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TheLittleLady
Guest
Because if one questions the actions of Mr Trump, they gotta be pro-choice?
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MikeInVA
Guest
2% is well within the margin or error for most political surveys, so there was no statistically relevant change.
Mark121359
Well-known member
Trump made 29 false claims? I wonder how many Obama made over his two terms? I can name two downright lies he made that are still causing serious repercussions for numerous Americans.
“If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan!”
“If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor!”
Umm…yeah right!
“If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan!”
“If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor!”
Umm…yeah right!
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dvdjs
Guest
Were these lies? What is the evidence for that?
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TheLittleLady
Guest
The Affordable Care Act did not require one single person to change their health care plan. It did not require anyone to change doctors.
What did happen is that insurance companies changed plans, doctors withdrew from participation with various insurers. People were then either unhappy with the changes to their plan or unhappy that their doc did not accept blah blah plan.
President Obama, nor any US President, was not a dictator who could force private businesses to stop operating their businesses.
I know this makes for an EXCELLENT sound byte, however, it is disingenuous.
What did happen is that insurance companies changed plans, doctors withdrew from participation with various insurers. People were then either unhappy with the changes to their plan or unhappy that their doc did not accept blah blah plan.
President Obama, nor any US President, was not a dictator who could force private businesses to stop operating their businesses.
I know this makes for an EXCELLENT sound byte, however, it is disingenuous.
Mark121359
Well-known member
You can paint this whatever way you want. Obamacare is a catastrophic failure. Worst president in the history of America…with Carter right there with him.
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dvdjs
Guest
One can. But it would be better for all if we painted the truth using objective facts.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
No. If your employer dropped its plan and you went on the exchanges, quite possibly you had to change provider chains, including doctors. Same if you were one of the ones put on Medicaid. Not all doctors take that. Or if the increase in premiums simply drove you to the exchanges, you had to take whatever company was there. In many cases there was no choice of provider.
So it was simply false that you “could keep your doctor” upon your own volition.
So it was simply false that you “could keep your doctor” upon your own volition.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
That was the “fault” of the employer, not of the ACA.
One makes the choice to go on Medicaid, no one is “put there” against their will.
Yet still this was your choice, you could have paid the higher premiums.
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dvdjs
Guest
How was that action mandated by the Act? There are all sorts of reasons why some one may have had to change doctors. Do people honestly fell that Obama was talking about all such contingencies, or just about what is required by the Act?
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Ridgerunner
Guest
No. Obamacare made employment-based plans much more expensive, particularly for small businesses. It wasn’t the employers’ “fault”.
Sort of, but not really. If you didn’t qualify for the exchange that was your only choice. But you’re right, people could have declined the coverage entirely and had none.
Absolutely. Justice Roberts was right in saying it’s a tax. If you don’t want to pay it, you can move out of the country. Similarly, if you didn’t want to pay or couldn’t pay the much higher premiums if you couldn’t qualify for a subsidy, you could do without.
Obamacare is not a healthcare plan or an insurance plan. It’s an income redistribution plan. And that’s what it does.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
The insurance companies were free to choose not to raise prices, the employers were free to decide to ante up more for employee coverage. These may not have been palatable options, but, the option was there.
The Affordable Care Act did not remove anyone from their plan nor physician.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
And people were free to have no insurance at all. That may not have been a palatable option, but the option is there.
Not in those words, but it removed many from their plan and/or physician. Gruber even admitted that the “you can keep your doctor” line was untrue and known to be untrue when Obamacare was passed.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Well, as I am daily encouraged to do, consider it Official Presidential Hyperbole.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
Hyperbole is one thing. Lying to the public to hide the fact that most are going to pay a lot more for health insurance or be forced to do without it entirely so some would get it for free, is much more than mere hyperbole. It’s not only lying, it’s theft by deception.
"Gruber said that “the stupidity of the American voter” made it important for him and Democrats to hide Obamacare’s true costs from the public. “That was really, really critical for the thing to pass,” said Gruber.
It’s that the law’s complex system of insurance regulation is a way of concealing from voters what Obamacare really is: a huge redistribution of wealth…"
ACA Architect: 'The Stupidity Of The American Voter' Led Us To Hide Obamacare's True Costs From The Public
You’ve got to hand it to MIT economist Jonathan Gruber. The guy dubbed the “Obamacare architect” is a viral YouTube sensation. A few months back, he was caught on tape admitting that Obamacare doesn’t provide subsidies for federally-run insurance exchanges; the topic of a new case before the...
www.forbes.com
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Interesting how when my guy does it, excusable, even commendable exaggeration.
When the enemy does it, liar liar pants on fire.
When the enemy does it, liar liar pants on fire.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
Trump’s hyperbolic statements cost me nothing. Obama’s cost plenty, and all by telling a known lie. That adds theft to the lie. If Obama had said “Hey, I’m going to tax a lot of you middle class people in order to heavily subsidize some other middle class people that I hope will become dependent on it and vote Democrat to keep it. And a lot of you will lose your insurance.” would have been fine if people had supported that. But he didn’t. He said health insurance would cost less for everyone, that there was no tax involved, and that one could keep one’s doctor and plan. None of it was true, and he knew it.
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