wrong outweighs the good accomplished. It is not surprising when those closest to the decision don’t see it this way, it is more sensible to accomplish the desired good in other ways.
Of course I agree with that, like I said, there are definitely circumstances in which it has been very damaging to people because of the particular emotional/physical situation, but some of the responses here make it sound as though they think it will always be harmful, which just isn’t true, thats all I was trying to point out, many of the responses here are overgeneralizations and thats part of the reason that such high emotions were seen on the thread. 🙂
 
Honestly, I don’t understand why everyone seems to think that such a situation is always harmful. 🤷 I mean, obviously there are going to be circumstances which wiould make it harmful for a child, as there are with almost anything. And what with this being about a young boy the issue of nocturnal emssions is definitely something to be worried about in case it will traumatize the boy to be in such a situation. But why people seem to think that comparing this to a father and daughter sleeping together as though that will make people more against it doesn’t make any sense. If a parent and opposite-sex teenage child sleep together it does not necessarily mean that any sort of abuse, either emotional or physical is going on. It can be perfectly fine. Though of course it isn’t always which is why it is good that the OP is going to try and address this through talking with his son. I just don’t understand why so many people seem to think that such a situation is automatically abusive or damaging to a child. 🤷
Seriously? Would you want to be a young kid who had his first nocturnal emission sleeping in his Mom’s bed? He already has some difficulties and you don’t think that event will add to them???
 
Of course I agree with that, like I said, there are definitely circumstances in which it has been very damaging to people because of the particular emotional/physical situation, but some of the responses here make it sound as though they think it will always be harmful, which just isn’t true, thats all I was trying to point out, many of the responses here are overgeneralizations and thats part of the reason that such high emotions were seen on the thread. 🙂
Yeah, but their point is that you can’t get on the motorcycle and know whether you’re going to have a wreck this time or not. You don’t get in a wreck every time, true, but there is no excuse for driving around without a helmet or a seatbelt as if you knew in advance when there was going to be a problem. When the problem arises, it is already too late, that is their point.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top