Exclusive: Carson claimed West Point 'scholarship' but never applied

[Jeanne_S]

It seems to me that lack of political experience is a fair enough criticism of Ben Carson. There are negotiating skills that make politicians who have honed them more effective in bringing about the goals that they have set out for themselves. A comparison of the way that Bill Clinton was able to deal with Congress and move things forward compared to how a rather junior politician such as Obama has performed very poorly in that regard demonstrate that there are definite skills involved, and experience is an asset.

Another possible criticism could be made by comparing Carson to Reagan. Reagan had spent a lifetime studying the communist system and came to the job prepared to do battle for the American way. He had a vision and a reason for wanting the presidency. While Carson certainly appreciates the America that has allowed him to rise to the top, it is unclear of what his unique vision is that he requires the office of presidency in order to put them forth and bring that dream to fruition.

Those kinds of criticisms are authentic criticisms of Ben Carson. These are the kinds of arguments and criticisms that any potential president needs to counter in order to be deemed worthy and an asset to the office of presidency.

So far the arguments about West Point and pyramids are as trivial as the people who are putting forth this kind of fluff.
It is rather pathetic actually to see how low and inane political discussion in America has descended. These are non serious discussions of a people who no longer take the role of America in the world seriously.

Well said,Darryl!

 

[Jeanne_S]

very good points Darryl. and very trivial the nitpicking of Ben Carson and concern for his inexperience considering what we have had to endure with Obama and the depths he has brought our country down and will continue to do so until he leaves office.

And this!

 

[Darryl1958]

The people leading the charge appear to be conservatives:

Glad that everybody contributing their snark against Ben Carson here now have joined the conservative team.

And Politico and National Review, well that is a potato/potato comparison, isn’t it?

I mean, seriously…

That is what is lacking in these discussions
Seriousness.

 

[Peter_Plato]

Darryl, you’re certainly free to have your own thoughts and opinions. Some of us may disagree with your assertion though about these points being trivial. It’s not difficult to consider a strong argument that these comments by Carson are representative of who he is as a person, as a thinker, and as he would be as a president.

Except that the reporting on the comments largely misrepresents or seeks to put his comments in the worst light possible to discredit or marginalize Carson. In that sense, they are unfair.

Take, for example, his comments that are the subject of this thread. He didn’t claim to have applied at West Point and he never claimed he was given a scholarship. Yet, those are the two points that Politico and other media sites sought to hang on him (or hang him on.)

Neither of those were actually “representative” of his actual words. They were distortions.

Most of his other comments - as mindlessly “re-presented” - attempt to cast him in the worst light possible. In fact, if you read through the comment boxes on sites that traffic in this kind of thing you begin to get a sense of the audience being pandered to and why that kind of “reporting” takes the form it does. These aren’t attempts to inform, they are determinably attempts to bait the rabid segment of the population that frequents those sites or watches those programs and to reinforce whatever “belief systems” - if they can be called that - are in the majority there. It is rhetorical ideological cheerleading with no sense of balance or truth whatsoever.

 

[Good_Tidings]

Glad that everybody contributing their snark against Ben Carson here now have joined the conservative team.

And Politico and National Review, well that is a potato/potato comparison, isn’t it?

I mean, seriously…

That is what is lacking in these discussions
Seriousness.

You don’t have to join the team to call the plays. My point is that it is not the liberal media pushing this story, it’s mainly conservative leaning publications. Joe Scarborough took time out of his Hilary bashing show to lambast Ben Carson this morning. It was pretty brutal. It appears the Republican establishment isn’t that thrilled with Ben. Physician heal thyself.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Except that the reporting on the comments largely misrepresents or seeks to put his comments in the worst light possible to discredit or marginalize Carson. In that sense, they are unfair.

Take, for example, his comments that are the subject of this thread. He didn’t claim to have applied at West Point and he never claimed he was given a scholarship. Yet, those are the two points that Politico and other media sites sought to hang on him (or hang him on.)

Neither of those were actually “representative” of his actual words. They were distortions.

Most of his other comments - as mindlessly “re-presented” - attempt to cast him in the worst light possible. In fact, if you read through the comment boxes on sites that traffic in this kind of thing you begin to get a sense of the audience being pandered to and why that kind of “reporting” takes the form it does. These aren’t attempts to inform, they are determinably attempts to bait the rabid segment of the population that frequents those sites or watches those programs and to reinforce whatever “belief systems” - if they can be called that - are in the majority there. It is rhetorical ideological cheerleading with no sense of balance or truth whatsoever.

Amen!As they say the pen is mightier than the sword…

 

[DeniseNY]

breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/11/09/carsons-right-in-2008-the-media-ignored-more-than-30-lies-in-obamas-bio/

. Fearing what they would discover, the DC Media stopped vetting Obama’s biography altogether. How do we know this? Because it was only after Obama was elected president that more than 30 additional inaccuracies were discovered.

I’m not asking you believe me. But you can certainly believe one of Obama’s biggest fans and protectors: BuzzFeed editor-in-chief Ben Smith. Of course this was written more than 3 years after Obama was sworn into office:

Maraniss’s Barack Obama: The Story punctures two sets of falsehoods: The family tales Obama passed on, unknowing; and the stories Obama made up. The 672-page book closes before Obama enters law school, and Maraniss has promised another volume, but by its conclusion I counted 38 instances in which the biographer convincingly disputes significant elements of Obama’s own story of his life and his family history.

 

[Darryl1958]

You don’t have to join the team to call the plays. My point is that it is not the liberal media pushing this story, it’s mainly conservative leaning publications. Joe Scarborough took time out of his Hilary bashing show to lambast Ben Carson this morning. It was pretty brutal. It appears the Republican establishment isn’t that thrilled with Ben. Physician heal thyself.

Okay Good Tidings.
Have it your way.
You are all patsies of the vast right wing conspiracy.

 

[Crusaderbear]

The media has forgotten their job is to report, not interprete. They believe Americans cannot decide anything based solely on facts, they must interprete for us and tell us what to do. If anyone can think up a way to put a stop to this, THAT would be a very useful post!

 

[Convert1]

Let’s face it. The American people are once again faced with a dismal lot to elect as a president, in both parties. This report is another example of the multitude of reports that totally defocus Americans from our real issues. (20 trillion dollars of debt, a mess in the middle east that we still seem to be involved in, absence of jobs, a divisive social structure, just to name a few)
We don’t see reports on these issues and exactly where candidates stand. Of course not. That would be informative, credible, journalism.
Instead, we are blasted with sensationalism and rhetoric about emails, and scholarships, and all in the name of providing insight into a candidate’s integrity?? I find this intellectually insulting. I don’t care about West Point, or emails, or personal traffic tickets, or other such nonsense. I want to know how they plan to implement a strategy to remedy some of the pending issues that are on the verge of ruining this country.
When we stop listening to this propaganda and demand to hear exactly where these candidates stand on fiscal and social issues, we might…just might be able to come up with some semblance of options for voters.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Except that the reporting on the comments largely misrepresents or seeks to put his comments in the worst light possible to discredit or marginalize Carson. In that sense, they are unfair.

Take, for example, his comments that are the subject of this thread. He didn’t claim to have applied at West Point and he never claimed he was given a scholarship. Yet, those are the two points that Politico and other media sites sought to hang on him (or hang him on.)

Neither of those were actually “representative” of his actual words. They were distortions.

West Point offers the “full scholarship” to everyone who applies and is granted admission. We know that what Carson claims is not true because he never applied to West Point, was never granted admission to West Point, and so no offer of a “full scholarship” was ever extended to him by West Point. It doesn’t matter whether or not Carson said he applied or was granted admission. What matters is that none of the things required for such an offer to be extended (applying and being granted admission) actually happened and he was not made such an offer.

What he is saying now is that he didn’t mean what he wrote in multiple books and has said multiple times while campaigning and he’s hoping people are gullible enough to believe there isn’t a big enough difference between what he has been claiming for years and what he is saying now that the facts are out to call it lying. I don’t think you have to be a neurosurgeon to understand the rather large difference between a supposed offer (which is also in question) to talk to someone about the application process vs. actually being granted admission and offered a “full scholarship.” You can’t turn down an offer that was never extended to you.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Right. Is that why 51% of Republicans think that President Obama is not an American citizen?

Better check your source. That percentage is way off.

 

[Vanny]

What about all of Obama’s and Hilary Clinton’s whoppers that the press let’s slide by all the time?

Ben Carson is a threat to the left. He doesn’t follow their narrative.

 

[Peter_Plato]

They prove that his claim is not true. West Point offers the “full scholarship” to everyone who applies and is granted admission. We know that what Carson claims is not true because he never applied to West Point, was never granted admission to West Point, and so no offer of a “full scholarship” was ever extended to him by West Point. You can’t turn down an offer that was never extended to you. You also don’t have to be a neurosurgeon to understand the difference between a supposed offer (which is also in question) to talk to someone about the application process vs. actually being granted admission and offered a “full scholarship.” It doesn’t matter whether or not Carson said he applied. What matters is that he did not do the first thing required in the admissions process in order to ultimately be offered a “full scholarship” if admission is granted; applying.

No, we don’t KNOW this is the case, at all. You are pretty much making up most of what you have written. That the offer to attend is often extended to individuals being sought out before they apply has been substantiated over and over again. The offer of a scholarship isn’t contingent upon an application – everyone who applies gets the full scholarship if accepted. That would mean if an offer has been extended by someone with the authority to do so, the scholarship would pretty much automatically follow.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

No, we don’t KNOW this is the case, at all. You are pretty much making up most of what you have written. That the offer to attend is often extended to individuals being sought out before they apply has been substantiated over and over again. The offer of a scholarship isn’t contingent upon an application – everyone who applies gets the full scholarship if accepted. That would mean if an offer has been extended by someone with the authority to do so, the scholarship would pretty much automatically follow.

Not true. Anyone can say that there is a scholarship if you are granted admission, but the scholarship can only be offered by West Point. The application must be submitted with the backing of someone eligible to nominate the applicant for admission. No such eligible person nominated Carson, no application was submitted, and he was never offered a scholarship by West Point. The truth is that some suggested that he should apply and he chose not to. That is quite a departure from his claim that he turned down an actual offer to attend on scholarship; an offer that can only be made by West Point.

 

[Peter_Plato]

Not true. Anyone can say that there is a scholarship if you are granted admission, but the scholarship can only be offered by West Point. The application must be submitted with the backing of someone eligible to nominate the applicant for admission. No such eligible person nominated Carson, no application was submitted, and he was never offered a scholarship by West Point. The truth is that some suggested that he should apply and he chose not to. That is quite a departure from his claim that he turned down an actual offer to attend on scholarship; an offer that can only be made by West Point.

Well, it’s your word against his, then.

He claims General Westmoreland.

You?

Emperor Napoleon, I suppose.

That would be too close to call. A draw, then.

Or, we can wait for the instant replay.

None available?

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Well, it’s your word against his, then.

He claims General Westmoreland.

You?

Emperor Napoleon, I suppose.

That would be too close to call. A draw, then.

Or, we can wait for the instant replay.

None available?

General Westmoreland was not eligible to nominate anyone for West Point admission since he was neither a Congressman, Senator, Vice President, or Secretary of the Army. What he supposedly offered was an appointment to discuss the application process with someone at West Point which is very different from being offered admission and a scholarship. This isn’t a matter of me vs. Ben Carson. Its a matter of the facts vs. Ben Carson. Take this supposed offer of an appointment from Westmoreland for example. Carson claims that it was made while having dinner with him in Detroit on Memorial Day in 1969. The facts are that Westmoreland was in Washington DC, did not go to Detroit on that day or any other day near Memorial Day, and certainly did not have dinner with Carson on that day. Whether or not any such offer was ever made is not known since the only man who could corroborate it is dead, but we know it definitely did not happen the way Carson claims it did if it happened at all.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Not true. Anyone can say that there is a scholarship if you are granted admission, but the scholarship can only be offered by West Point. The application must be submitted with the backing of someone eligible to nominate the applicant for admission. No such eligible person nominated Carson, no application was submitted, and he was never offered a scholarship by West Point. The truth is that some suggested that he should apply and he chose not to. That is quite a departure from his claim that he turned down an actual offer to attend on scholarship; an offer that can only be made by West Point.

Why are you perseverating on this issue?You do know,that your man,Obama lied numerous times in both his books.Problem is no one called him out until after the election.even Ploitico has had to walk back their accusations,admitting they were false.Really let it go already!

 

[Good_Tidings]

What about all of Obama’s and Hilary Clinton’s whoppers that the press let’s slide by all the time?

Ben Carson is a threat to the left. He doesn’t follow their narrative.

It appears he is more of a threat to the Republican establishment. I can’t imagine a debate between him and Hillary if she is nominated.

 

[DeniseNY]

What about all of Obama’s and Hilary Clinton’s whoppers that the press let’s slide by all the time?

Ben Carson is a threat to the left. He doesn’t follow their narrative.