Ex-wife sleeps with 13 year old son in the same bed

[robotsarecool]

As someone who has had the misfortune of having incest in her family, I have insight many may lack. Generally sexual abuse of children does not start out of the blue. There is generally a build up to it (commonly called grooming). I don’t know what is happening in this situation, but the situation is fishy. Also I know that sometimes after divorce, sometimes parents end up having one of their children be a “surrogate spouse”. I have seen this happen as well. Also with a child of the age of puberty, hormones are raging and it can lead to confusing situations even with family members. Sometimes siblings end up “messing around” (this happened with my husbands two younger siblings), sometimes children develop sexual feelings for family members especially when you are sharing a room or bed.

To repeat some of my old points. When you are sexually maturing, it isn’t a good idea for to share beds especially with someone of another gender. My cousins ex-husband co-slept with his sister while going through puberty and he ended up sexually abusing her (she was 10, he was 13)… it may have started as purely innocent and siblings showing affection, but it ended up bad. Also I have had it happen in my family where co-sleeping ended up in the parent sexually abusing the child. It happens whether people like to admit it or not.

 

[aicirt]

When widowed grandparents get old enough that they have trouble generating heat, it isn’t uncommon for other people in the family to sleep with them. It doesn’t imply a quasi-marital relationship. It is simply practical.

Please tell me you are not sleeping with your grandmother.

 

[thewanderer]

Seriously? Would you want to be a young kid who had his first nocturnal emission sleeping in his Mom’s bed? He already has some difficulties and you don’t think that event will add to them???

I think you misunderstood my post completely. That was the one factor that I brought up explicitly as being a likely problem. Please take the tme to understand what I am actually saying.

 

[aicirt]

I think you misunderstood my post completely. That was the one factor that I brought up explicitly as being a likely problem. Please take the tme to understand what I am actually saying.

I understood what you were saying. There’s no shaving the issue. Kid that age belong in their own beds and Mom is wrong inviting him into hers. This was not a one night thing. This is their sleeping habits. It is a morally wrong habit and it needs to end.

 

[jimmy]

Of course I agree with that, like I said, there are definitely circumstances in which it has been very damaging to people because of the particular emotional/physical situation, but some of the responses here make it sound as though they think it will always be harmful, which just isn’t true, thats all I was trying to point out, many of the responses here are overgeneralizations and thats part of the reason that such high emotions were seen on the thread.

I think it is always harmful, unless there is some extraordinary circumstances that change the situation. But even with that in mind, the object should be to be sleeping in seperate beds within a short period of time. To be sleeping in the same bed for six years is strange, to say the least. What is going to happen when he has to go out and make decisions without mom there to comfort him? What is he going to do when he has to make decisions that mom might not like? What is going to happen when independence is thrust upon him after being so dependent on mom? And what is he going to think of mom when he realizes that she is the problem? She is creating a personality disorder.

 

[thewanderer]

Yeah, but their point is that you can’t get on the motorcycle and know whether you’re going to have a wreck this time or not. You don’t get in a wreck every time, true, but there is no excuse for driving around without a helmet or a seatbelt as if you knew in advance when there was going to be a problem. When the problem arises, it is already too late, that is their point.

I still don’t see a problem with it if it is short-term and if the parent is truly in touch with their child and aware of where they stand emotionally. Or if there are more than just the two in the bed etc. Yes, it is still something to be very careful about as it is possible for a parent to be mistaken about whether or not their child is becoming emotionally attatched to them in an unhealthy way. The emotional abuse might be harder for a parent to detect/avoid, so they would have to be very careful to ensure that it isn’t happening. Physical abuse is pretty easy to recognize and avoid, so I don’t think a good parent would need to worry about that as much.

To use your analogy, riding a motorcycle can lead to deadly crashes. However, this does not mean that no one should ever ride a motorcycle, rather it means that they should take the appropriate precautions, wear a helmet, drive defensively etc.

Anyway, this is all getting off-topic because I think its pretty clear that in the OP’s case there are enough worrying signs that it is something that should be addressed. So no disagreements from me there.

 

[thewanderer]

I understood what you were saying. There’s no shaving the issue. Kid that age belong in their own beds and Mom is wrong inviting him into hers. This was not a one night thing. This is their sleeping habits. It is a morally wrong habit and it needs to end.

So people in other countries where the whole family sleeps in one big bed are sinning? Come on now, you don’t seriously believe that, do you?

 

[jimmy]

I still don’t see a problem with it if it is short-term and if the parent is truly in touch with their child and aware of where they stand emotionally. Or if there are more than just the two in the bed etc. Yes, it is still something to be very careful about as it is possible for a parent to be mistaken about whether or not their child is becoming emotionally attatched to them in an unhealthy way. The emotional abuse might be harder for a parent to detect/avoid, so they would have to be very careful to ensure that it isn’t happening. Physical abuse is pretty easy to recognize and avoid, so I don’t think a good parent would need to worry about that as much.

To use your analogy, riding a motorcycle can lead to deadly crashes. However, this does not mean that no one should ever ride a motorcycle, rather it means that they should take the appropriate precautions, wear a helmet, drive defensively etc.

Anyway, this is all getting off-topic because I think its pretty clear that in the OP’s case there are enough worrying signs that it is something that should be addressed. So no disagreements from me there.

Despite what might be seen in scifi movies, people can’t read minds. You don’t know the emotional state of another person unless they tell you, and even then you probably don’t know.

 

[thewanderer]

I think it is always harmful, unless there is some extraordinary circumstances that change the situation.

Then you agree with me that it isn’t always wrong.

But even with that in mind, the object should be to be sleeping in seperate beds within a short period of time. To be sleeping in the same bed for six years is strange, to say the least. What is going to happen when he has to go out and make decisions without mom there to comfort him? What is he going to do when he has to make decisions that mom might not like? What is going to happen when independence is thrust upon him after being so dependent on mom? And what is he going to think of mom when he realizes that she is the problem? She is creating a personality disorder.

I agree that this particular situation has signs that are troubling, as well as that sleeping together ought to only occur short-term unless there are extraordinary circumstances involved, and even then ought only to be allowed in certain situations and circumstances.

 

[thewanderer]

Despite what might be seen in scifi movies, people can’t read minds. You don’t know the emotional state of another person unless they tell you, and even then you probably don’t know.

Where did I say they have to read minds? If one is knowledgable enough on the subject and has the right knack it **is **possible to have reasonable certainty about someones emotional state, even if they are not telling you outright. Are you really claiming that there are no circumstances or scenarios when we can be certain about the emotional state of another? That seems like a very unrealistic position to take.

 

[jimmy]

Then you agree with me that it isn’t always wrong.

It is like a human law in thomistic philosophy. In 99.9 percent of cases it is true, but certain unknown circumstances might require the person to break the law because to follow the letter would violate the spirit of the law. Similarly in this type of situation there might be unknown circumstances that indicate the common sense law shouldn’t be followed in a particular situation because to follow it would violate the spirit of it.

 

[thewanderer]

It is like a human law in thomistic philosophy. In 99.9 percent of cases it is true, but certain unknown circumstances might require the person to break the law because to follow the letter would violate the spirit of the law. Similarly in this type of situation there might be unknown circumstances that indicate the common sense law shouldn’t be followed in a particular situation because to follow it would violate the spirit of it.

I think we will just have to agree to disagree on the frequency of acceptable circumstances arising for allowing short-term co-sleeping of older children.

 

[jimmy]

Where did I say they have to read minds? If one is knowledgable enough on the subject and has the right knack it **is **possible to have reasonable certainty about someones emotional state, even if they are not telling you outright. Are you really claiming that there are no circumstances or scenarios when we can be certain about the emotional state of another? That seems like a very unrealistic position to take.

You may be able to point out certain aspects of their emotional state, but you can’t comprehend it. You can’t have a comprehensive understanding of their emotional state, especially without them being open about it. Consequently it is dangerous to assume that you do.

 

[EasterJoy]

Please tell me you are not sleeping with your grandmother.

No, and when my MIL was alive and lived with us, she never slept with our children. I am only saying that I do think there gets to be a point where a sexual or quasi-marital situation between opposite sex relatives sleeping in privacy from the rest of the family ceases to be a consideration.

 

[Boccherini]

Certainly there is something odd in this situation, in my opinion mainly because it suggests that the boy isn’t as emotionally secure as he should be. I think that is more worrisome than the thing itself (i.e. sleeping in the same bed as his mother). It’s very overblown to suggest incest at this point, in my opinion. Mother-son incest is rare, and besides, it usually starts before adolescence anyway.

I find it amusing that people think the problem here is that he might have a nocturnal emission and be ‘scarred’ by the experience. That might be embarrassing for a day or two - but it might even be a blessing, if it gets him into his own bed. Presumably he doesn’t sleep naked, so the mother might not notice, or, if she does, she should pretend not to.

It is good if someone has informed him that he might begin having NE’s, of course.

A 13-year-old boy hasn’t necessarily even started puberty yet, and even if he has, a 13-year-old is still a child.

 

[thewanderer]

You may be able to point out certain aspects of their emotional state, but you can’t comprehend it. You can’t have a comprehensive understanding of their emotional state, especially without them being open about it. Consequently it is dangerous to assume that you do.

Yes, it certainly can be dangerous, it is possible to convince yourself you know what’s going on even if you don’t actually. However that doesn’t change anything that I’ve said.

 

[EasterJoy]

Certainly there is something odd in this situation, in my opinion mainly because it suggests that the boy isn’t as emotionally secure as he should be. I think that is more worrisome than the thing itself (i.e. sleeping in the same bed as his mother). It’s very overblown to suggest incest at this point, in my opinion. Mother-son incest is rare, and besides, it usually starts before adolescence anyway.

I find it amusing that people think the problem here is that he might have a nocturnal emission and be ‘scarred’ by the experience. That might be embarrassing for a day or two - but it might even be a blessing, if it gets him into his own bed. Presumably he doesn’t sleep naked, so the mother might not notice, or, if she does, she should pretend not to.

It is good if someone has informed him that he might begin having NE’s, of course.

A 13-year-old boy hasn’t necessarily even started puberty yet, and even if he has, a 13-year-old is still a child.

I have 13 year old boys, and they and their peers at school are all well into puberty…hair on the legs, the bodies changing, gaining an inch or so of height a week, the usual signs.

Physical incest between mothers and sons may be rare, yes, but emotional incest (that is, a quasi-marital relationship, although not necessarily an “emotionally sexual” one) is not rare by any stretch of the imagination, especially when Mom has no emotional marriage of her own. This is a particular concern if the boy is not emotionally strong himself.

But yes, the bed situation is hardly the only concern. Emotional incest does not require co-sleeping arrangements. Having said that, there is a practical limit to the OPs influence over the mother-son relationship.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

The young MAN is 13 years old. Wet dreams are GOING to happen. He is going to have a sexual dream and ejaculate spontaneously. Now place him in his mother’s bed. It just takes ONCE - how mortifying would that be? What would he say? What would SHE say? Would they just avoid speaking of it? If so, what does he internalize about that?? The SHAME, the embarrassment! Horrifying! He probably wouldn’t go back to his mom’s bed, but the damage that it would do…It only takes ONCE.

The people that are arguing that this is not necessarily harmful are ignoring the elephant in the room, which is the sexual development of the OP’s son. This sharing of a bed is INAPPROPRIATE for a 13 year old boy. Especially with his own mother.

 

[mafh]

It is not that it is automatically abusive. It is that it poses real dangers for covert abuse to take place,.

Exactly. The way I see it, it’s like if you have a weird mole on your skin. It looks suspicious, but it could be nothing. You don’t have the expertise to be sure, so you have a doctor look at it and give a diagnosis. If it’s nothing, you just don’t worry about it anymore. If it’s something, then you go for further treatment. I see this situation the same way (and actually, we’ve already heard an expert’s opinion on this thread). So, yes it’s a red flag, but red flags don’t mean that something is wrong, just that it is something worthy of further investigation.

 

[EasterJoy]

The young MAN is 13 years old. Wet dreams are GOING to happen. He is going to have a sexual dream and ejaculate spontaneously. Now place him in his mother’s bed. It just takes ONCE - how mortifying would that be? What would he say? What would SHE say? Would they just avoid speaking of it? If so, what does he internalize about that?? The SHAME, the embarrassment! Horrifying! He probably wouldn’t go back to his mom’s bed, but the damage that it would do…It only takes ONCE.

The people that are arguing that this is not necessarily harmful are ignoring the elephant in the room, which is the sexual development of the OP’s son. This sharing of a bed is INAPPROPRIATE for a 13 year old boy. Especially with his own mother.

His dad might explain that this is coming eventually, it is coming without warning, and although it is nothing to be ashamed of and no reflection of the state of a man’s thoughts, it is thought by the hindsite of most men a thing best to go through both matter-of-factly and in relative privacy.

That information alone might change the young man’s mind about the arrangement, without hysterics. He’ll just know his dad is looking out for him in ways that his mother wouldn’t be able to do.